Upcoming Minos Legens Fix.

[Dracolich]

I myself wear a reaver ring. I have to wear my helmet it has Wizardry 6 on it and I dont have anything else with that on it yet.


BTW I hope they lock this thing soon. This is like watching a bowlegged person try to rollerskate up a hill with ball bearings rolling down on him. Its entertaining but sooner or later he is going to crash and break an eye.

[Bladededge123]

Agreed completely with the general views at large. This is no different then the developers fixing the programing errors or ect that made players able to complete the shroud, or any other quest for that matter (abbot, I'm looking at you) in a way they never intended. Its like your complaining they made such changes, because you can't use an unintended advantage.

As someone else said, this is similar to the government making a mistake, say posting a speed limit that should be slower then it is. If they change it, complaining that they corrected their mistake is silly.

This is -not- like dialing back what was once something that was created on purpose, such as barbarian's crit-rage 2. That, at least, you have some grounds to complain that you might have wasted time on a build.

Besides, at least they warned people ahead of time. Some people will complain about anything..but hey, at least its much less then it would have been if half or more of the player base logged in to find their hp 20 or whatever points lower :P

[feynman]

Actually LOTS of people have known for quite awhile that this was a BUG. Just like there was a bug with this same helm initially that if you took it off then reequiped it you got double the HP (ok I dont remember what it was exactly you had to do to get the 2x HP I just know there was something).

Let me give you another example....the Daggertooth belt --that gives you the fighter enhancements of fighter mastery II --but if you use it on a rogue while the enhancements show up in your list- you cant take FMIII cause you dont have enough fighter levels.

That's different; that's a clear case of not meeting the requirements (fighter levels).

This is exactly like Eladrin said...no temporary effect should allow you to take an enhancement...thats why you cant take ITWF if your base Dex isnt high enough---your stat item, the ML helm, a mobile robe, are all tempoarary effects.

Again, either make it work that way to begin with, inform people that it is a "bug" within a reasonable period of time, or find a fix that doesn't screw people's builds up; how difficult is this?

And like I said earlier --I know what its like to have low HP casters - I have a bunch of them. Seriously, Kestryl only has like 90 some HP without her GFL and con items and she does just freaking fine in quests --hells bells she dies less than my fighter does.

Wonderful. I'm glad you have a character that isn't affected by this. I don't care; my character is built differently.

You are seriously making a big deal about 20 HP which I and multiple other people who have played this game for more than 2 years (some of us since beta) are trying to show you are NOT CHARACTER BREAKING!

Again, NOT FOR YOUR CHARACTER. You've got a squishy party-nuker; I have (had) a tough kiting-AoE build. I didn't ask for advice, I'm not here begging for a fix, I'm letting the devs know that CHANGING THE RULES IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GAME IS CHEATING. I will, therefore, be referring to them collectively as "the Cheaters" from now on.

I hate to break it to you, but you are going to find that the times when 20 HP would have changed you from incapped vs dead are few and far between. When Im dead Im usually -100, -50 etc etc...Im almost never -15.

Which synonym for "WRONG" would you like me to use? Of course, I don't notice the times that I die like that; most of the time, I'm the one pulling off the quest with 5 HP left after everyone else dies. It's not incapp'd vs dead, it's glorious victory vs party wipe. Unfortunately, I dared make a character differently than the Cheaters expected, and so now I get the nerf bat. There's more to it, of course, but if you think I'm giving the Cheaters more nerf fodder, you've got another thing coming.

And that's another thing: If we could expect reasonable fixes to legitimate bugs and open discussion of exploits (if for no other reason than so that we would know what we're not allowed to do), there might be more conversation between the community and the Cheaters. Why should I help the Cheaters find bugs when they're just going to screw it up worse when they finally "fix" them? As it is, if I find a bug, I'm keeping it to myself.

Bottom line: The Cheaters made a mistake; people (myself included) built characters based on the mistake; the Cheaters decided that it was a bug, and are now going to punish people for breaking a rule that didn't exist when they "broke" it! It would be like your city passing a law against eating chocolate tomorrow, and then arresting you for having a candy bar yesterday.

