Sorceress Revisited

[mediocresurgeon]

I play a human 32 point sorceress (starting stats: 18 con, 18 cha). I originally made my sorceress as a fire/ice DPS caster, because I found that I was leveling up I could kill quicker that way (and quicker kills means quicker quest completions, quicker XP, etc). Now that she's capped, I've begun rethinking her build. I am willing to put in the effort to get her whatever gear is necessary, no matter how rare/expensive/time consuming it is to get it.

Purpose: I use my sorceress in raids (Hound, Shroud, and Vision) and Mod 8 missions almost exclusively. She does this quite well, but I would like to gain the capacity to solo certain quests for loot runs (such as, but not limited to, Cursed Crypt, Bloodstone & Fire Greaves chests, Trial by Fire, Shrieking Mines, Ghola-Fan, etc) without hurting her ability to be a team player in raids and Mod 8 content.

Gear Optimization:
This is what I have been able to come up with for optimal gear when soloing. I do not mind swapping gear around mid-battle, as long as it is quick--and I do not want to take off gear that might reduce my ability to survive! This is what I have come up with so far. Suggestions?

Weapon 1: Charisma +9 triple-positive shroud weapon (True Res. 1/rest)
Weapon 2: Superior Potency 6 (+50% damage to level 6 and lower spells)
Bracers: Vision Bracers (+400 SP, Spell Pen. 8)
Boots: VoN 6 Boots (Continual Freedom of Movement)
Cape: Reaver's Napkin (+1 spell DCs)
Trinket: Head of Good Fortune (+2 UMD and saves)
Helmet: Minos Legens (+20 hp, 100% fortification)
Necklace: Scourge Choker
Belt: Poison Immunity & Greater False Life (+30 hp)
Ring 1: Constitution +6
Ring 2: Disease Immunity
Gloves: 7-Fingered Gloves (+5 UMD)
Goggles: Shroud x3 Positive (Charisma Skills +6, +300 SP, True Resurrection 1/rest)
Robe: Blue Dragon (Greater Arcane Lore)

High UMD is essential for this character, since it allows me to self-heal when soloing. High hit points are required to make soloing more forgiving and so I do not die during lag spikes. High charisma is required for extra SP, UMD, and spell DCs.


Here is my current spell list.

Spell Current Spells:
Level 8: Polar Ray
Level 7: Finger of Death, Dancing Sphere
Level 6: Disintegrate, Greater Heroism, Flesh to Stone
Level 5: Cloudkill, Cone of Cold, Hold Monster, Teleport
Level 4: Dimension Door, Enervation, Phantasmal Killer, Wall of Fire
Level 3: Dispel Magic, Fireball, Haste, Rage
Level 2: Blur, Knock, Resist Energy, Web
Level 1: Jump, Magic Missile, Niac's Cold Ray, Nightshield

What I Cannot Live Without:
-I need a high-damaging ray spell (such as Polar Ray or Disintegrate). Because Disintegrate works on pretty much anything in the game (including the fire/ice immune skeletons in Cursed Crypt) I value it much higher than Polar Ray, which I only use on Harry. (Since I have both, I use disintegrate on the crystals in the Shroud, but either one should do the trick.)
-Wall of Fire.
-Haste.
-Knock.
-Finger of Death.
-Jump.
-Blur.

Spells I Like, But Can Live Without:
-Nightshield. I do not use a resistance item, so getting this boost to my saves can be important. However, I can live without it.
-Dancing Sphere, with a few exceptions, allows me to hold off melee mobs. However, it is falling out of fashion because it can cause lag to other players. I would like to keep it, but can live without it.
-Phantasmal Kill is used when Finger of Death is on cooldown.
-Enervation is used on monsters with high saves to soften them up for more direct attacks (such as flesh to stone).
-Flesh to Stone comes in handy in Prey on the Hunter, Stealer of Souls, and Gianthold Tor.
-Greater Heroism is on my spell list, but can just as easily be replaced with scrolls.
-Teleport can be replaced with scrolls.
-Cone of Cold. Normally, I use Wall of Fire to kill crowds, but will use Cone of Cold to nuke enemies immune to fire or vulnerable to cold. In situations where a single cast of Cone of Cold kills enemies quicker than Wall of Fire, I use Cone of Cold.
-Rage grants me extra hit points, a bonus to my fortitude save, and a higher strength score (so I don't get incapacitated in one shot by strength damage). Melee characters often like it, too.
-Web. This lets me keep my distance from pesky mobs. The problem is, I cannot Web and Wall of Fire at the same time, so its use is somewhat limited.

