Upcoming Minos Legens Fix.

[Aspenor]

You can find the list of exploits right here.

[Milolyen]

No, they said sometime after it was implemented that it was a bug.

Rangers, rogues, and fighters tend to have toughness, already; even if they do not, they have the spare feats to take it without drastically affecting their build. Clerics, wizards, and sorcerers (the ones who actually need the extra HP) do not have the feats to spare.

3

Only if I choose to continue using the minos, which is unlikely; 38 hp was worth using the head slot, 20 significantly less so. Again, with as few HP as casters have, it makes a bigger difference than the same number of HP to melee classes.



Obviously you haven't read my posts, because I have addressed everything you mentioned 3 or 4 times, now.

Yea, the devs mess up and insist on screwing people over to cover their mistake, and I'm the one acting childishly. Hey Asp, give this guy your pom-poms.

No ... if I remember correctly the second it was mentioned on the forums that minos was allowing a char to get the enhancements without needing to have the feat they said it was a bug and unintended. We have said that many times. Rangers and monks ... yes they have enough feats that they can spare one for toughness as being a good choice specially with monks having it as a class feat ... rogues and bards not so much and would fall in with the wiz/sorc/cleric (notice how this list keeps growing and its others not just YOU?) If you choose not to wear the helm anymore then that is YOUR choice to lose those hps ... turbine has nothing to do with that as the hps still stack. You just no longer feel it is worth the slot because the bug is being taken away and that is all your arguement boils down too.

Milolyen

[Freeman]

Clerics, wizards, and sorcerers (the ones who actually need the extra HP) do not have the feats to spare.

Yeah, I always hear wizards complaining about needing more feats And rogues always have room for Toughness

Now, to leave this thread before I have to make any more Will saves to avoid being Feebleminded

[Sirea]

Yeah, I always hear wizards complaining about needing more feats

I took five metamagics on my wizard and didn't like the ones that I hadn't taken, so I got Toughness/Racial Toughness and now my elven wizard has 250 HP. Clerics whine about having to cast Heal on me rather than CSW No exploiting or Minos Legens needed

[Lifespawn]

1 word to sum up the exploiters frame of mind that thing this FIX should not happen because they like the exploiting hp's.


Pathetic

that is all

[Impaqt]

I AM TOTALLY in favor of this change, but wanted to point out a couple things I feel are inaccurate with these responses.

No, they said sometime after it was implemented that it was a bug.



Rangers, rogues, and fighters tend to have toughness, already; even if they do not, they have the spare feats to take it without drastically affecting their build. Clerics, wizards, and sorcerers (the ones who actually need the extra HP) do not have the feats to spare.
Fighters, Yes, Rogues and Rangers? Not hardly. Rangers tend to be tempest which eats up three feats right there.... THey of course want IC, and most want Power attack as well, thats 5 feats used up before toughness even becomes a consideration... that leaves jsut 2 or 3 feats to go up to level 20. Not very flexible. Rogues are pretty much the same as most people go TWF ontheir Rogue... Plus maybe UMD, Weapon FInesse, etc etc.. they are also feat starved.

3

Only if I choose to continue using the minos, which is unlikely; 38 hp was worth using the head slot, 20 significantly less so. Again, with as few HP as casters have, it makes a bigger difference than the same number of HP to melee classes.
Minos still offers Heavy Fort. Many people use it for that as well.



Obviously you haven't read my posts, because I have addressed everything you mentioned 3 or 4 times, now.

Yea, the devs mess up and insist on screwing people over to cover their mistake, and I'm the one acting childishly. Hey Asp, give this guy your pom-poms.

[frugal_gourmet]

I'll reiterate what I said earlier. The real problem is that toughness is basically linked to enhancements that pile up a ton of hitpoints. You're getting a lot from one feat. Too much, really.

[TFPAQ]

... I really hate whinny, moronic posts. The Devs, blah... blah.. oh wait ...


... Nevermind ...

[Mhykke]

Well, that's great. Unfortunately, the rules are what the game allows; changing the rules in the middle of the game is called "cheating," and DMs who insist on rewriting history because the players are smarter than him are called... well, that's against the forum rules.

Congratulations on another in a long line of overcompensating "fixes" that break more than they repair. I could digress on some of the other aspects of this game that aren't supposed to work the way they do, but I'd rather enjoy the game as long as it remains playable, and so I'd better not give you any ideas.

Look man.
I'm the biggest proponent of respecs. It's only fair.

But you have to use a bit of common sense here. Saying that whatever's in the game, on the live server, is "part of the rules", is just unrealistic. The devs are people. It's an extraordinarily complicated thing to code a 24/7 game. There will be bugs here and there. Just b/c they make it into the game doesn't mean they were intended that way. We've known for a long time this was not going to last forever.

[Sirea]

1. Exploits don't exist, obviously; if you disagree, find me the list on the forums.
2. The "*****ing" (do you pronounce that "starring"?) you are referring to is only because they keep changing their minds.
3. If you think that such a thing as a "civilized forum" exists...

Oh sorry, I forgot the /sarcasm tag on the end of that post

Your arguments are getting weaker and weaker btw, but by all means keep digging your hole.

[feynman]

Look man.
I'm the biggest proponent of respecs. It's only fair.

