Upcoming Minos Legens Fix.

[smatt]

Meh... this change of the rules is nothing compared to the enhancement revamp of ye olde Mod 3.3 when all the humans suddenly lost 5 permanent skills points to all skills. After going through that with two capped human builds... everything else is just meh.

One of those humans was a wizard... he has since been replaced by my Warforged Wizard with Le 360 HP of non-dyingness (pre buffs). Plus quickened self reconstructing. He does have Minos AND the toughness feat. It's like playing the game with the EASY button selected.





Unless there's Rust Monsters about... Run!

PS: I hear to combat evil warforged taking over all the wizard ranks... they're adding undead/outsider/lich/paragon rust monsters in Mod 9.

Wait till you see my new human Wizzy ...... At my usual pace, she should be capped by 2012

Seriously though, I did roll her up before this news about the Minos came out.... But now it seems like a decent enough build with the extra feat. Never going to be a big end game solo toon... More of a party multiplier style toon..... I just can't bring myself into the toaster thing... They make really good bank toons though, and do a good job of blocking at AH



And to Fey:
As for the rest of this thread.... Everything's been said, You will just continue along the same lines. But I must say that since you said you took the toon from level 6 to 16 in 2 weeks... Well dude re-roll and create a REAL "Optimized" Sorcy, it should only take you 3weeks...... Then, you can hit the Shroud and the other raids to PROPERLY equip an "Optimized" caster class toon. That really stands up under the pressure of CR 25-30 mobs. But refusing to hit the high level raids and Shroud crafting absolutely will not create an optimized toon at this stage of the game..... Playable yes, optimized not a chance.... Or you can do as I and a lot of other players do with our very old, but well equipped toons that we refuse to dump just beacause the game moved on a bit...... Adjust them, tweak them, and play them very well, to help make up for the extreme gimps that they are..... I've taken so many hits from game changes I lost count... Who cares I still play my orignal 28 point mutt batman like build very effectively in the highest level content in the game.... FEY, YOU CAN DO IT MAAAAAN!

[Frodo_Lives]

What really makes me laugh is that a few pages back it was mentioned that this now vastly under hit pointed character was run from level 5 to level 16 in two weeks! So to start fresh at level one it would take what two weeks and a day? It's not like this is a character that has been religiously worked on for 2+ years.

While that may not mean anything, it did amuse me. But then again after reading all the self righteous indignation about how 18 hps will ruin a character, heavy fort not being really worthwhile, lots of better options than the Minos helm, and all the other drivel that has been spouted I have a hard time taking this thread seriously.

[Tanka]

Yeah but we were comparing the GH spell to the helm.

Undispellible fear immunity on any slot > GH.

The SR on the helm is so pitiful it isn't worth the slot. At its ML? Maybe. At higher levels where GH is far more prevalent and you're not prone to being dispelled all the time? Hardly useful at all. Plus, at that point, you can put T2 Neg on a helm, or anywhere else.

The only places where static fear immunity > GH are Desert and Abbot. And that's only certain quests in the Desert, not all of them.

[Angelus_dead]

The only places where static fear immunity > GH are Desert and Abbot. And that's only certain quests in the Desert, not all of them.

Fear-immune items would be more helpful if DDO followed the rules and disallowed drinking potions while feared. Remove Fear pots really kill what's supposed to be a dangerous CC.

[Tanka]

Fear-immune items would be more helpful if DDO followed the rules and disallowed drinking potions while feared. Remove Fear pots really kill what's supposed to be a dangerous CC.

Being that they changed Remove Fear pots into clickies, you can no longer drink them, both while Feared and Raged.

Unless, of course, I'm misremembering, which is entirely possible.

[Lifespawn]

Being that they changed Remove Fear pots into clickies, you can no longer drink them, both while Feared and Raged.

Unless, of course, I'm misremembering, which is entirely possible.

you are correct cannot be used while feared or raged

[Angelus_dead]

Being that they changed Remove Fear pots into clickies, you can no longer drink them, both while Feared and Raged.

Yep. That adds several more places to the list of situations where Fear Immunity items have value: anywhere you might die and be rezzed near a feary monster. That particularly means Hound of Xoriat, where if a cleric dies from bees, he might be insta-feared upon being rezzed.

