Upcoming Minos Legens Fix.

[EightyFour]

My biggest problem with this is just why? Why not just leave the helm the way it is?

I mean were people complaining about this, and if they were which I don't believe that the majority was, why was a minority of people complaining?

Stuff like this to me is just annoying, I feel like Turbine is the kid that when they can't win they change the rules to give themselves an advantage or take away some of the advantages our characters have. Also I should add I don't think that Turbine is this way, but that's the appearance from my perspective.

I don't really care if it was a mistake, leave it the way it was, I don't think it was hurting anyone and it was an advantage that everyone could take part in as there was no class requirement on it.

So I'm just wondering how this was more important than continuing to upgrade and expand the content?

It just doesn't make logical sense to me, however I do appreciate the warning.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Stuff like this to me is just annoying, I feel like Turbine is the kid that when they can't win they change the rules to give themselves an advantage or take away some of the advantages our characters have. Also I should add I don't think that Turbine is this way, but that's the appearance from my perspective.

They didn't change the rules. The helm broke the DDO rule that temporary items that grant feats or stats don't count as prereqs to getting other feats or enhancements. I can't for example take Tempest based on my mobility robe or TWF on my STR based 11 dex fighter by popping on a +6 dex item

It just doesn't make logical sense to me, however I do appreciate the warning.

It does make logical sense to keep things consistant. The helm thing was clearly always a bug/unintented behavior, people who used it 99.9% knew they were taking advantage of a bug/unintended behavior. If you take advantage of a bug/unintended behavior you do so knowing that the behavior might be changed to be consistant with the rest of the game.

If due to a programming quirk the game noticed you had UMD'd on an rr elf item and suddenly gave you access to elf enhancements on your halfling wouldn't you expect them to fix that little boo boo eventually?

[feynman]

They didn't change the rules. The helm broke the DDO rule that temporary items that grant feats or stats don't count as prereqs to getting other feats or enhancements. I can't for example take Tempest based on my mobility robe or TWF on my STR based 11 dex fighter by popping on a +6 dex item



It does make logical sense to keep things consistant. The helm thing was clearly always a bug/unintented behavior, people who used it 99.9% knew they were taking advantage of a bug/unintended behavior. If you take advantage of a bug/unintended behavior you do so knowing that the behavior might be changed to be consistant with the rest of the game.

If due to a programming quirk the game noticed you had UMD'd on an rr elf item and suddenly gave you access to elf enhancements on your halfling wouldn't you expect them to fix that little boo boo eventually?

"GO, DEVS, GO! NERF, DEVS, NERF! KEEP THE CASUAL GAMERS OFF OUR TURF!"

Let's give our forum cheerleaders a hand!

[Aspenor]

[smatt]

My biggest problem with this is just why? Why not just leave the helm the way it is?

I mean were people complaining about this, and if they were which I don't believe that the majority was, why was a minority of people complaining?

Stuff like this to me is just annoying, I feel like Turbine is the kid that when they can't win they change the rules to give themselves an advantage or take away some of the advantages our characters have. Also I should add I don't think that Turbine is this way, but that's the appearance from my perspective.

I don't really care if it was a mistake, leave it the way it was, I don't think it was hurting anyone and it was an advantage that everyone could take part in as there was no class requirement on it.

So I'm just wondering how this was more important than continuing to upgrade and expand the content?

It just doesn't make logical sense to me, however I do appreciate the warning.

Bah come on get on the Nerf team No seriously dude, I rally do believe that they need to bring back the DOWNSIDES of playing certain classes. There are too many toons out there taking the easy way......... Each class should have it's weaknesses and some classes should really struggle to have HP's.

[Dracolich]

"GO, DEVS, GO! NERF, DEVS, NERF! KEEP THE CASUAL GAMERS OFF OUR TURF!"

Let's give our forum cheerleaders a hand!

You know being an ******* wont get your point across, it only makes you look like a child. Perhaps some anger managment classes. Maybe somones mom didnt give them the "My Little Pony" they wanted that their neighbor had when they were in brownie scouts. Get over your self importance and move on, you were exploiting a known bug and now they are fixing it.

