Upcoming Minos Legens Fix.

[feynman]

How many SP does MT give you? Right, a negligible amount.

85 SP is negligible?

MT is good for some Wizards. There are far better feats (like your ever-so-needed Toughness) to take than MT.

Yea, and heighten was already on the list; one more feat to agonize over.

I have FoP on my Fighter. My Sorc won't take it at all.

Anyone else notice how many mobs in the new zones like to cast greater command?

[feynman]

You're upset... that's fine.

But mental toughness is not important for sorcerers. Especially sorcerers that thought it was a good idea to use con as a dump stat.

Who uses con as a dump stat?

[bobbryan2]

85 SP is negligible?

Let's see... I'm at 2345 right now without it... (not even maxed out enhancements or even maxed charisma)... and... 85 would be 3.6% increase.

Vs

38 HP into 150... a 25% increase.

[feynman]

Let's see... I'm at 2345 right now without it... (not even maxed out enhancements or even maxed charisma)... and... 85 would be 3.6% increase.

Vs

38 HP into 150... a 25% increase.

That's nice, but not everyone has the greensteel chastity belt; I'm 400 SP short of you. Granted, percentage-wise, it still comes out different, but you have to weight them differently, too: Given a choice between losing half your SP or half your HP, which would you take?

[Tanka]

85 SP is negligible?

Compared to the extra HP that you claim will break your build?

Yea, and heighten was already on the list; one more feat to agonize over.

lol

Anyone else notice how many mobs in the new zones like to cast greater command?

Not many, all in all.

Who uses con as a dump stat?

What's your Con, since you claim losing 20HP is going to kill your build?

[feynman]

Not many, all in all.

Enough that I noticed it when I swapped out FoP last time; beyond that, I don't have to worry about fear, etc as much as others, or use up a slot on an item.

What's your Con, since you claim losing 20HP is going to kill your build?

Base 12, +6 item. And if it were only 20 HP, then I would be OK, but it's closer to 40 (18 + 10 + 10). All that for 3 APs that would be spent on useless enhancements otherwise.

Instead, I get to spend another zillion plat re-gearing since the minos is worthless, now.

[Tanka]

Enough that I noticed it when I swapped out FoP last time; beyond that, I don't have to worry about fear, etc as much as others, or use up a slot on an item.

There's this spell called Greater Heroism. It makes you immune to all Fear effects, and also adds 4 to all saves.

Base 12, +6 item. And if it were only 20 HP, then I would be OK, but it's closer to 40 (18 + 10 + 10). All that for 3 APs that would be spent on useless enhancements otherwise.

Instead, I get to spend another zillion plat re-gearing since the minos is worthless, now.

You still get 20HP from the Legens. You just don't get to spend 3AP to get another 20HP out of it.

Also; Legens is not worthless. Far from, in fact. Up until you craft a Mineral 2 item (which, btw, stacks with the Legens as-is), it's one of the best helms in the game.

[feynman]

There's this spell called Greater Heroism. It makes you immune to all Fear effects, and also adds 4 to all saves.

So now I have to swap out a level 6 spell; ever hear of infinite regression?

You still get 20HP from the Legens. You just don't get to spend 3AP to get another 20HP out of it.

Also; Legens is not worthless. Far from, in fact. Up until you craft a Mineral 2 item (which, btw, stacks with the Legens as-is), it's one of the best helms in the game.

No, 38 HP was good, 20 is not worth wasting the head slot on; granted that most of the other helmets suck, too, but I could take a 6 cha helm and get a decent cloak. My plan was to keep the minos and get a 6 cha GS weapon, but now that's hosed as well.

[Tanka]

So now I have to swap out a level 6 spell; ever hear of infinite regression?

Scrolls. They last 11 minutes.

No, 38 HP was good, 20 is not worth wasting the head slot on; granted that most of the other helmets suck, too, but I could take a 6 cha helm and get a decent cloak. My plan was to keep the minos and get a 6 cha GS weapon, but now that's hosed as well.

Min2 Helm
Cha 9 GS weapon
Reaver's Napkin

I mean, sure, it'll take 24 larges to make the helm. Until then, Legens FTW.

[Yurtrus]

OMG! Call a Whambulance!

The imaginary rescue vehicle that will rescue you from someone's incessant whining over a trivial matter. Used mockingly, but in good humor.

Get iT! Good!

[TFPAQ]

**** and Moan sounds like you should be the founder ...


grow up and move on ... sheesh ....

[feynman]

**** and Moan sounds like you should be the founder ...


grow up and move on ... sheesh ....

That's the first good idea I've heard yet; moving on.

Darkfall is sounding better and better.

[query]

Can I have your stuff?

(I called it first folks!)

Gee, let me give the same reply I gave for all those who were told eventually evasion would not work in heavy armor or medium armor *pulls out world's smallest violin and plays for the Batme....sorcerer.*

Somehow when they mentioned this for 9+ months (both things) nobody complained about an OBVIOUS exploit until it was FIXED.

And even with my bonus feats, my wiz takes things like MT, IMT and the usual suspects of metamagic feats. Also, since he is multiclassed (making him gimped of course by many people's opinion already) he's not at 100% casting level yet got only 4 HP more.

No GS item at all dealing w HP, same GFL and +6 item, and he has 220 HP before buffs.

Gee, he even wore the Totem helm instead back in the day before his GS wizardry helm was used.

So, I have as much sympathy for this as I did for the evasion which was, "Vital to save the HP loss and will now mean the death of my build."

Yeah, you're ruined.


Tell ya what:

I can even TANK with my mighty 220 HP and buffs. Some spells i even can use from scrolls.

When you are actually fighting the bosses if your magic isn't good enough (mine's fine I just do variety,) THEN MAYBE I'll be concerned.

