Upcoming Minos Legens Fix.

[Aspenor]

i know feyn has me ignored, so, does anybody else find it hilarious that he thinks a drow is an optimized sorcerer?

[nytewolf]

Regarding these comments. If your going to quote someone on their posts make sure your quoting the right person. To make a mistake like this makes you look foolish.

Nice; passive aggressive with that unmistakable patronizing tone. Gourmet trolling, congratulations.



Irony, thy name is forum troll.

[Borror0]

Sorry to embarrass myself because I'm sick of my characters becoming obsolete as soon as they cap, but that's what happens when the rules change in the middle of the game.

Hey-oh, this is a MMO. This is bound to happen! Don't like it, don't play MMOs.

Your characters are not useless, unless by 'useless' you mean 'non-optimized for the current end game content'. Now, if you'd like to have the ability to respec your character, I won't disagree. However, whining because your character is less powerful than he once was is silly. You're not having fun, fine. But the game isn't built only around you, you have to understand that if something is done to improve the game, it's life.

Value the change on the benefit it has on the game, not how it affects you. Your problem, it seems, could be solved by character respec.

Ask for that, don't pointlessly rant. Your character isn't 'gimped'.

EDIT: Oh, Aspenor reminded me. I'm probably on ignore too. Meh, GTWF > GTHF, everyone knows that.

[feynman]

Likely the way it was coded in the first place..... And changing that bit of code affected otehr things. So they did it when they felt it was time to do the whole shabang....

Still not the end of the world..... Yet another change in a constantl;y changing game, sometimes you win IE Sorcs getting X2 to bonus SP items, and sometimes you lose.... Now what would you say if they took those SP from you? Personally, I think it's a crime they gave the Sorcs all those SP and left he other casting classes in the dust

They never intended the Minos to provide the toughness feat, and it doesn't really matter how long they waited to fix it. Iwould consider yourself lucky to have benefited this long from it as with myself and all the others. The true weakness of the Sorc class has always been and should remain their lack of HP, they're extremely powerful except for that. They've given you a means to increase your HP, but it will cost you a bit.... There is a way out....

And since the out cry against this change is only a very few people of the very many that are being affected, it's not likely going to change the position of the Devs.

Of course it's not going to change the position of the devs; you've got a dozen cheerleaders here that will attack anyone who disagrees with the devs, and others who feel that sorcs are overpowered and will agree with anything that makes their meatshields more important. I won't argue the overpowered point, but nobody has even acknowledged my question, much less answered it:

Why would the "fix" not simply subtract the enhancement HP when the helm is removed?

[Eelpout]

Of course it's not going to change the position of the devs; you've got a dozen cheerleaders here that will attack anyone who disagrees with the devs

Rah Rah Ree, Kick him in the knee,
Rah Rah Ras, Kick him in the other knee

[Junts]

Not the problem, but thanks.



Optimized for what? Obviously the change doesn't affect you so much, so you feel justified in belittling me. Pride goeth.



Again, the whole point is that it is a loss of a feat in a feat-poor class; what, you don't think I had plans for that feat? Other things that would have been nice? I probably would have taken skill focus: tumble, right? I should be thanking the devs for saving me from wasting a feat. /sarcasm off

I'm not saying that this character is useless, but it will quickly become a shroud farmer while I roll up the new flavor of the month. Sorry to embarrass myself because I'm sick of my characters becoming obsolete as soon as they cap, but that's what happens when the rules change in the middle of the game.

its a sorceror; take max, empower. heighten, extend, toughness, max your cha and start with at least 14 con, and get concentration and umd - you even have 1-2 feats left over (depending on whether you're human) at the present level-cap if you want spell pens or mental toughnesses - voila, you do sorceror things. Unless you were playing some kind of uber-enlarging, spell-focused enchanty build, I can't see how you're having feat problems (or if you think two mts and two spell pens is necessary).

Being alarmist about how this affects a sorc of all classes is just silly.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Oh noes! I didn't build your cookie cutter sorc! I must be punished!

Honestly, are you really comfortable with every character being the same? Go play WpW.

Cookie cutter? Did you read what I said at all? I gave multiple options that could have changed the HP shortage you seem to feel. I also pointed out that a few points in HP or SP either way don't matter. I'm the last person that would suggest every char needs to be the same. I've only suggested that you built in your own shortfalls to that char and that it should still be playable so why are you whining?

I'm not saying that this character is useless, but it will quickly become a shroud farmer while I roll up the new flavor of the month. Sorry to embarrass myself because I'm sick of my characters becoming obsolete as soon as they cap, but that's what happens when the rules change in the middle of the game.

You only need to do that if you want to. Your Sorc, even with the limits you have listed, has enough HP to be survivable on more SP than a Wiz. If he sucks, it isn't Turbine's fault, its the guy at the keyboard.

[Tanka]

Of course it's not going to change the position of the devs; you've got a dozen cheerleaders here that will attack anyone who disagrees with the devs, and others who feel that sorcs are overpowered and will agree with anything that makes their meatshields more important. I won't argue the overpowered point, but nobody has even acknowledged my question, much less answered it:

Why would the "fix" not simply subtract the enhancement HP when the helm is removed?