[Yaga_Nub]

That's different; that's a clear case of not meeting the requirements (fighter levels).



Again, either make it work that way to begin with, inform people that it is a "bug" within a reasonable period of time, or find a fix that doesn't screw people's builds up; how difficult is this?



Wonderful. I'm glad you have a character that isn't affected by this. I don't care; my character is built differently.



Again, NOT FOR YOUR CHARACTER. You've got a squishy party-nuker; I have (had) a tough kiting-AoE build. I didn't ask for advice, I'm not here begging for a fix, I'm letting the devs know that CHANGING THE RULES IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GAME IS CHEATING. I will, therefore, be referring to them collectively as "the Cheaters" from now on.



Which synonym for "WRONG" would you like me to use? Of course, I don't notice the times that I die like that; most of the time, I'm the one pulling off the quest with 5 HP left after everyone else dies. It's not incapp'd vs dead, it's glorious victory vs party wipe. Unfortunately, I dared make a character differently than the Cheaters expected, and so now I get the nerf bat. There's more to it, of course, but if you think I'm giving the Cheaters more nerf fodder, you've got another thing coming.

And that's another thing: If we could expect reasonable fixes to legitimate bugs and open discussion of exploits (if for no other reason than so that we would know what we're not allowed to do), there might be more conversation between the community and the Cheaters. Why should I help the Cheaters find bugs when they're just going to screw it up worse when they finally "fix" them? As it is, if I find a bug, I'm keeping it to myself.

Bottom line: The Cheaters made a mistake; people (myself included) built characters based on the mistake; the Cheaters decided that it was a bug, and are now going to punish people for breaking a rule that didn't exist when they "broke" it! It would be like your city passing a law against eating chocolate tomorrow, and then arresting you for having a candy bar yesterday.

I think you need to go look up the word "cheating".......... or get someone to cast dispel magic or break enchantment to rid yourself of that Feeblemind spell that's affecting you.

[Sirea]

blah blah blah

LOL.

It is in fact the same exact thing. You AREN'T meeting the requirements for toughness enhancements because you only have the feat temporarily. If every item like this went by your logic, you would indeed be able to get FMIII just by equipping Daggertooth's Belt, whether you were a fighter or not.

I love how you justify everything by saying it screws up your build. If you have to make a character through bad game mechanics and exploits, then maybe you're doing something wrong. Maybe if you want your sorc to be able to survive kiting mobs through AoE, you should have beefed them up a little *legitimately* by giving them more CON, or a GFL item, or Heavy Fort (the fact that you claim this is useless speaks volumes BTW), or sacrificing a metamagic for the toughness feat. There are plenty of casters out there who do all this and guess what? They do just fine.

If 20 HP is the difference between a "squishy party nuker" and a "tough AoE kiter," then once again you are doing something wrong.

O but you're the HERO who always pulls the party through a potential wipe situation because of your extra 20 HP. I see.

[Yaga_Nub]

Second tier Negative can grant Fear Immunity. On any slot save trinket and ring.

Yeah but we were comparing the GH spell to the helm.

Undispellible fear immunity on any slot > GH.

[Milolyen]

Again, either make it work that way to begin with, inform people that it is a "bug" within a reasonable period of time, or find a fix that doesn't screw people's builds up; how difficult is this?

Not even going to bother with the rest of the post just commenting on this part. MANY people have said MANY times that they DID inform people that it was a "bug" right when it was found out and they ARE implementing a fix that does not screw with people's builds. It was NEVER ment to allow you to get access to the enhancement toughness line and THAT is what they are doing. The ONLY grounds you have to complain about this change is that it is a FLAT 20hps instead of the TOUGHNESS style of progression of 3 hps at lvl 1 and 1 for every lvl afterwards (totaling 22 hps at lvl 20 instead of 20 hps).

Milolyen

[Spisey]

I LIKE THE BOLDED COMMENTS THAT SHOW JUST HOW IGNORANT YOU ARE ABOUT THIS GAME FEY!