Oh, did I mention he's a 28 point build unlike the free stat points you got minus the con?

The issue is just like those who claim X is the only way to win Y raid and if you don't have X, you can't play.

Funny how we prove them wrong there too.


But enjoy Darkfall, as I'm sure they NEVER have any bugs, fix things promply and their combat system is superior.....just like AOC was going to be.


Okay, since I'm done here, I think I'll go back to yet ANOTHER non-1750 favor server and see if i can make 400 favor for my Drow pure pallie build....which must be DOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!!! because of the con hit and ("obviously") I rely on "NO tactics...... "


Oh and in no way are we saying we're superior or fanbois of the company,

we just learn to prepare for plan B before plan A stops working...especially if announced for about 9 months...6 months for you and your vacation.

That's the first good idea I've heard yet; moving on.

Darkfall is sounding better and better.

[Treerat]

Can I have your stuff?

(I called it first folks!)

Gee, let me give the same reply I gave for all those who were told eventually evasion would not work in heavy armor or medium armor *pulls out world's smallest violin and plays for the Batme....sorcerer.*

Somehow when they mentioned this for 9+ months (both things) nobody complained about an OBVIOUS exploit until it was FIXED.

It wasn't the evasion change that gutted Batmen-style builds; most took a 13 dex for Dodge, +1 tome and +6 item let us use a mithril BP for a loss of 1 AC while still having Evasion. It was the changes to the enhancement system that shifted level breaks, removed some key enhancements, and the inflation of mob to-hit and damage that shelved most of us.

Oh and for those still butt-hurt about that type of character: the only "specialty" of a Batman was intimidate-tanking via AC (ie making you sp-sponges actually look semi-competent). A rogue who didn't try to make due on 12 int after items could easily equal (if not surpass) their trap finding/ disarming, lock picking, and UMD skills. A melee with a focus on damage could do more damage, and a caster was better at whatever their specialty was. The Batman was effective because he could fill whatever gap was in the group, and was a walking "oh D20 gods save us!" button.

And yes I'm happy to see that this long-standing bug is finally going to be put to rest. Pity people were warned though. I would have savored the screams of all the self righteous hypocrites when their precious barbarian with crit rage two ended up losing that because of they were abusing a bug.

[Angelus_dead]

It wasn't the evasion change that gutted Batmen-style builds; most took a 13 dex for Dodge, +1 tome and +6 item let us use a mithril BP for a loss of 1 AC while still having Evasion. It was the changes to the enhancement system that shifted level breaks, removed some key enhancements, and the inflation of mob to-hit and damage that shelved most of us.

More specifically, it was that when the level cap went up past 10, it became possible to have Ran9 Evasion in a build along with a couple other splashed levels (like pal2 or monk1). The ranger class didn't work powerfully until level 12 (because it couldn't get GTWF).

[Capn]

For those concerned about not having enough feats to pick up toughness, remember that you'll get a new feat at level 18.

[Yaga_Nub]

For those concerned about not having enough feats to pick up toughness, remember that you'll get a new feat at level 18.

Maybe sooner depending on your class/multi-class breakdown.

[Lehrman]

Originally Posted by feynman
Base 12, +6 item. And if it were only 20 HP, then I would be OK, but it's closer to 40 (18 + 10 + 10). All that for 3 APs that would be spent on useless enhancements otherwise.


If I am reading this right your HPs should be sitting at about 198 post fix. 208 if u get your 150 argo favor.

198 = 20 (base for all lvl1s) +64 (sorc levels) +64 (con bonus) + 20 (Minos post-fix) + 30 (Greater False life)

Minos tome is -18 hps to your current total -20 from lost enhancements, then +20 from the redesigned minos helm that has been announced to stack with EVERYTHING.

If 18 hit points is enough for you to want to quit the game, then by all means don't let the door hit you where the good Lord split you.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

With the helm, I get close to 200, and my feats are max, emp, MT, spell pen, and FoP; which of those can I live without? (hint: the answer is not "max," "emp," "MT," "spell pen," or "FoP.")

It's fantastic that your build wasn't based on the helm; what are you going to say when they decide to "balance" whatever it is that makes your sorc exceptional, if he is?

No one feat or feature can make or break a decent build. MT is a good example of a feat that isn't critical, most sorcs have more SP than they use in most situations. Given that the game is less of a nukefest than it used to be, you could also chose either max or emp. You could also live with 200 HP - which should really be enough anyway in most situations.

85 SP is negligible?

Yes, it is. You should be sitting at a minimum of 2400 without it. It might add one or two casts at best, it should rarely matter. Staying alive matters more.

Who uses con as a dump stat?

With a con of 12, you pretty much did.

That's nice, but not everyone has the greensteel chastity belt; I'm 400 SP short of you. Granted, percentage-wise, it still comes out different, but you have to weight them differently, too: Given a choice between losing half your SP or half your HP, which would you take?

Something is wrong with your build... GS doesn't generate anything close to 400SP, although you seem to have a hate on for it as you blame GS for everything. Do you not have any SP items on you? Not even a magi item?

So now I have to swap out a level 6 spell; ever hear of infinite regression?

Ever hear of scrolls?

No, 38 HP was good, 20 is not worth wasting the head slot on; granted that most of the other helmets suck, too, but I could take a 6 cha helm and get a decent cloak. My plan was to keep the minos and get a 6 cha GS weapon, but now that's hosed as well.

The helm gives you 18HP AND greater fort, which is a must have in some slot anyway. Aside from rare items, this is your best fort item available.

[query]

where they censor people for posting things like "loving locks" trying to donate hair for Lukemia Kids?

Sounds like a friendly move.