If you hadn't noticed, a lot of us are very vocal about the game -- both the good and the bad. We tell the Devs when we disagree and some of us even make suggestions on how to make it better.

In fact, most of the prominent posters opt to disagree politely with the Devs more often than not.

[bobbryan2]

Of course it's not going to change the position of the devs; you've got a dozen cheerleaders here that will attack anyone who disagrees with the devs, and others who feel that sorcs are overpowered and will agree with anything that makes their meatshields more important. I won't argue the overpowered point, but nobody has even acknowledged my question, much less answered it:

Why would the "fix" not simply subtract the enhancement HP when the helm is removed?

Did you hear that? I'm a cheerleader!

[Hendrik]

Of course it's not going to change the position of the devs; you've got a dozen cheerleaders here that will attack anyone who disagrees with the devs, and others who feel that sorcs are overpowered and will agree with anything that makes their meatshields more important. I won't argue the overpowered point, but nobody has even acknowledged my question, much less answered it:

Why would the "fix" not simply subtract the enhancement HP when the helm is removed?

Because you would be left with Enhancements that you do not qualify for?

[Frodo_Lives]

This change was coming, we all knew it.

A handfull of hps does not make a character either uber or obsolete.

Almost any change in the form of new spells, feats, enhancemensts, items or simply changes to any of the above effects the details of a character. It doesn't always (or even often) mean you need to re roll.

Items do not act as replacements for feats, you should never be allowed to use an item as a pre requisite for anything.

For all of the above reasons and many more feynman, you sound like a whiney child whose favorite rattle just broke.

It's not the end of the world, you were taking advantage of a loophole that we all knew would be fixed and now that it is you're ****ed, I understand. It still doesn't make you anywhere close to being right.

[feynman]

Did IQs suddenly drop while I was away?

Reading comprehension has suffered, anyway.

Once more for the cheap seats:

Why would the "fix" not simply subtract the enhancement HP when the helm is removed?

[Kistilan]

Did IQs suddenly drop while I was away?

Reading comprehension has suffered, anyway.

Once more for the cheap seats:

Why would the "fix" not simply subtract the enhancement HP when the helm is removed?

Because the enhancements are linked directly to the feat being "applied" to the character.

I recommend visiting Fred for further review to swop out Toughness for Bullheaded on a Toughness character and see just exactly what happens. And don't be wearing your Minos helm.

[Jacoby]

While it's still a nerf, I do appreciate the communication.

[feynman]

Because the enhancements are linked directly to the feat being "applied" to the character.

But that's not how it's working now; the change to not count the feat for enhancements can't be any harder than just making the enhancements contingent on continuing to wear the helm.

[vyvy3369]

Did IQs suddenly drop while I was away?

Reading comprehension has suffered, anyway.

Once more for the cheap seats:

Why would the "fix" not simply subtract the enhancement HP when the helm is removed?

This quote from 08-01-2008 might help answer your question:

The Toughness granted by Minos Legens, as currently implemented, allows access to the Toughness enhancements. These enhancements remain even if the helm is later removed. As I see it, this is a somewhat gray area, and there are two parts that could use some clarification about whether or not they're bugs:

• Should the Toughness granted by the helmet open up enhancement lines?
• If the answer to #1 is Yes, should the enhancement lines remain if the helmet is removed?

1: That's a bug. Prereqs should generally only count things that are fairly permanent.
2: Much of the motivation for #1 is not needing to deal with answering this kind of question.

[Kistilan]

But that's not how it's working now; the change to not count the feat for enhancements can't be any harder than just making the enhancements contingent on continuing to wear the helm.

Well, if this is the case, everyone should be able to get spring attack if they have dodge and wear a mobility robe... but what, does that feat go inactive when you take your mobility item off? That's going way out to left field of how things work (breaking mechanics).

[feynman]

Well, if this is the case, everyone should be able to get spring attack if they have dodge and wear a mobility robe... but what, does that feat go inactive when you take your mobility item off? That's going way out to left field of how things work (breaking mechanics).

But you can't argue mechanics because the system does not account for action points! At this point, everything is being made up as they go along; my complaint is that they are losing consistency. I want to know what to expect by setting up my character in a certain way, without having to worry that the rules will change in the middle of the process.

[Kistilan]

But you can't argue mechanics because the system does not account for action points! At this point, everything is being made up as they go along; my complaint is that they are losing consistency. I want to know what to expect by setting up my character in a certain way, without having to worry that the rules will change in the middle of the process.

We had a thread for that....

It's the one called "It's about time to Consider a Full Character Respec, Turbine."

Meanwhile, the helm is not working as they intended (allowing toughness enhancement access).

It's basically like a free feat for those who were wearing it, and that was not the intent to allow access to an enhancement line via a free feat.

[Desteria]

85 SP = 3 PKs

And highten Insted of MT woudl mena the first PK landed.... with no need to cast the other 2, savign you 40sp per PKed mob + all teh damage that mob did while you wait for PK to cycle that the cleric spent SP healing.