Dear Turbine, about monk splashes and armor class..

[Emili]

having no splashed monk characters myself, i feel fairly neutral on this subject. Having ten years or so of PnP gaming under my belt, the idea behind this thread makes me want to smash my face into a boiling hot radiator to lessen the pain.

I mean, the ac bonus to wisdom is not typed for a reason. It is meant to stack. Changing that may even things out for the splash builds but hurts the monk. To suggest a nerf that slaps PnP in the face and causes Pure monks (or majority monks) to be panalized (respec option or not, A_D) is really, really stupid. Why change one of the fundamental basics behind a class because people are using it and enjoying it?

If you're playing and you get mad because the Ranger14/Monk1/Rogue1 isn't getting hit and you are, then by all means make one, and please leave the rest of us to our fun.
I'm really curious to see how everyone builds druids--imagine a Druid19/monk1 with full healing, wisdom to ac (or two levels for evasion, of course), firewalls, etc...but i imagine someone out there will complain about people using the rulles to make powerful, effective characters (god forbid) and try to get that changed too.

You certainly makes no sense... What you're saying here is if people want reliable AC in DDO then they must splash monk on a ranger and other classes are having fun getting hit because that's what non-splashed monk ranger classes are suppose to do... is get hit If they wanted to build a character who does not get hit... well then everyone should build a monk splashed character? hmmm...

We'll then that seems like a pretty reasonable viewpoint on build options in DnD... nothing else should be a viable AC build, nor should they come close... because DnD AC should solely be about a monk splashed ranger. I follow. In fact I recomend they remove all armour and shields from the game as those things really serve no purpose ... what flavor? You should not wish to play a knight in shinning armour nor a man at arms and expect any reasonable AC value... fact is if you want any warroir type class we should only have one build the ranger 18/monk 1/rogue 1... Why bother have any levels available over two for monk, fighter or paladin ... Rogue? I mean it may be fun to hide and assasinate a mob or so but really, come on, it's inefficient and redundant, a single splash on the ranger allows for trap removal and max the umd and you're set and a ranger can kill too. <- sarcasim ...

One thing you miss here in DDO... we're not dealing with DnD not even close. A DnD character skills, alignment and other attributes portrays much more into a DnD game... DDO not quite so.

[Deathseeker]

having no splashed monk characters myself, i feel fairly neutral on this subject...(snip)

If you're playing and you get mad because the Ranger14/Monk1/Rogue1 isn't getting hit and you are, then by all means make one, and please leave the rest of us to our fun.

This thought process is part of the problem. Many of us who are advocating changes are not doing it out of what will/wont benefit our own characters.

My main is a 12 rgr / 2 ftr / 2 monk. And I take full advantage of the splash rules. But I think it would be a better game if they were changed.

You don't have to play football to discuss the rules of the game, and you dont have to voluntary pay more taxes on April 15th even if you advocate raising taxes is the right thing to do.

You should seperate your view on how it will affect you vs how it will affect the game, and stop assuming others think that way as well. It would lead to a more insightful discussion whichever side of the fence your on...

[ahpook]

having no splashed monk characters myself, i feel fairly neutral on this subject. Having ten years or so of PnP gaming under my belt, the idea behind this thread makes me want to smash my face into a boiling hot radiator to lessen the pain.

I mean, the ac bonus to wisdom is not typed for a reason. It is meant to stack. Changing that may even things out for the splash builds but hurts the monk. To suggest a nerf that slaps PnP in the face and causes Pure monks (or majority monks) to be panalized (respec option or not, A_D) is really, really stupid. Why change one of the fundamental basics behind a class because people are using it and enjoying it?

I agree that DDO should stick to PnP as much as possible but IT DOESN'T. Increasing attack bonuses, Enhancements, mobs that swing at a fraction of the rate as players, Enhancements, Min level on items, UMD checks, Multi-class penalties, Enhancements, Spell Points, Monk Ki, ....

I can find a radiator for you if you want.

Not being like PnP is not a valid argument by itself. A lot of PnP only works because there is a DM managing a handful of players to keep everything in balance. This games needs to be balanced with regards to how it ACTUALLY plays. And right now, monk splashes don't play well.

If you're playing and you get mad because the Ranger14/Monk1/Rogue1 isn't getting hit and you are, then by all means make one, and please leave the rest of us to our fun.

Most people who post balance complaints are not doing it out of envy. That is dumb assumption.

[GlassCannon]

Everyone in this thread saying that a NAKED person with weapons in each hand should be better defended than a full-plate wearing shield-toting combat expert, just for taking a little training in a Monestary... is OUT OF THEIR FREAKING MIND!!

Seriously, think about it.

Again, the WIS AC bonus should scale as a Floating number, divided by the total levels, then multiplied by the Monk level. Monk Pures would not take this equation, as they would not have any Splash. (WIS/2/Level)*MonkLevel (WIS/2 is the current measure for the Bonus). Recalculations should be done on Login(And Level Up) to prevent exploitation by brilliant chinese plat farming coders.

A_D's idea for a Cap per Monk Level is also viable if you don't want a Rounded Floating Point.

[Lifespawn]

Everyone in this thread saying that a NAKED person with weapons in each hand should be better defended than a full-plate wearing shield-toting combat expert, just for taking a little training in a Monestary... is OUT OF THEIR FREAKING MIND!!

Seriously, think about it.

Again, the WIS AC bonus should scale as a Floating number, divided by the total levels, then multiplied by the Monk level. Monk Pures would not take this equation, as they would not have any Splash. (WIS/2/Level)*MonkLevel (WIS/2 is the current measure for the Bonus). Recalculations should be done on Login(And Level Up) to prevent exploitation by brilliant chinese plat farming coders.

