Can we get Bluff fixed?

[drachine]

not exactly sure why this skill continues to be ignored by devs as it is not currently usable the way the game is set up now.

1. Bluff needs to be an attack they way it states in the rules. as it stands it merely makes someone vulnerable to a sneak attack.

2. Bluff is so slow it is not practical to use in most combat situations. Is this because raid bosses can be bluff that it is near useless in combat situations?

3. Deception in effect mimics Bluff and you get an attack in the process which may potentially generate a sneak attack. This is much more useful. Deception works on raid bosses. However, it does not not take into account the wielder's Bluff so there is no motivation to maintain a high bluff skill.

4. Improved Feint should be an attack and not just make a group vulnerable to sneak attack. This makes also makes near unusable in most situations. Deception weapons are a better way to go.

5. I have found I only use Bluff when talking to a few PCs.

Can we get this skill updated please while you are fixing things? It's been lying by the wayside for a while. What is the reason for this?

[Angelus_dead]

1. Bluff needs to be an attack they way it states in the rules. as it stands it merely makes someone vulnerable to a sneak attack.

It doesn't need to be an attack, but it shouldn't interrupt your actions the way it does. It shouldn't take any more time than Intimidate or Diplomacy.

The other fix needed for Bluff is to extend the duration; instead of working for only 1 attack, it should last for at least 2-3 seconds. (Maybe the duration can be based on how high your Bluff check was. Like set the duration at 500 ms + 100 ms per additional point rolled)

PS. The animations previously used for Bluff and Intimidate should be moved to emotes. They resemble /point and /angry, but are not quite the same. No reason to discard the animation.

[krud]

Don't hold your breath. Many of us have been complaining for a long time to no avail. I haven't seen a thread in such a long time I didn't think there was anyone left who cares. Intimidate and diplomacy both got a boost a while back. Bluff/Imp feint? Nothing. Nada. Zippo. It completely sucks monkey balls. It's about as worthwhile as the repair skill on a pure dwarven barbarian. Pity, because it could be really useful, if they'd only pay a little attention to it.

I had the worst of all strategies all rolled up in one toon - a S&B improved feint ftr/rog. I was hoping they'd make IF useful. I held out as long as possible, listening to others as they dropped it left and right (...well, maybe only left. There weren't that many dumb enough to take it to begin with). I think I was the last person on the server using IF, but I too eventually dropped it on my ftr/rog. I even turned him into a TWF! I couldn't help it, that's the way turbine seems to think all our melee toons should be (either that or a turtling intimitank, which my toon certainly is not).

So, i'm left with a guy with maximum ranks in bluff. It was fun seeing how many times I could bluff Harry, but it never really mattered since I wasn't doing enough dps to make him notice me anyway. Oh well, "a TWF i will go, a TWF I will go ...hi ho a merry O, a TWF I will go!"

I WANNA RESPEC!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!
(not really, it's only a few skill points anyway)

[Kintro]

How does IF work? I've played around with Bluff but haven't looked that one.

[Angelus_dead]

How does IF work? I've played around with Bluff but haven't looked that one.

Improved Feint swings your sword, and then all nearby monsters get Bluffed and turn away from you. It's faster than Bluff, effects many monsters, and is pretty cool if you also have Cleave.

However, it's not worth it as a feat because the number of additional sneak attacks you get is actually small: if a rogue isn't solo, he probably gets sneak attacks most of the time anyhow.

[krud]

How does IF work? I've played around with Bluff but haven't looked that one.

Don't do it! Stay away! Just say no! Don't even think about it! Your characters are already becoming gimp because you thought about it! Clear your mind while you still have a chance!

btw - I had IF and cleave on my earlier ftr/rog. It was nifty for a whole 2 levels, but around the time of GH and mob HPflation it became nothing more than a sideshow with no real benefit.

[eyepuppy]

It doesn't need to be an attack, but it shouldn't interrupt your actions the way it does. It shouldn't take any more time than Intimidate or Diplomacy.

The other fix needed for Bluff is to extend the duration; instead of working for only 1 attack, it should last for at least 2-3 seconds. (Maybe the duration can be based on how high your Bluff check was. Like set the duration at 500 ms + 100 ms per additional point rolled)

PS. The animations previously used for Bluff and Intimidate should be moved to emotes. They resemble /point and /angry, but are not quite the same. No reason to discard the animation.

I don't know about you, but that doesn't make sense to me. If you bluff someone into dropping their guard, they will raise their guard as soon as they started attacking. I wouldn't think about it for 3 seconds.

[drachine]

ya it definitely needs to be an attack.

bluff AND improved feint, otherwise it just won't be worth it.

it has to be as fast as diplomacy and intimidate. it's like they are prejudice against rogues with this one.

and yes, a change is way too long overdue and i can't blame you for being upset about investing in a skill that DDO seeems to have forgotten about. that's why i made the post because i look at my bluff skill which is also fairly high and sigh.

Bluff and Improved Feint should be attack just as fast as Diplomacy. they need to do something with it or remove it from the game.

/SIGNED

[Angelus_dead]

I don't know about you, but that doesn't make sense to me. If you bluff someone into dropping their guard, they will raise their guard as soon as they started attacking. I wouldn't think about it for 3 seconds.

That's the realistic perspective, which makes perfect sense in a world where a single knife to the face is enough to take anyone out of a fight.

But in the land of DDO there are things called "hitpoints", which mean that it's funny to think of defeating any opponent with just one attack.

Just like people can survive many serious stabs for no apparent reason, so too should they remain distracted for a longer time for no sensible reason.

[parvo]

I played with bluff for a good while and the only real use I found for it was ranging mobs and timing the bluff so as they approached, I could get one sneak attack in. Bluff does have nice range to it. But yea, it blows chunks. Improved Feint blows bigger chunks because the attack animation is just that. There's no attack, just the appearance of one. So, it's just as useless but cost more.

[QuantumFX]

OK, let me preface this by saying “No need to flame me for this! I’m tossing out some suggestions to make Bluff/Improved Feint better.”

1. Remove the animations for both effects.

2. Put Bluff and Improved Feint on different cooldown timers.

3. Give the effect the same duration as intimidate. Grant both abilities threat reduction equal to the users bluff skill when it hits a target. Bluff only grants Sneak attack for one attack. Improved Feint grants sneak attack ability for the full duration.

I think this would make bluff/I.F. useful in party situations. My only concern is that it may encourage some cookie cutter builds.

[drachine]

OK, let me preface this by saying “No need to flame me for this! I’m tossing out some suggestions to make Bluff/Improved Feint better.”

1. Remove the animations for both effects.

2. Put Bluff and Improved Feint on different cooldown timers.

3. Give the effect the same duration as intimidate. Grant both abilities threat reduction equal to the users bluff skill when it hits a target. Bluff only grants Sneak attack for one attack. Improved Feint grants sneak attack ability for the full duration.

I think this would make bluff/I.F. useful in party situations. My only concern is that it may encourage some cookie cutter builds.

Hmm. What you are describing, and I'm not saying I'm for or against sounds like the rogue special ability Opportunist which is not in DDO but the PnP version of the game. It reads.

Opportunist (Ex)
Once per round, the rogue can make an attack of opportunity against an opponent who has just been struck for damage in melee by another character. This attack counts as the rogue’s attack of opportunity for that round. Even a rogue with the Combat Reflexes feat can’t use the opportunist ability more than once per round.

I don't know what should be done to change it. I just know it is almost completely useless in it's current state and a skill and feat like Bluff and Improved Feint shouldn't be near useless.