Seriously you should look into builds on the forums from now on. The builds brought by various people would not be gimped by this change. Sounds like the problem falls back into your court and not passed to the devs for blame.

[Aspenor]

Undispellible fear immunity on any slot > GH.

False. GH gives +4 to hit, saves, and skill checks, and 11 temporary hit points, above and beyond the fear immunity.

It's quite far from a necessity to have undispellable fear immunity. In fact one might argue that it's a wasted slot in most situations.

[The_Mighty_Cube]

The Cube demands that everyone settle down, or there will be much feasting and infracting. Do not disobey The Cube.

[Yaga_Nub]

The Cube demands that everyone settle down, or there will be much feasting and infracting. Do not disobey The Cube.

Go find a bunny to bully.






I keed! I keed!

[Yaga_Nub]

False. GH gives +4 to hit, saves, and skill checks, and 11 temporary hit points, above and beyond the fear immunity.

It's quite far from a necessity to have undispellable fear immunity. In fact one might argue that it's a wasted slot in most situations.

Only gimps like Nick and Balzuru need the +4 to hit, saves and skill checks.

If you know how to build correctly then GH is just gravy.

[Aspenor]

Only gimps like Nick and Balzuru need the +4 to hit, saves and skill checks.

Touche, and QFT

[QuantumFX]

Temporary effects should never permit access to permanent feats or enhancements. You can't drink a Bull's Strength potion with a 10 strength character to qualify for Power Attack.

Translation:
See, I’m a man of simple tastes. I like dynamite, and gunpowder…
[Tolero watches as Eladrin types his post]
…and gasoline! [Hits Submit Reply]
Do you know what all of these things have in common? They’re cheap!


And HERE’S the much needed thread theme song.

This is totally different than the Evasion fix. They said it was going to happen months ago, they’re giving fair warning before it goes live.

[Spisey]

Only gimps like Nick and Balzuru need the +4 to hit, saves and skill checks.

If you know how to build correctly then GH is just gravy.

Hey now! I resemble that remark! Besides who needs saves when you can just run the aggro back through your party members rather then worry about that. Barb sprint boost assures that Spisey stays out of range from the spells long enough for the baddies to target a party member instead

(edit) And nothing can save my sh!tty to hit but that's another rant for another hijacking of others posts for another day!

[Gratch]

Meh... this change of the rules is nothing compared to the enhancement revamp of ye olde Mod 3.3 when all the humans suddenly lost 5 permanent skills points to all skills. After going through that with two capped human builds... everything else is just meh.

One of those humans was a wizard... he has since been replaced by my Warforged Wizard with Le 360 HP of non-dyingness (pre buffs). Plus quickened self reconstructing. He does have Minos AND the toughness feat. It's like playing the game with the EASY button selected.





Unless there's Rust Monsters about... Run!

PS: I hear to combat evil warforged taking over all the wizard ranks... they're adding undead/outsider/lich/paragon rust monsters in Mod 9.

[Donnie]

How anyone thought this would continue without being changed is beyond me. It was so obviously a deviation from every other scenerio in game.

[Mhykke]

toughness, heavy fort and greater falselife = 3 things that are -mandatory- for all characters in this game, period, as designed

not taking them = foolishness

None of my casters have the toughness feat. They do more than fine.

[Riorik]

uh, two words...

PLANAR GIRD

Helm of Free will is a wasted item.

In no way am I suggesting the Helm of Free Will is better than the Minos Legens, however, any cast spell has the disadvantage of being dispellable. Turbine has drifted into a trend to mix enemies - goes all the way back to slimes & oozes mixed in with undead in the Catacombs - nobody wants to break weapons.

Beholders aren't anywhere near as uncommon as you'd think.

[Riorik]

Again, either make it work that way to begin with, inform people that it is a "bug" within a reasonable period of time, or find a fix that doesn't screw people's builds up; how difficult is this?

I think this we were informed it was a bug and in a timely fashion.

Wonderful. I'm glad you have a character that isn't affected by this. I don't care; my character is built differently.

It's not built that way anymore.