Where Is Our Sack, Khyber?

[unionyes]

Got online last night (a miracle in and of itself lately) and ran a couple toons, my new Cleric 3 and my Fighter 7.

Got into two pugs. On my fighter I answered an LFM for Stormcleave. They were most of the way through it, started with -80% xp penalty and it eventually lowered to -50%. When I first got in I opened the quest report to see what the penalty was currently and saw that there were about 10 people listed as having at least 1 kill. I said looks like there have been some droppers, and was told that some people have no sense of humor. We killed the skellies, the last couple orange names, and then the boss without much trouble at all. No deaths, no maimings even.

Now, I know that my Fighter 7 is awesome, complete with Combat Expertise, Power Attack, Cleave, and Improved Trip. However, I am somehow skeptical that I made the difference between a completely gimped party and a smooth run through the Stormcleave end fight.

On my Cleric 3, did STK. Joined up with a group that had two casters. Although we wiped three times, we eventually finished it off....when we all dropped group and reformed with one capable caster. We did, however, have a WF Fighter who was afraid to go out into the switch room because he was being shot at.

My question is this. I haven't been on Khyber that long, but when I needed new slots I picked Khyber because after trying the other servers I noticed that Khyber was generally competent, would help new to DDO players find things, and had some sack. Generally polite, quietly competent, and always a good time.

Was I wrong?

<rant on>

When did we suddenly get casters who cant figure out that their job in STK is to freaking cast at the giant? They literally stood there while the shield wall got hammered on until finally I couldn't keep them up and they died. They didn't even learn the second time, as when they cast at the giant he came towards them, and apparently that scared them so they stopped. Stopped casting, that is, but they didn't stop running into the water so the giant would be at full health when we came back in.

And when did we get fighters who were afraid of getting shot with a few arrows on the way to a switch?

(Combat): You make a sack check. You roll a 1. Epic Failure!

And when did we get people who, at level 6-9, drop group when they die? Unless I stumbled onto a group of Permadeath players, which I doubt. I mean after I joined the run was smooth and efficient, and I know that it wasn't all me, so these dudes must have been dropping from a somewhat smoothly functioning group. The cleric had been there from the start, so it wasn't a matter of crappy healing or anything, which can be frustrating.

What ever happened to sticking it through to the end? I mean sure there are times when you gotta say that this is above us and just let it go, but man that should be the exception and only after everything else has been tried. And whatever happened to fighters who actually CHARGED at the enemy and didn't freaking cower in an alcove? And whatever happened to casters who stood boldly behind the shield wall and killed stuff with their spells? Or for that matter players who could actually LEARN from the first party wipe, or the second party wipe, or the third party wipe for that matter?

Here is an actual conversation from the third wipe in STK. The scene is this. Everyone is dead, with the exception of one of the casters who is in the process of dying but running in circles trying to prolong the inevitable. He has not cast anything at all.

Me: Unbelievable. You two both have full blue bars. Did you cast anything at all?
Caster 1: I thought we were getting in position.
Caster 2: If I cast at him he hits me with his sword. I don't have a lot of HP.
Me: The whole point of the exercise is that he should be trying to hit you, and ignoring us, and we stand in his way so he can't get to you.
Caster 1: But you are all dead.
Me: Yeah, but thats because you didn't cast at him to get his aggro.
Caster 1: We were still getting into position.
<multiple drops from group>
Me: Later...actually not later because I am not ever running with you again.
Caster 2: Why?
Me: <drop group>

I hope to heck that this is an anomaly, and that tonight will work better.

I still think Khyber is the best server out there, and hope that these tools were simply tourists or something. If you see these people (and trust me you will know them if you play with them), make sure that you give them the guidance that they need.

[Boldrin]

Lol, were they 10 yr olds?

[Anastasios]

Last I heard this server got neutered a very long time ago...don't worry we'll keep sending the noobs from Argo over to reestablish what was once Mabar.

You can keep the Sellout, he's holding a good player back.

Khyber...rhymes with *****-love your work.