BTW if you think some of us are cheerleaders you obviously have not read much of our posts in other threads.

[Aspenor]

BTW if you think some of us are cheerleaders you obviously have not read much of our posts in other threads.

FWIW, he hasn't even read my posts in THIS thread.

[feynman]

You know being an ******* wont get your point across, it only makes you look like a child. Perhaps some anger managment classes. Maybe somones mom didnt give them the "My Little Pony" they wanted that their neighbor had when they were in brownie scouts. Get over your self importance and move on, you were exploiting a known bug and now they are fixing it.

I'm an angry little girl. Wow, you got me. I am wounded. How will I ever... care?

BTW if you think some of us are cheerleaders you obviously have not read much of our posts in other threads.

And you obviously haven't read mine; no one has, or else they wouldn't keep making arguments that have nothing to do with what I'm saying, like that I should somehow have known that the devs were going to consider something a bug ahead of time. Psionics aren't even in the game, and you're expecting them in RL?

[Aspenor]

And you obviously haven't read mine; no one has, or else they wouldn't keep making arguments that have nothing to do with what I'm saying, like that I should somehow have known that the devs were going to consider something a bug ahead of time. Psionics aren't even in the game, and you're expecting them in RL?

Uh, Eladrin posted a LONG TIME AGO that this was an unintended bug, and would be fixed.

Too bad you can't read this.

[feynman]

Bah come on get on the Nerf team No seriously dude, I rally do believe that they need to bring back the DOWNSIDES of playing certain classes. There are too many toons out there taking the easy way......... Each class should have it's weaknesses and some classes should really struggle to have HP's.

I'll tell you what: The next time you see a red/purple named caster with as few hit points as ANY player character, I will acknowledge your point; but that won't happen, will it? No, the red-named wizard has more HP than a party full of WF barbs, and I'm the one who's being ridiculous?

[Tanka]

Uh, Eladrin posted a LONG TIME AGO that this was an unintended bug, and would be fixed.

Too bad you can't read this.

Quoted for Aspenor.

[Milolyen]

I'm an angry little girl. Wow, you got me. I am wounded. How will I ever... care?



And you obviously haven't read mine; no one has, or else they wouldn't keep making arguments that have nothing to do with what I'm saying, like that I should somehow have known that the devs were going to consider something a bug ahead of time. Psionics aren't even in the game, and you're expecting them in RL?

Lets see - what you are saying is they are just now going back to change something that they have said all along was an unintended benefit of the Minos Legens in order to nerf mages. Did I get that right? Points that have been made.

1. They said from the start that it was a bug and they intend to fix it. They where just not sure when due to the fact that it was not a high priority (and you have tried to point out ladder bug still not being fixed several times to wich we keep pointing out that that is a case by case issue and if you run into that you should bug report that ladder).

2. With the change in toughness it means more people are able to exploit that bug (that includes other classes other than just the wiz/sorc classes ... ranger, rogues, cleric, monks ... all classes are now able to exploit the bug not just Fighters, Barbs, and Pallies along with dwarves.) That right there is cause to move it higher up on the priority list.

3. With this change you will lose 18 hps at lvl 16 not 38 ... and at 20 you will lose 22 hps if it had not been changed. Is that really worth all the crying you have been doing? Minos legens 20 hps will still stack with all other forms so that means all you lose is the 20 enhancement hps that you currently gain from the feat. However it gives 20 hps instead of the 18 at lvl 16 which means you will get 2 of the 20 back that you lost.


No I have read your posts as well as many of the others that dissagree with you. You just fail to see what we are saying and seem to be caught in this woes me attitude about a fix to a bug that they said was coming.

Milolyen

[feynman]

Lets see - what you are saying is they are just now going back to change something that they have said all along was an unintended benefit of the Minos Legens in order to nerf mages. Did I get that right? Points that have been made.

1. They said from the start that it was a bug and they intend to fix it. They where just not sure when due to the fact that it was not a high priority (and you have tried to point out ladder bug still not being fixed several times to wich we keep pointing out that that is a case by case issue and if you run into that you should bug report that ladder).

No, they said sometime after it was implemented that it was a bug.