But you have to use a bit of common sense here. Saying that whatever's in the game, on the live server, is "part of the rules", is just unrealistic. The devs are people. It's an extraordinarily complicated thing to code a 24/7 game. There will be bugs here and there. Just b/c they make it into the game doesn't mean they were intended that way. We've known for a long time this was not going to last forever.

Mistakes are understandable; throwing people under the bus to cover them up is not.

Oh sorry, I forgot the /sarcasm tag on the end of that post

Your arguments are getting weaker and weaker btw, but by all means keep digging your hole.

Lol, so the earlier arguments were legitimate? What, exactly, is your point? Or are you just angling to make the cheerleading squad? I should warn you, the hazing is pretty rough; apparently they make you listen to Eladrin recite poetry while looking at scat porn for 6 hours.

[Mhykke]

Mistakes are understandable; throwing people under the bus to cover them up is not.

Well if you want to go that route, neither is it understandable to take advantage of a mistake, so those people that were previously taking advantage aren't really thrown under the bus. They got the benefit for whatever time the mistake was in game.

[Sirea]

Lol, so the earlier arguments were legitimate? What, exactly, is your point? Or are you just angling to make the cheerleading squad? I should warn you, the hazing is pretty rough; apparently they make you listen to Eladrin recite poetry while looking at scat porn for 6 hours.

People who bleat on and on about trying to justify cheating make me LOL. Please continue, I'm having a bad day and you're cheering me up with every post you make

[Darth_Sizzle]

I find it both amazing and hilarious that people knowingly use an exploit and then turn around and cry nerf when it gets fixed.

This isn't even new. I don't feel like searching for the post but one of Turbine's representatives, who was gracious enough to post on the forums, told everyone a long time ago that this was not intended and would eventually be fixed.

Here's an idea, take the toughness feat. Guess what happens then? You'll have 18 more HP than you do now (20 when the change goes live).

Don't kid yourselves that a stacking 20 HP tied with Heavy Fort isn't worth wearing anymore.

[Milolyen]

People who bleat on and on about trying to justify cheating make me LOL. Please continue, I'm having a bad day and you're cheering me up with every post you make

/agree

This thread is helping me through my day at work as well.

Milolyen

[darkrhavyn]

I'm an angry little girl. Wow, you got me. I am wounded. How will I ever... care?



And you obviously haven't read mine; no one has, or else they wouldn't keep making arguments that have nothing to do with what I'm saying, like that I should somehow have known that the devs were going to consider something a bug ahead of time. Psionics aren't even in the game, and you're expecting them in RL?

Actually LOTS of people have known for quite awhile that this was a BUG. Just like there was a bug with this same helm initially that if you took it off then reequiped it you got double the HP (ok I dont remember what it was exactly you had to do to get the 2x HP I just know there was something).

Let me give you another example....the Daggertooth belt --that gives you the fighter enhancements of fighter mastery II --but if you use it on a rogue while the enhancements show up in your list- you cant take FMIII cause you dont have enough fighter levels.

This is exactly like Eladrin said...no temporary effect should allow you to take an enhancement...thats why you cant take ITWF if your base Dex isnt high enough---your stat item, the ML helm, a mobile robe, are all tempoarary effects.

And like I said earlier --I know what its like to have low HP casters - I have a bunch of them. Seriously, Kestryl only has like 90 some HP without her GFL and con items and she does just freaking fine in quests --hells bells she dies less than my fighter does.

You are seriously making a big deal about 20 HP which I and multiple other people who have played this game for more than 2 years (some of us since beta) are trying to show you are NOT CHARACTER BREAKING!

I hate to break it to you, but you are going to find that the times when 20 HP would have changed you from incapped vs dead are few and far between. When Im dead Im usually -100, -50 etc etc...Im almost never -15.

[Freeman]

/agree

This thread is helping me through my day at work as well.

Milolyen

Yep, same here. I just found a really stupid mistake I made in some code. Then, I come here, read some more comments, and suddenly, I don't feel quite as stupid anymore

[Taojeff]

I AM TOTALLY in favor of this change, but wanted to point out a couple things I feel are inaccurate with these responses.

Almost every ranger I know has toughness

[feynman]

I AM TOTALLY in favor of this change, but wanted to point out a couple things I feel are inaccurate with these responses.

Fighters, Yes, Rogues and Rangers? Not hardly. Rangers tend to be tempest which eats up three feats right there.... THey of course want IC, and most want Power attack as well, thats 5 feats used up before toughness even becomes a consideration... that leaves jsut 2 or 3 feats to go up to level 20. Not very flexible. Rogues are pretty much the same as most people go TWF ontheir Rogue... Plus maybe UMD, Weapon FInesse, etc etc.. they are also feat starved.

Well, yea, if you were to go pure rogue or ranger, but who in their right mind would do that? Multiclassing gives you more and better options.

Minos still offers Heavy Fort. Many people use it for that as well.

1. Many things grant heavy fort, with the added advantage of not occupying your head slot.
2. Heavy fort is not as important to casters; mod fort is almost as useful, and much easier to get on items with other bonuses.

[Mhykke]

2. Heavy fort is not as important to casters; mod fort is almost as useful, and much easier to get on items with other bonuses.

Disagree.
If you get crit just once, you're looking at 200-300 damage from a lot of mobs. A melee can survive that. A lot of casters are dead or near dead.