Spells I Rarely/Never Use:
-Hold Monster
-Niac's Cold Ray
-Magic Missile
-Fireball
-Dispel Magic
-Cloudkill

Spells I Know I Am Missing:
-Any sort of solid fog. I rate Acid Fog as the highest, because it will let me damage multiple enemies immune to fire/ice. However, I have never really played around with this spell so I do not know how effective it actually is.

Please post any constructive criticism or suggestions you might have! (Please make a separate thread for hate mail, tangents, and other off-topic messages.)
EDIT: Please state reasons for suggestions you might make! (You might be 100% right, but if you don't back up what you say, it won't be very convincing.)

[WeaselKing]

I don't get why you want the Scourge Choker.

Also if you target carefully you can get mobs stuck in webs in firewall.

Otherwise all seems good to me even if a LOT of work. WF wizzies are better though. XD XD

[Junts]

get displacement


consider another level 7 spell; after the shroud, a lot of stuff is immune (in vod, hound, and mod8) to dancing sphere

polar ray is better than disintegrate because it lacks a save; if things save against disintegrate, it does terrible damage.

[Junts]

I don't get why you want the Scourge Choker.

Also if you target carefully you can get mobs stuck in webs in firewall.

scourge choker on a caster is great; the fatigue is only for attack speed, and you gain a ton of hp while kiting mobs.

[WeaselKing]

scourge choker on a caster is great; the fatigue is only for attack speed, and you gain a ton of hp while kiting mobs.

Oh, ok never bothered with one.

[spyderwolf]

you absolutely need nightshield or shield. too many things cast force missile now days

[spyderwolf]

drop niacs for tumble
drop fireball for displacement
drop hold monster for ball lightning
drop dance sphere for banishment

thats what id do with your spells hydro.

[mediocresurgeon]

get displacement

What would you swap out for Displacement? If I take Displacement, should I still keep Blur?

consider another level 7 spell; after the shroud, a lot of stuff is immune (in vod, hound, and mod8) to dancing sphere

What is another good level 7 spell to take, and what would I use instead of Dancing Sphere for crowd control?

polar ray is better than disintegrate because it lacks a save; if things save against disintegrate, it does terrible damage.

Polar Ray and Disintegrate are not mutually exclusive. Is there another spell I should get instead of either of these two? (Also, Disintegrate is typically used on objects, constructs and undead, all of which have terrible Fortitude saves.)

[Eternity25]

because it lacks a save; if things save against disintegrate, it does terrible damage.

Are you sure there is no save for Polar Ray? So a polar ray clickie at caster lvl 16 would be the same as a caster who was lvl 16 casting a polar ray without anything to enhance it in dmg?

[mediocresurgeon]

Are you sure there is no save for Polar Ray?

There is no save for Polar Ray.

Why Polar Ray is Better Than Disintegrate:
Uses Fire/Ice +%damage enhancement line and spell critical line
No Save
Double damage vs Fire creatures

Why Disintegrate is Better Than Polar Ray:
Works with Superior Potency 6 weapons (+50% damage)
Does 2d6 damage per caster level instead of 1d6 per caster level
Works on a greater variety of creatures
Affects creatures which are normally immune to spells (such as some constructs) and creatures immune to elemental damage (such as skeletons)

[gfunk]

Instead of triple pos goggles I went with neg, pos, pos for existential stale mate and a +3 to will saves. The only problem with that is that UMD with cartouche only gets to 37.5 which means I fail a heal scroll on a 2 (I do not have a UMD skill focus). If you are planning for 7 fingered gloves though, you should have not problem getting umd high enough.

I would swap the disease immunity ring for a ring of Thelis (for the lower sp cost), possibly putting the neg on your first tier of your goggles and getting disease immunity there (or just carry pots/scrolls).

I situationally use firestorm greaves, or boots of innocence... though the kundarak boots would be nice for sure. would also consider dex boots here if you are situationally trying to get your AC up.

Also, I make sure to keep my charisma 9 weapon in my off hand (you have it listed as weapon #1).

Eventually I'll suck it up and make a DT robe to switch situationally with the much more stylish blue dragon robe.