[Tanka]

Yep. That adds several more places to the list of situations where Fear Immunity items have value: anywhere you might die and be rezzed near a feary monster. That particularly means Hound of Xoriat, where if a cleric dies from bees, he might be insta-feared upon being rezzed.

I've only "tanked" the Hound on Tanka, who has built-in Fear Immunity, which explains my lack of foresight on that account.

[smatt]

What really makes me laugh is that a few pages back it was mentioned that this now vastly under hit pointed character was run from level 5 to level 16 in two weeks! So to start fresh at level one it would take what two weeks and a day? It's not like this is a character that has been religiously worked on for 2+ years.

While that may not mean anything, it did amuse me. But then again after reading all the self righteous indignation about how 18 hps will ruin a character, heavy fort not being really worthwhile, lots of better options than the Minos helm, and all the other drivel that has been spouted I have a hard time taking this thread seriously.

I missed the heavy fort part...... Um, I'm wondering if such a toon runs anything beyond level 12 quests..... 2oo and a few HP+ Mod fort = *ding in anything above that... OK I'm out

[EightyFour]

I guess I should say that I'm annoyed. I know these changes happen, I know there is nothing I can do about it other than to voice my frustrations at a change like this. I don't even see this as being a huge change, now crit. rage one and two is a huge change, but Turbine is allowing people to keep this as long as they give up the ability to re spec. enhancements. But it's your choice.

So I imagine that a least a few people here even though they support the change can understand at least being annoyed at a change like this one, or maybe even other changes that have been made. I feel like Turbine is friend that does a lot of nice things for you, but they start to annoy you with some of the things they do, no matter what the good things are that this friend does for you, you get annoyed enough eventuality you are not going to not want to be friends with the person anymore.

This is a very small thing, it doesn't annoy me as much as other changes, however I'm just pointing out that this is something that I don't like to see happen on a consistent bases.

[Junts]

None of my casters have the toughness feat. They do more than fine.

I just cant imagine playing something without 300 hp at 16. The sheer idea makes me cringe.

[sephiroth1084]

I just cant imagine playing something without 300 hp at 16. The sheer idea makes me cringe.

My wizard has 248 HP before, Rage, and rarely dies in any quest. Skillful play and the right buffs can make up for lowish HP.

[smatt]

I guess I should say that I'm annoyed. I know these changes happen, I know there is nothing I can do about it other than to voice my frustrations at a change like this. I don't even see this as being a huge change, now crit. rage one and two is a huge change, but Turbine is allowing people to keep this as long as they give up the ability to re spec. enhancements. But it's your choice.

So I imagine that a least a few people here even though they support the change can understand at least being annoyed at a change like this one, or maybe even other changes that have been made. I feel like Turbine is friend that does a lot of nice things for you, but they start to annoy you with some of the things they do, no matter what the good things are that this friend does for you, you get annoyed enough eventuality you are not going to not want to be friends with the person anymore.

This is a very small thing, it doesn't annoy me as much as other changes, however I'm just pointing out that this is something that I don't like to see happen on a consistent bases.

Oh come on now dude..... So the game should stay just as it is now? They should never fix things that might've not turned out the way envisioned? The only game changes should be ones that make classes/races MORE powerful?

[Dracolich]

Casters can actually cast spells while raged? I thought acording to the rules you cant do anything that involves concentration as in casting spells using wands or scrolls. As far as I can tell the real rage should be what we call "Madstone Rage" That has the effect on spellcasting the real rage should have. I am sorry spellcaster should not be alloud to cast spells while raged and thus I would not even count raged HP in a HP total.

[feynman]

And to Fey:
As for the rest of this thread.... Everything's been said, You will just continue along the same lines. But I must say that since you said you took the toon from level 6 to 16 in 2 weeks... Well dude re-roll and create a REAL "Optimized" Sorcy, it should only take you 3weeks...... Then, you can hit the Shroud and the other raids to PROPERLY equip an "Optimized" caster class toon. That really stands up under the pressure of CR 25-30 mobs. But refusing to hit the high level raids and Shroud crafting absolutely will not create an optimized toon at this stage of the game..... Playable yes, optimized not a chance.... Or you can do as I and a lot of other players do with our very old, but well equipped toons that we refuse to dump just beacause the game moved on a bit...... Adjust them, tweak them, and play them very well, to help make up for the extreme gimps that they are..... I've taken so many hits from game changes I lost count... Who cares I still play my orignal 28 point mutt batman like build very effectively in the highest level content in the game.... FEY, YOU CAN DO IT MAAAAAN!

