scroll GH or not?

[Stonebread]

I have an instakill focused build but am finding the lack of a fog spell annoying. So I am debating between getting GH and dropping PK to pick up Solid Fog, or getting Acid Fog, keeping PK and scrolling GH.

My other lvl 6 spells are Flesh to Stone and Disintegrate.

Is scrolling GH going to be too expensive/annoying?

[Thrudh]

Heh, huge flaming thread on this subject already.... (See Sorc required feats)

Anyway, scrolling GH is very good idea... You get the exact same benefit from a scroll as you do from casting the spell. However it costs money, and is slower to hit the whole group with it. But you free up a spell slot, and save some SP when buffing the party.

I would definitely try it out for yourself and see how you like it.

[unionyes]

Heh, huge flaming thread on this subject already.... (See Sorc required feats)

Anyway, scrolling GH is very good idea... You get the exact same benefit from a scroll as you do from casting the spell. However it costs money, and is slower to hit the whole group with it. But you free up a spell slot, and save some SP when buffing the party.

I would definitely try it out for yourself and see how you like it.

Think we did this already once too, although it was hard to tell by the end, as it turned into a flamefest.

I keep it loaded on my sorc, but I am notoriously cheap and don't see the need to burn scrolls. If you have the plat like some folks do, then it may be a good idea IF you want that slot for something else. Don't just scroll it because you heard it here.

If you want the slot for something else, and have the plat for the scrolls, then yes it is a good one to scroll because unlike a lot of spells it doesn't get weak if you cast it from a scroll.

[Kiranselie]

Ive always scrolled gh, sure it can be expensive, but you'll find that a lot of the peeps you run w/ might be more willing to supply their own if they know you're using scrolls. At least this is the way it is on Argo anyway.

[Mhykke]

Probably think about the groups you run with the most.

If they don't usually supply their own GH's, and/or are asking for GH's a lot, it might save yourself some trouble by just picking up the spell.

Ideally, you'd scroll it and save yourself a spell slot, b/c a scrolled GH is just as effective, and lasts for a pretty decent time.

[drachine]

I have an instakill focused build but am finding the lack of a fog spell annoying. So I am debating between getting GH and dropping PK to pick up Solid Fog, or getting Acid Fog, keeping PK and scrolling GH.

My other lvl 6 spells are Flesh to Stone and Disintegrate.

Is scrolling GH going to be too expensive/annoying?

the last one is correct. get acid fog, keep pk and scroll gh imo.

[Beherit_Baphomar]

Tried it, dont like it.

Not really the cost, to me at least its just annoying as all hell to GH from scrolls.

Id love to do it, using a spell slot when wands/scrolls are available is just silly...but GH scrolls just aint cutting it for me. Too slow, too expensive (when GH'ing a raid group) and just too **** annoying.

[daniel7]

I say make the piking rogue cast it!

[Vengenance]

GH is available on an easy to obtain item (planar gird) that can be farmed or traded for. GH on a scroll is exactly as effective as GH from the spell, and can be used by anyone with a 40 UMD (my rogue and umd ranger have no problem self casting this spell). Bards almost always carry this spell and wizzards can easily switch spells between shrines, so carrying GH isn't usually a problem.

At end game, GH is really only useful to UMD characters who want that extra +4 to their UMD score and these folks can typically self cast GH from a scroll. The only other benefit is the fear immunity aspects of the spell that can be had from easily obtained or crafted items. If at level 16 you really need that extra +4 to hit a monster then you have bigger problems than not having GH, especially considering how often you are debuffed in the game. At end game bard songs >>>> GH for hitting/damaging mobs.

A sorc only gets three level 6 spells and most are junk if cast from a scroll. There are much better spell alternatives than GH IMO.

[Strakeln]

GH is available on an easy to obtain item (planar gird) that can be farmed or traded for. GH on a scroll is exactly as effective as GH from the spell, and can be used by anyone with a 40 UMD (my rogue and umd ranger have no problem self casting this spell). Bards almost always carry this spell and wizzards can easily switch spells between shrines, so carrying GH isn't usually a problem.

At end game, GH is really only useful to UMD characters who want that extra +4 to their UMD score and these folks can typically self cast GH from a scroll. The only other benefit is the fear immunity aspects of the spell that can be had from easily obtained or crafted items. If at level 16 you really need that extra +4 to hit a monster then you have bigger problems than not having GH, especially considering how often you are debuffed in the game. At end game bard songs >>>> GH for hitting/damaging mobs.

A sorc only gets three level 6 spells and most are junk if cast from a scroll. There are much better spell alternatives than GH IMO.

At level 16, you may not *need* that extra +4 to hit, but for barbarians - especially WF barbarians - being able to depend on GH allows them to dip further into the PA enhancements.

[daniel7]

Well the very casual player probably doesnt have a greensteel item or a planar girdle. But either way you shouldn't feel obligated to carry scrolls. You should carry some but I wouldn't cast it on anyone that didn't ask for it since so many can cast it on themselves. I would think that in a balanced raid you shouldn't be the one casting it anyways, the bard or the wizard will do it. When I am playing my rogue and we don't have a caster I don't cast GH on anyone that doesn't ask for it.

[Impaqt]

Why would a sorc be the GH-er in a Raid Party?

I dont even carry GH as a spell on my Wizard. Most raids the bard is more than happy to provide GH for the people that require it.

I carry scrolls as a backup, Just in case, but I do not randomly throw them out ever.

[Thrudh]

GH is available on an easy to obtain item (planar gird) that can be farmed or traded for. GH on a scroll is exactly as effective as GH from the spell, and can be used by anyone with a 40 UMD (my rogue and umd ranger have no problem self casting this spell). Bards almost always carry this spell and wizzards can easily switch spells between shrines, so carrying GH isn't usually a problem.