[HeavenlyCloud]

Last I heard this server got neutered a very long time ago...don't worry we'll keep sending the noobs from Argo over to reestablish what was once Mabar.

You can keep the Sellout, he's holding a good player back.

Khyber...rhymes with *****-love your work.

You know just because i play on Khyber does not mean you can post in Khyber forums Trel! GTFO Sellout, stop holding me back!

[Lithic]

Not being from khyber you can choose to ignore this, but nowhere in your post was it explicitely said you told the casters what to do and what the plan was. If you just ran into a shield wall and assumed they would know thier part, then it is you who are at fault in that case. Lot of new people around argo, and I would expect khyber as well, so expect to see many who have never seen a giant before.

As for the fighter getting shot, what was the point of having him run to a switch and be constantly interrupted, taking damage all the while? Sounds like he had a good idea to, you know, NOT get hit. I know not all melees carry missile weapons at those levels (which is really a bad habit), but he could very well have had no way to deal with the archers/clerics up top past the fire trap.

[unionyes]

Not being from khyber you can choose to ignore this, but nowhere in your post was it explicitely said you told the casters what to do and what the plan was. If you just ran into a shield wall and assumed they would know thier part, then it is you who are at fault in that case. Lot of new people around argo, and I would expect khyber as well, so expect to see many who have never seen a giant before.

As for the fighter getting shot, what was the point of having him run to a switch and be constantly interrupted, taking damage all the while? Sounds like he had a good idea to, you know, NOT get hit. I know not all melees carry missile weapons at those levels (which is really a bad habit), but he could very well have had no way to deal with the archers/clerics up top past the fire trap.

Yes, we explained in great detail before the first time we jumped down the hole. And again, before we jumped down the second time. And again before we jumped down the third time. The group was very well led, not by me, and it was asked before part 1 if anyone didn't know the quest. Everyone said they had done it multiple times. Additionally, we clarified strategy before jumping down the giant hole, each time we tried it we went over strategy again.

As for the fighter hanging back, the barbarian and the rogue both went in for the switches. The rogue was killed by the archer at the lower switch, you know, the guy you can reach by running up to him if you take a right when you come into the room and head down the ramp? The archer was able to fire up at him while he was going up the ladder because nobody headed down there to get him. The barbarian died after making it up the ladder while trying to take out the casters. He also was shot by the archers below, who aggrod on him after they killed the rogue, again because nobody was giving them anything else to worry about. You know, because it's dangerous out there, a guy could get hit or something.

I eventually went down there myself with my cleric, who was the lowest level in the group, and held the archer and beat him down with my 8 strength and my +1 heavy mace.

You don't take any damage in the Wavecrest Tavern.

[Emili]

Hmmm, You just apparently had no luck with a group of newbie children?

[Aussieee]

Lol, were they 10 yr olds?

Hey my 3 years old makes a good leader:P You should ask the people he have guided in titan

[seldarin]

Hey my 3 years old makes a good leader:P You should ask the people he have guided in titan

Lol, i didnt know you still lead Titan groups Aussie :P

[BlackSteel]

hard to judge the caliber of player below level ten

either they could be new, unfamiliar playing a new character roll, or so used to playing their capped "I'm invincible" character who has all the loot that they bite off more than they can chew when on their lowbie.

I have a hard time playing my mutt barb b/c he's short alot of things my pure one has. Character level doesnt say nearly as much as equipment and the person in the chair.

you may be looking for an ac tank, and pick up one whose build looks like one, but b/c they havent been playing long enough to grind the loot or gotten lucky enough, they can easily be 10 points or more under whats acheivable. And that would put them in a dangerous AC range for the build.

A tank that relys on HP to get by can be short nearly 200 HP if they're missing madstone boots, con 5 instead of 6 (or a con tome), and a shroud item. Thats ALOT of hp.

Point being until you're familiar with alot of names, its always good to prepare for the worse, then you can be pleasantly surprised when things go well. Then remember those names.

[Lady_Draconus]

Got online last night (a miracle in and of itself lately) and ran a couple toons, my new Cleric 3 and my Fighter 7.