1. I got 11 levels in 2 weeks over christmas break; it helps when you can play 8-12 hours a day. That will not be an option for at least 4 months, more likely 11.

2. I am no longer worried about optimizing this toon; I will use it to farm shroud components for my character that has not been nerfed yet.

3. My only decent character is a 28 point hybrid DPS/tank; my 32-point builds are a monk (innately gimped), this sorc (freshly gimped), and my 28-point cleric that is set up entirely wrong (1st character). It's getting old quick.

4. The main attraction of the game to me is the mathematical basis for abilities; it is theoretically possible to design a character to be optimal in some fashion, but rules changes make this an exercise in futility.

Edit: Thanks for deleting half my post!

Devs = cheaters, mods = censors

[PhoenixFire31]

1. I got 11 levels in 2 weeks over christmas break; it helps when you can play 8-12 hours a day. That will not be an option for at least 4 months, more likely 11.

2. I am no longer worried about optimizing this toon; I will use it to farm shroud components for my character that has not been nerfed yet.

3. My only decent character is a 28 point hybrid DPS/tank; my 32-point builds are a monk (innately gimped), this sorc (freshly gimped), and my 28-point cleric that is set up entirely wrong (1st character). It's getting old quick.

4. The main attraction of the game to me is the mathematical basis for abilities; it is theoretically possible to design a character to be optimal in some fashion, but rules changes make this an exercise in futility.

>edit before cube eats<

[Yaga_Nub]

....

4. The main attraction of the game to me is the mathematical basis for abilities; it is theoretically possible to design a character to be optimal in some fashion, but rules changes make this an exercise in futility.

Okay feynman let me try to put this change another way and see if you still think it's an issue.

If the 3.5 books were published with mistakes and Wizards put on their website an errata sheet that corrected the mistakes but since you didn't print them out and put them next to the pages that they corrected, would it still be changing the rules? Or would it be that you've chosen to ignore the correct language of the rule because you prefer to use what was incorrectly printed as the language of the rule in the first place?

[feynman]

Okay feynman let me try to put this change another way and see if you still think it's an issue.

If the 3.5 books were published with mistakes and Wizards put on their website an errata sheet that corrected the mistakes but since you didn't print them out and put them next to the pages that they corrected, would it still be changing the rules? Or would it be that you've chosen to ignore the correct language of the rule because you prefer to use what was incorrectly printed as the language of the rule in the first place?

First of all, have you ever played a PnP game where the book rules were followed exactly? I haven't; the DM would make changes as he or she felt appropriate.

Now, you might think that this makes a parallel to our current situation, and it does, but not in the way that you think:

Imagine playing a PnP campaign where you have leveled up a character over the course of many sessions based on the house rules. The last session you played, one of the house rules allowed you to circumvent a trap in a way that the DM did not intend, so the DM decides to change the rules, incidentally making your character design subpar, and does not allow you to retroactively correct your build.

This is called "cheating," and I will point it out when I see it.

[PhoenixFire31]

This is called "cheating," and I will point it out when I see it.

Funny I thought this was called balance...

And yet this is STILL not what is happening here. What is happening here is fixing a bug, but then I guess they should never have fixed those handwraps because it made it to game so MUST have been intended...

BTW: learn to build better because building around loot/enhancements is a very stupid thing to do.

[Hendrik]

Okay feynman let me try to put this change another way and see if you still think it's an issue.

If the 3.5 books were published with mistakes and Wizards put on their website an errata sheet that corrected the mistakes but since you didn't print them out and put them next to the pages that they corrected, would it still be changing the rules? Or would it be that you've chosen to ignore the correct language of the rule because you prefer to use what was incorrectly printed as the language of the rule in the first place?

Hey Yaga, might want to use an in-game example;

Lava. Since it was coded and put in game to be so loud, has to be intentional. So, no reason to fix it. That must be the way it is intended to sound.

Same with Handwraps. They were put in game this way, so their functionality has to be intended to work as they do. No reason to change that either.

This can go on and on...

Ok, I have to come clean about the Lava; The Lava is too loud because the lava gods are angry and demand sacrifices!