At end game, GH is really only useful to UMD characters who want that extra +4 to their UMD score and these folks can typically self cast GH from a scroll. The only other benefit is the fear immunity aspects of the spell that can be had from easily obtained or crafted items. If at level 16 you really need that extra +4 to hit a monster then you have bigger problems than not having GH, especially considering how often you are debuffed in the game. At end game bard songs >>>> GH for hitting/damaging mobs.

A sorc only gets three level 6 spells and most are junk if cast from a scroll. There are much better spell alternatives than GH IMO.

FYI

GH also gives +4 to saves... That's pretty useful to almost everyone... And for many characters, the +4 to hit does help....

Note that some quests only have 6 people instead of 12 (uber power-gamers pretty much only run 12-man raids or solo quests for loot), so there are times when there will be no bard or wizard along to back up the sorc.

Also, a VERY small percentage of the population considers a planar gird to be "an easy to obtain item"

All that said, I still agree that GH is best (if you have the money) to use from a scroll. If you decide you'd rather carry it as a spell, that's fine too... You have to decide which is more painful... always scrolling GH or not having that Acid Fog (or whatever) when you need it...

[Barumar]

Tried it, dont like it.

Not really the cost, to me at least its just annoying as all hell to GH from scrolls.

Id love to do it, using a spell slot when wands/scrolls are available is just silly...but GH scrolls just aint cutting it for me. Too slow, too expensive (when GH'ing a raid group) and just too **** annoying.

A lot of good points on either side of scrolling versus carrying the spell.

MOSTLY I am glad this is not a ****ing contest like the other thread turned into (ironicially about Sorcerer Feats!)

However, I like this one the best as I have recently switched to Acid Fog and am scrolling GH. I am used to "buff them all with everything, cause I can" - but lately have been asking before I buff to maximize SP usage (I know 2500 SP and I am acting like I got less that 2000 ) - and not to overlap (waste) buffage. I like to see everyone Stoned (may swap this out next and just wand anyone who asks) and Blurred, and now just ask who wants a GH before I burn a scroll...

It is slower, and messes up on old habit or order of buffage, but have had no complaints, and players seem cool about having to ask if they want. Also, I think a lot of tanks have Girds, but save in case they get debuffed or wears off.

Anyway, the most important thing about the current ability to swap spells every three days is try it out and if you don't like it - or find you don't use one of your other spells of that level - swap around until you do find what you like and works for your play-style and quests you are running...

Barumar

[rimble]

However, I like this one the best as I have recently switched to Acid Fog and am scrolling GH. I am used to "buff them all with everything, cause I can" - but lately have been asking before I buff to maximize SP usage (I know 2500 SP and I am acting like I got less that 2000 ) - and not to overlap (waste) buffage. I like to see everyone Stoned (may swap this out next and just wand anyone who asks) and Blurred, and now just ask who wants a GH before I burn a scroll...

I swapped Stoneskin out for Enervation (yeah, finally, I know) a couple weeks ago...I didn't like using the wands at all. 70 points versus 150 points is a big difference, and as mentioned above I got tired of the three step process: <click> get wand out, <click> use wand, <click> get normal weapons back out. I went back and chucked PK and took Stoneskin back.

[Thrudh]

Why would a sorc be the GH-er in a Raid Party?

I dont even carry GH as a spell on my Wizard. Most raids the bard is more than happy to provide GH for the people that require it.

I carry scrolls as a backup, Just in case, but I do not randomly throw them out ever.

FYI.... There's more to this game than raids Sometimes you're the ONLY caster in the group.

[gfunk]

Also, a VERY small percentage of the population considers a planar gird to be "an easy to obtain item"

Notionally I agree with you.. it does seem pretty spendy for a casual player to acquire one. However, I often see them on the AH for close to 200k plat (haven't looked for a few weeks, so maybe this number is a bit out of date). That also sounds like alot, but you could just sell a large scale or stone, or some other combination of larges (or smalls even), and easily raise the amount of plat required.

Sure, it puts you behind on crafting a bit, but a shroud run only takes about an hour for a typical pug, whereas it can take several hours to farm a gird.

As general advice, I would suggest that casual players think carefully about what gear will help them more.. shroud crafted items, or expensive AH items such as w/p's, firestorm greaves, bloodstones, or planer girds. I've seen w/p daggers for as little as 900 k plat (possibly net that much from 2 large scales), bloodstones for 500k plat, and girds for 200k plat. All these things can be within the grasp of a casual if they make some careful trades/ sales.

Also in favor of GH on scrolls... though I often have it mem'd on my sorc.

[Impaqt]

FYI.... There's more to this game than raids Sometimes you're the ONLY caster in the group.

True, But the number of 6man quests that really require most of the group to have GH is very small.

As a Lightning/ACid Speced Warforge Wizard I carry ChainLightning, Acid Fog, Reconstruct, and swap Fts and Disintegrate depending on quest.

For sorcs, its much harder to manage. I dont expect any sorc to carry GH... I dont even expect sorcs to carry extend.

[Thrudh]

Also, I think a lot of tanks have Girds, but save in case they get debuffed or wears off.

Yep, this is true for me...

[Beherit_Baphomar]

Why would a sorc be the GH-er in a Raid Party?

I dont even carry GH as a spell on my Wizard. Most raids the bard is more than happy to provide GH for the people that require it.

I carry scrolls as a backup, Just in case, but I do not randomly throw them out ever.

I tend not to rely or wait on anyone else to buff the party...I'll get in there and throw out the buffs, instead of waiting around to see if the bard has blur/gh...just get it done and go.

"Can I get a GH?"
Anyone else??
<20 seconds later>
"I need GH"
*cast GH* Anyone else?
<silence>
"Can someone give me GH?"