In terms of spells:

lvl 8 spells:
same, nothing else to see here...

lvl 7 spells:
I find dancing sphere boring, so currently I have mass hold person which is kinda fun for the auto-crits. I think heightened web is sufficient for this type of crowd control. I had waves of exhaustion, but for now I'm just casting that off scrolls and seeing how it goes (took 5 tries to land it on harry last night).

lvl 6 spells
as you are running VOD alot, you might temporarily want reconstruct. Some people would say just dump GH for it. Currently I have traded out of flesh to stone on my sorc just due to the content I'm running, though long term i would rather have flesh to stone then GH. I carry scrolls of shadow walk, true seeing, and GH from this level.

lvl 5 spells.
Teleport is fine off scrolls, and reasonably cheap so I would dump that for either waves of fatigue, protection from elements (i notice you have not protection at lvl 3 either) or symbol of pain. Symbol of pain works on red-names and is a super nice debuff, but it is tough to land. I have protection from elements as well, because of some changes to my 3rd level spells.

lvl 4 spells.
I dumped PK for firesheild, which I use alot in VOD and Shroud. The scroll version is OK, but I find that it runs out at inconvinient times, and I would rather have the 3 minute casted version. The only place where I miss PK is in shroud part 4, where it's nice as the 1-2 punch combo for the gnolls. Other then that, i get by with FOD or a masshold/stat damage combo.

lvl 3 spells.
I would definately make room for displacement.. I use it all the time, esp when soloing. It's also a very useful spell to cast on people in part 2 shroud, or in other short duration fights. If I'm doing an elite VOD run, I'll try to make sure that every1 has it when devils spawn. Some people would probably say to dump fireball for it.. but i find fireball to be a fun sort of spell which is moderately useful when soloing in the desert. Dispell magic isn't needed that often, so I would probably dump that, and just get it on a wand or clickie (I have it as a clickie on some goggles, and it works well enough to dispell summoned earth ele's).

lvl 2 spells
Same spells that I have, though I would love to dump blur for something more fun,as currently I only use blur to buff other people with (i would rather just use displacement). I often think about dumping it for ooze puppet, repair moderate damage, or scorching ray.

lvl 1 spells
I've always hated niacs. I would prefer any of repair light damage, tumble, or shield.

[Desteria]

Ok i'll adress it in sections and bits and peices mostly looks solid...

NOTE since you don;t list your feats I'll list my spell suggestions bassed on the assumtion you have the standard set of GOOD feats fro a sorc sicne most of your build looks solid I'm sure you did not waste feats.
Assumed feat set is: EMP, MAX, HIGHTEN, EXTEND, SPELL PEN, GTR SPELL PEN + 1 casue your human.

I play a human 32 point sorceress (starting stats: 18 con, 18 cha). I originally made my sorceress as a fire/ice DPS caster, because I found that I was leveling up I could kill quicker that way (and quicker kills means quicker quest completions, quicker XP, etc). Now that she's capped, I've begun rethinking her build. I am willing to put in the effort to get her whatever gear is necessary, no matter how rare/expensive/time consuming it is to get it.

Purpose: I use my sorceress in raids (Hound, Shroud, and Vision) and Mod 8 missions almost exclusively. She does this quite well, but I would like to gain the capacity to solo certain quests for loot runs (such as, but not limited to, Cursed Crypt, Bloodstone & Fire Greaves chests, Trial by Fire, Shrieking Mines, Ghola-Fan, etc) without hurting her ability to be a team player in raids and Mod 8 content.

well your off to a good start imo.

Gear Optimization:
This is what I have been able to come up with for optimal gear when soloing. I do not mind swapping gear around mid-battle, as long as it is quick--and I do not want to take off gear that might reduce my ability to survive! This is what I have come up with so far. Suggestions?

Weapon 1: Charisma +9 triple-positive shroud weapon (True Res. 1/rest)
Weapon 2: Superior Potency 6 (+50% damage to level 6 and lower spells)
Bracers: Vision Bracers (+400 SP, Spell Pen. 8)
Boots: VoN 6 Boots (Continual Freedom of Movement)
Cape: Reaver's Napkin (+1 spell DCs)
Trinket: Head of Good Fortune (+2 UMD and saves)
Helmet: Minos Legens (+20 hp, 100% fortification)
Necklace: Scourge Choker
Belt: Poison Immunity & Greater False Life (+30 hp)
Ring 1: Constitution +6
Ring 2: Disease Immunity
Gloves: 7-Fingered Gloves (+5 UMD)
Goggles: Shroud x3 Positive (Charisma Skills +6, +300 SP, True Resurrection 1/rest)
Robe: Blue Dragon (Greater Arcane Lore)

High UMD is essential for this character, since it allows me to self-heal when soloing. High hit points are required to make soloing more forgiving and so I do not die during lag spikes. High charisma is required for extra SP, UMD, and spell DCs.