Got into two pugs. On my fighter I answered an LFM for Stormcleave. They were most of the way through it, started with -80% xp penalty and it eventually lowered to -50%. When I first got in I opened the quest report to see what the penalty was currently and saw that there were about 10 people listed as having at least 1 kill. I said looks like there have been some droppers, and was told that some people have no sense of humor. We killed the skellies, the last couple orange names, and then the boss without much trouble at all. No deaths, no maimings even.

Now, I know that my Fighter 7 is awesome, complete with Combat Expertise, Power Attack, Cleave, and Improved Trip. However, I am somehow skeptical that I made the difference between a completely gimped party and a smooth run through the Stormcleave end fight.

On my Cleric 3, did STK. Joined up with a group that had two casters. Although we wiped three times, we eventually finished it off....when we all dropped group and reformed with one capable caster. We did, however, have a WF Fighter who was afraid to go out into the switch room because he was being shot at.

My question is this. I haven't been on Khyber that long, but when I needed new slots I picked Khyber because after trying the other servers I noticed that Khyber was generally competent, would help new to DDO players find things, and had some sack. Generally polite, quietly competent, and always a good time.

Was I wrong?

<rant on>

When did we suddenly get casters who cant figure out that their job in STK is to freaking cast at the giant? They literally stood there while the shield wall got hammered on until finally I couldn't keep them up and they died. They didn't even learn the second time, as when they cast at the giant he came towards them, and apparently that scared them so they stopped. Stopped casting, that is, but they didn't stop running into the water so the giant would be at full health when we came back in.

And when did we get fighters who were afraid of getting shot with a few arrows on the way to a switch?

(Combat): You make a sack check. You roll a 1. Epic Failure!

And when did we get people who, at level 6-9, drop group when they die? Unless I stumbled onto a group of Permadeath players, which I doubt. I mean after I joined the run was smooth and efficient, and I know that it wasn't all me, so these dudes must have been dropping from a somewhat smoothly functioning group. The cleric had been there from the start, so it wasn't a matter of crappy healing or anything, which can be frustrating.

What ever happened to sticking it through to the end? I mean sure there are times when you gotta say that this is above us and just let it go, but man that should be the exception and only after everything else has been tried. And whatever happened to fighters who actually CHARGED at the enemy and didn't freaking cower in an alcove? And whatever happened to casters who stood boldly behind the shield wall and killed stuff with their spells? Or for that matter players who could actually LEARN from the first party wipe, or the second party wipe, or the third party wipe for that matter?

Here is an actual conversation from the third wipe in STK. The scene is this. Everyone is dead, with the exception of one of the casters who is in the process of dying but running in circles trying to prolong the inevitable. He has not cast anything at all.

Me: Unbelievable. You two both have full blue bars. Did you cast anything at all?
Caster 1: I thought we were getting in position.
Caster 2: If I cast at him he hits me with his sword. I don't have a lot of HP.
Me: The whole point of the exercise is that he should be trying to hit you, and ignoring us, and we stand in his way so he can't get to you.
Caster 1: But you are all dead.
Me: Yeah, but thats because you didn't cast at him to get his aggro.
Caster 1: We were still getting into position.
<multiple drops from group>
Me: Later...actually not later because I am not ever running with you again.
Caster 2: Why?
Me: <drop group>

I hope to heck that this is an anomaly, and that tonight will work better.

I still think Khyber is the best server out there, and hope that these tools were simply tourists or something. If you see these people (and trust me you will know them if you play with them), make sure that you give them the guidance that they need.

Sounds like they were a noob casters who don't know how to play their characters. Sorry to hear you had such a hard time.

[apacheizm23]

How can I put this in a respectable manner? Ok for one you cant judge the server or anything on this lowbie STK, Stormcleave, or any lowbie run lol.. That happens often on lowbie runs where u may have a Trial account player or even up to 3 in one group! Or maybe a player that hasn't played a lowbie in a bit cause he or she been playing high level content so long they forgot what to expect or do on the low level quests. This is exactly what u said it was a Rant and attention seeker. What is it? is it those small towns with Pop 5000 or so that makes one talk Jack!