2. With the change in toughness it means more people are able to exploit that bug (that includes other classes other than just the wiz/sorc classes ... ranger, rogues, cleric, monks ... all classes are now able to exploit the bug not just Fighters, Barbs, and Pallies along with dwarves.) That right there is cause to move it higher up on the priority list.

Rangers, rogues, and fighters tend to have toughness, already; even if they do not, they have the spare feats to take it without drastically affecting their build. Clerics, wizards, and sorcerers (the ones who actually need the extra HP) do not have the feats to spare.

3

. With this change you will lose 18 hps at lvl 16 not 38 ... and at 20 you will lose 22 hps if it had not been changed. Is that really worth all the crying you have been doing? Minos legens 20 hps will still stack with all other forms so that means all you lose is the 20 enhancement hps that you currently gain from the feat. However it gives 20 hps instead of the 16 at lvl 16 which means you will get 2 of the 20 back that you lost.

Only if I choose to continue using the minos, which is unlikely; 38 hp was worth using the head slot, 20 significantly less so. Again, with as few HP as casters have, it makes a bigger difference than the same number of HP to melee classes.

No I have read your posts as well as many of the others that dissagree with you. You just fail to see what we are saying and seem to be caught in this woes me attitude about a fix to a bug that they said was coming.

Milolyen

Obviously you haven't read my posts, because I have addressed everything you mentioned 3 or 4 times, now.

Yea, the devs mess up and insist on screwing people over to cover their mistake, and I'm the one acting childishly. Hey Asp, give this guy your pom-poms.

[Eladrin]

Temporary effects should never permit access to permanent feats or enhancements. You can't drink a Bull's Strength potion with a 10 strength character to qualify for Power Attack.

[Jarka]

Hey Asp!!

Ummmm...


Aahhh...


EErrmmm....

...you forgot the crackers....

[Aspenor]

The longer you insist on believing that simply because something made it live, that it was "implemented." This was, and always has been, an unintended bug created by the Minos Legens helm.

Here's an idea, stop whining and spend the time to reroll your gimped sorc.

[feynman]

Temporary effects should never permit access to permanent feats or enhancements. You can't drink a Bull's Strength potion with a 10 strength character to qualify for Power Attack.

Well, that's great. Unfortunately, the rules are what the game allows; changing the rules in the middle of the game is called "cheating," and DMs who insist on rewriting history because the players are smarter than him are called... well, that's against the forum rules.

Congratulations on another in a long line of overcompensating "fixes" that break more than they repair. I could digress on some of the other aspects of this game that aren't supposed to work the way they do, but I'd rather enjoy the game as long as it remains playable, and so I'd better not give you any ideas.

[Sirea]

People are *****ing about not being able to exploit anymore? Who woulda thought such a thing could happen on our oh so civilized forums....

[feynman]

People are *****ing about not being able to exploit anymore? Who woulda thought such a thing could happen on our oh so civilized forums....

1. Exploits don't exist, obviously; if you disagree, find me the list on the forums.
2. The "*****ing" (do you pronounce that "starring"?) you are referring to is only because they keep changing their minds.
3. If you think that such a thing as a "civilized forum" exists...

[Lorien_the_First_One]

"GO, DEVS, GO! NERF, DEVS, NERF! KEEP THE CASUAL GAMERS OFF OUR TURF!"

Let's give our forum cheerleaders a hand!

lol... you keep using those great arguments.... this effects casual gamers and elite the same way... um, and if you ask anyone in my guild I'm sure they will tell you I don't qualify as elite

Well, that's great. Unfortunately, the rules are what the game allows; changing the rules in the middle of the game is called "cheating," and DMs who insist on rewriting history because the players are smarter than him are called... well, that's against the forum rules.

Congratulations on another in a long line of overcompensating "fixes" that break more than they repair. I could digress on some of the other aspects of this game that aren't supposed to work the way they do, but I'd rather enjoy the game as long as it remains playable, and so I'd better not give you any ideas.

But what you fail to understand is that the helm broke the rule, the DM didn't do anything wrong. You are like someone whining about it not being fair that you got a speeding ticket because you were speeding on that street for a year and no one ever stopped you before.