Make sure your Cha septer is in your off hand so you don't swap it out when UMDign scrolls

For your neck i suggest Silver flame triket level 3, deathblock is nice especaly when soloing, and those 10 charges of neg energy absorbtion really come in handle they are a lot of badies they like the enervate OR cast BIG nasty inflict spells, and doen right you really shoudl not get hit enough to make scourge chooker that good, (sepe spells fro displacment advice).

Shroud Goggles: Tier 1 pos is a WASTE, you cna UMD res scrolls, the disruction guard is rare at best none existant if your not getitng hit, and you will have Wiz8 ont eh vod bracers. I STRONGLY SUGGEST:
Tier 1 - Neg Blindness/desise imunity
Tier 2 - Pos +50sp +2cha skills
Existamstale mate +6 wis, +10 haggle dip etc, I dont bother to caryr a seperate haggle item now
Tier 3 - Pos&Neg +100sp +3cha skills
Concordent opposition small chance of SP/Temps It;s not big but hey free SP is always nice.

Belt/ring...
Move GFL to your RING in the form on a PP ring of GFL, this may be expesive/take a while to find BUT combined with the above goggels it frees up your BELT for a second shroud item Like say a Tripple HP item your choice on the elmetla effects/mix, (I like water, fire, earth, gives +13 concentration bonus, and is single large shard.)

Here is my current spell list.

Spell Current Spells:
Level 8: Polar Ray

yay

Level 7: Finger of Death, Dancing Sphere

What i use BUT disco ball is mroe optional now.

Level 6: Disintegrate, Greater Heroism, Flesh to Stone

Scroll G-hero, get ACID FOG, way easyer to fit the fog in here then at level 4.

Level 5: Cloudkill, Cone of Cold, Hold Monster, Teleport

BREAK enchantment is GREAT for most raids/quests buy buy BB's/solid FOGS, drop Telaport or Hold monster.
I like Prot elements here as well, But it's up to you, both TP & hold are easy to lose.

Level 4: Dimension Door, Enervation, Phantasmal Killer, Wall of Fire

FIRE SHIELD.... it saves lives., as for how to fit it in, your screwed something has to go and you want ALL OF them... my suggestion start checking the AH for DDoor scrolls and then onyl use them when REALLYL needed, for EG. G-telaport cna get every one out at the end of shroud now.

Level 3: Dispel Magic, Fireball, Haste, Rage

KEEP: Haste, Rage.
ADD: Displacment... this is a MUST have spell imo fro VOD, 4-8 cleavign mosters displament on party = 50%LESS damage to every one the clerics will LOVE you.. this is also a permenent self buff, some won't but I dropped blur with this, to fre eup a level 2 slot.
ALSO GOOD: Stinking Cloud, or Prot energy IF you don;t get elvle 5 Prot Elements.

Level 2: Blur, Knock, Resist Energy, Web

KEEP: WEB, resist Energy.
GET: Scorching RAY it and polar ray are your single target no save supper eficent nukes.
KNOCK great for shroud.
OOZE PUPPET great for enter the kolbold/Sub.
IF you drop blur for SR, pick one of these 2 for the last slot, decied wich you do more shroud without a rouge or other knock caster, OR Sorjek prep.

Level 1: Jump, Magic Missile, Niac's Cold Ray, Nightshield

KEEP: Jump, Night Sheild, (I do the same as you it's my resist item, caryr a ring/cloak you cna swap on for beholders though.)
MM is OK, but also dropable.
DROP: niac's Polar ray replaces it totaly.
GOOD stuff to get, what i have atm.... RoEnfeeble great fro debuffing MOST raid bosses HIGH effect cheap and fast to cast.
Hyipnotism, VERY fast casting will bases AoE CC does not lag people liek disco ball, does not work well with THF or idiot pugs, still it's fast lasts a LONG TIME, and lands very often I find.

What I Cannot Live Without:
-I need a high-damaging ray spell (such as Polar Ray or Disintegrate). Because Disintegrate works on pretty much anything in the game (including the fire/ice immune skeletons in Cursed Crypt) I value it much higher than Polar Ray, which I only use on Harry. (Since I have both, I use disintegrate on the crystals in the Shroud, but either one should do the trick.)
-Wall of Fire.
-Haste.
-Knock.
-Finger of Death.
-Jump.
-Blur.