[Strakeln]

Dude, you should know better.

Any runs under level 10 or so are a roll of the dice. The Khyber you are looking for is in the 14-16 range.

[Asherons_Chosen]

I have often found myself teaching casters, fighters, and clerics how to play their chosen role in a group up to and including lv 16 players.

Some folks play for the fun of it and may not have as much time, so they haven't learned some of the best play tactics... on my latest cleric reroll I had to explain and show 2 different lv 12-14 arcane casters the benefits of the jump spell (which neither had taken/loaded) and hopping around like a mad hare.... some are kids (which I admittedly limit to a max of 1- 1.5 hours max a day).

Not everyone knows how to play, and at low-mid levels you especially get a good number of less experienced players. The game may not have the most people, but one thing I have noticed Khyber is great for is helping out newer or less experienced players.

Don't let em frustrate you, explain to them how they can best benefit your group in each quest and then let them try it... if you do get bothered, let them know that you're patience isn't w/ u today so you'll have to find a new group.

[unionyes]

How can I put this in a respectable manner? Ok for one you cant judge the server or anything on this lowbie STK, Stormcleave, or any lowbie run lol.. That happens often on lowbie runs where u may have a Trial account player or even up to 3 in one group! Or maybe a player that hasn't played a lowbie in a bit cause he or she been playing high level content so long they forgot what to expect or do or on the low level quests. This is exactly what u said it was a Rant and attention seeker. What is it? is it those small towns with Pop 5000 or so that makes one talk Jack!

Right, I am seeking attention. In an anonymous Internet forum.

And I am not judging the server. Maybe I was not clear, so I will clarify.

I love Khyber. As a matter of fact, when I ran out of slots on Sarlona I checked out the other servers and decided to come to Khyber because I liked it the best. I encountered something disturbing last night. I am letting people know that this is happening on Khyber. I am also wondering if anyone else has been having the same issues as me there.

Is this a trend? Is this an anomaly?

Trust me, I have been playing for years. I don't actually like the end game content much, I prefer to level up toons to the Reaver and then they usually get dusty, so I have run the standard lowbie quests a lot. I know the difference between the dude who out of habit asks for a haste from a level 2 Wizard or a Raise from a level 4 Cleric, and someone who just doesn't get it. I know that PUGs at that level have noobs, trial accounts, people who haven't run lowbies in a long time, people trying a new class for the first time and not that great at it yet. This was different.

And these were adults. I had actually run with 'kids' earlier that day, and had fun doing it. Sure they were all over the place, and I had to run after them healing them from incapped a lot, and a lot of the party chat was along the lines of plz plz plz cn i borro som plat i will pay u bak honest i want that ax plz bro, and duz ne1 have some +2 plate i can hav plz. Not one of them was afraid to engage the mobs for fear of getting hurt, was actually the opposite.

Also, could you kindly clarify what the small town thing is about? Just not understanding it.

And no need to try and put things in a respectable manner for my sake. Just let it all out. I am a big boy and can take it.

[Demoyn]

Is this a trend? Is this an anomaly?

I've been playing in the level 4-8 range a lot lately and most of my groups have been pretty good (I pug exclusively). I did have this group the other day in Delera's that included the worst paladin I've ever seen in my life (and I don't expect a lot from paladins to begin with). He had four kills in all of Delera's part two and we were impressed that he got that many (yes, I know kill count isn't the best representation of a person's contribution, but this was fitting).

[direwolf33]

I noticed that Khyber was generally competent, would help new to DDO players find things, and had some sack. Generally polite, quietly competent, and always a good time.

Polite? Hahahahaha

[unionyes]

Polite? Hahahahaha

As in they would say 'You suck', without usually bringing family members into it

[Strakeln]

As in they would say 'You suck', without usually bringing family members into it

I initially interpreted this as some 10-year old kid bringing his mom onto the mic to tell you "you suck"

[direwolf33]

I initially interpreted this as some 10-year old kid bringing his mom onto the mic to tell you "you suck"

Actually seen in general chat the other weekend:
Player: Oh Hi, this is [Player]'s mom