A_D's idea for a Cap per Monk Level is also viable if you don't want a Rounded Floating Point.

a "monk" fighter could beat a Riot police officer in full gear because he could out maneuver him granted 1-2 hits from the billyclub would take the monk down and the monk would have to land way more hits on the officer but he could win.

imo high ac should be attainable by both sides the dex "avoid damage " builds and the heavy armor "deflect damage" builds i think armor has to have an innate dr depending on it's weight light 2dr- med 4dr- hvy 6dr- so a mith fullplate would still be medium and only 4dr- that would add some umph to the heavy armors "tank" ability.

[noinfo]

Everyone in this thread saying that a NAKED person with weapons in each hand should be better defended than a full-plate wearing shield-toting combat expert, just for taking a little training in a Monestary... is OUT OF THEIR FREAKING MIND!!

Seriously, think about it.

Again, the WIS AC bonus should scale as a Floating number, divided by the total levels, then multiplied by the Monk level. Monk Pures would not take this equation, as they would not have any Splash. (WIS/2/Level)*MonkLevel (WIS/2 is the current measure for the Bonus). Recalculations should be done on Login(And Level Up) to prevent exploitation by brilliant chinese plat farming coders.

A_D's idea for a Cap per Monk Level is also viable if you don't want a Rounded Floating Point.

So you are saying that a little tin suit is better protection against a dragon then getting out of its road? you have got to be kidding.

Armor in this game allows you to achieve a good ac without having to invest much in dex allowing you to spend points elsewhere. Dex builds are already penalised greatly by not being able to wear armour without penalty and then having to spend a feat to be able to use dex on weapons (we should reverse this and make str based toons use a feat to be able to use str on a finessable weapon :-p).

Best armour for dex based is bracers ac 8 rr
Best melee armor 8 +5 enchantment

and yet people complain about ir that only close the gap by 4 or 2 if the melee is wearing chaosguarde (not possible for dex builds with ac bracers)

As for wisdom bonus for ac, well they bumped 2 stats for a great ac, the problem here is the lack of any real penalty for not having strong dps after all who cares except for boss fights when the most uber weapon is finesse wop anyway? and to top it off, due to the lack of variety in boss types rangers fe kicks in anyway.

As far as splashes go what about the 2 levels of rogue that unlock UMD and can get evasion and get most locks or traps in game? UMD being the most overpowered ability in game. Or the splash pallys who get LOH and saves? or those who splash fighter for a couple of quick feats and unlocking every martial weapon and shield in game? (how many feats is that?)

Concerned that light/ no armor wearers have higher ac's? imagine if it was correctly implemented and those ray attacks needed to make a ranged touch attack, or movement penalties for heavy armour or what the difference woud be without those enhancment lines, particulay the obscene dwarf armour mastery, there is about 5 points worth of ac that s/b shouldnt be getting either.

If you want sword and board to have a higher ac? fine give them an enhancement line that allows them bonuses to ac while wearing a shield, and make it worthwhile.

Concerned about low str toons dominating kills? vary mob types, make dps more meaningful or required.

[Krell]

I agree making DPS more of a factor is a better long term strategy than figuring out how we can nuke the latest popular build.

[Deathseeker]

We always know the end of a thread's lifecycle when the debate starts centering around which would make more sense in real life...

[EinarMal]

We always know the end of a thread's lifecycle when the debate starts centering around which would make more sense in real life...

Haha...dude you know I could totally pwn you with a longbow in real life before you even got close to me with your sword. They should really increase ranged DPS.

Leave monk splashing alone...

[Riggs]

Everyone in this thread saying that a NAKED person with weapons in each hand should be better defended than a full-plate wearing shield-toting combat expert, just for taking a little training in a Monestary... is OUT OF THEIR FREAKING MIND!!

Seriously, think about it.

Again, the WIS AC bonus should scale as a Floating number, divided by the total levels, then multiplied by the Monk level. Monk Pures would not take this equation, as they would not have any Splash. (WIS/2/Level)*MonkLevel (WIS/2 is the current measure for the Bonus). Recalculations should be done on Login(And Level Up) to prevent exploitation by brilliant chinese plat farming coders.

A_D's idea for a Cap per Monk Level is also viable if you don't want a Rounded Floating Point.

How many martial artists today wear full plate? Speed overcomes armor once you get fast enough. And no armor is enough because someone always has a bigger weapon.

**and looking 2 posts up...heh

[CSFurious]

a pure monk should have higher potential ac than a splash

that is all

[feynman]

Everyone in this thread saying that a NAKED person with weapons in each hand should be better defended than a full-plate wearing shield-toting combat expert, just for taking a little training in a Monestary... is OUT OF THEIR FREAKING MIND!!

Seriously, think about it.

Again, the WIS AC bonus should scale as a Floating number, divided by the total levels, then multiplied by the Monk level. Monk Pures would not take this equation, as they would not have any Splash. (WIS/2/Level)*MonkLevel (WIS/2 is the current measure for the Bonus). Recalculations should be done on Login(And Level Up) to prevent exploitation by brilliant chinese plat farming coders.

A_D's idea for a Cap per Monk Level is also viable if you don't want a Rounded Floating Point.

But then there would be no reason to play a monk at all, splash or no.

[branmakmuffin]

We always know the end of a thread's lifecycle when the debate starts centering around which would make more sense in real life...

But we have yet to decide who is tougher, Batman or the Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam.

[Yaga_Nub]

But we have yet to decide who is tougher, Batman or the Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam.

The Reverend Mother of course.

[branmakmuffin]

The Reverend Mother of course.

You're obviously a biased anti-batist.