Spells I Like, But Can Live Without:
-Nightshield. I do not use a resistance item, so getting this boost to my saves can be important. However, I can live without it.
-Dancing Sphere, with a few exceptions, allows me to hold off melee mobs. However, it is falling out of fashion because it can cause lag to other players. I would like to keep it, but can live without it.
-Phantasmal Kill is used when Finger of Death is on cooldown.
-Enervation is used on monsters with high saves to soften them up for more direct attacks (such as flesh to stone).
-Flesh to Stone comes in handy in Prey on the Hunter, Stealer of Souls, and Gianthold Tor.
-Greater Heroism is on my spell list, but can just as easily be replaced with scrolls.
-Teleport can be replaced with scrolls.
-Cone of Cold. Normally, I use Wall of Fire to kill crowds, but will use Cone of Cold to nuke enemies immune to fire or vulnerable to cold. In situations where a single cast of Cone of Cold kills enemies quicker than Wall of Fire, I use Cone of Cold.
-Rage grants me extra hit points, a bonus to my fortitude save, and a higher strength score (so I don't get incapacitated in one shot by strength damage). Melee characters often like it, too.
-Web. This lets me keep my distance from pesky mobs. The problem is, I cannot Web and Wall of Fire at the same time, so its use is somewhat limited.

Spells I Rarely/Never Use:
-Hold Monster
-Niac's Cold Ray
-Magic Missile
-Fireball
-Dispel Magic
-Cloudkill

Spells I Know I Am Missing:
-Any sort of solid fog. I rate Acid Fog as the highest, because it will let me damage multiple enemies immune to fire/ice. However, I have never really played around with this spell so I do not know how effective it actually is.

Please post any constructive criticism or suggestions you might have! (Please make a separate thread for hate mail, tangents, and other off-topic messages.)
EDIT: Please state reasons for suggestions you might make! (You might be 100% right, but if you don't back up what you say, it won't be very convincing.)

Spells to carry on scrolls, because they work juts as well:
G-hero.
STONE to FLESH.
Waves of exaustion.
Telaport.
Greater Telaport.

[Desteria]

There is no save for Polar Ray.

Why Polar Ray is Better Than Disintegrate:
Uses Fire/Ice +%damage enhancement line and spell critical line
No Save
Double damage vs Fire creatures

Why Disintegrate is Better Than Polar Ray:
Works with Superior Potency 6 weapons (+50% damage)
Does 2d6 damage per caster level instead of 1d6 per caster level
Works on a greater variety of creatures
Affects creatures which are normally immune to spells (such as some constructs) and creatures immune to elemental damage (such as skeletons)

for soloing Distigrate is absolutly needed in some quests, as it will be about the only thing that hurts certen things.

[Desteria]

opsp dubble post deleated.

[tinyelvis]

You are a sorcerer, you're capped, you should be able to solo just about everything with no problem.

However, you could use some better more diverse spells:
Dump blur and get ooze puppet
Dump PK and get charm monster
Learn which spells don't draw aggro. and how to use them effectively. Specialize in fire/ice and force/repair. The later will help you kill end bosses immune to fire/ice. Make sure you have complete weapons sets for superior lore. So you will be very mana efficient.

The best solo feat is enlarge hands down. If you don't have it then get it.

Pull your training arcane caster (wizard) out from time to time to experiment with new spells. If you don't have a training wizard, I would suggest rolling one up and leveling him to cap. So many people playing sorcerers don't understand their own capabilities. All should first learn on a wizard and use him from time to time to test new spell combos and strategies. That is what he is there for.

[Mindspat]

I would advise looking at getting DT Armor/Robes with Improved Glaciation VIII. It's 30% more damage to Polar Ray. (Best of luck to you when applying Soverign Runes)

A Superior Lore item would be better then the Blue Scale Robes which only benefits Disentigrate whereas it effectively diminishes any percieved notion that you're going to be doing lots of damage; ie, crit multiplier reduced to .25 with Arcane Lore where as .50 with Superior.

The trick is going to be using various weapon and item sets. whlie you're not going to benefit from high DC's on ray attacks there's no benefit from a +9CHa item in your hand at the time of casting such spells. This would be ideal to use a weapon set which is Superior Lore based to gaurenteed the highest potential of damage.

When you're relying on crowd control would be the best time to switch back to the +9 cha item since this is going to boost your DC's.