Change the minimum level on the Sorjek Quests

[maddmatt70]

I am leveling up a new cleric, Jacklalalala, who is currently 13th level. I do not enjoy the Sorjek grind of runes at end game so I thought why not get some xp and do a little Sorjek grind in those quests on the way to 16. What I found is you can not enter the reaver refuge if you are lower then 13th level. This is very annoying because I tried to get in as an 11th level character and couldn't. Now at level 13 I can get in, but filling a group of all level 13s is difficult and level 16s results in 30% less xp and less of a challenge - I would just assume grabbing people with 13th or less level characters. I actually had a group filled yesterday, but the level 12s couldn't get in. The Vale quests are level 12 not level 13 and with teleport it is easy to circumvent the level restriction and get lower level characters in so why is the Reaver Refuge so draconian.

I don't disagree that there should be some low level restriction - so people can't bring their level 1s into end game quests for loot purposes, but I think 10 levels less then the quest's rating is a better number then 4 levels less. This game is about having fun so why arbitrarily restrict someone from doing a quest. It makes no sense to me.

[VirieSquichie]

I am leveling up a new cleric, Jacklalalala, who is currently 13th level. I do not enjoy the Sorjek grind of runes at end game so I thought why not get some xp and do a little Sorjek grind in those quests on the way to 16. What I found is you can not enter the reaver refuge if you are lower then 13th level. This is very annoying because I tried to get in as an 11th level character and couldn't. Now at level 13 I can get in, but filling a group of all level 13s is difficult and level 16s results in 30% less xp and less of a challenge - I would just assume grabbing people with 13th or less level characters. I actually had a group filled yesterday, but the level 12s couldn't get in. The Vale quests are level 12 not level 13 and with teleport it is easy to circumvent the level restriction and get lower level characters in so why is the Reaver Refuge so draconian.

I don't disagree that there should be some low level restriction - so people can't bring their level 1s into end game quests for loot purposes, but I think 10 levels less then the quest's rating is a better number then 4 levels less. This game is about having fun so why arbitrarily restrict someone from doing a quest. It makes no sense to me.

I agree that arbitrary level restrictions are silly and make no role-play sense, but some sort of limits do have to be placed. Otherwise, you would have a bunch of level 1's running around with bound end-game-raid loot and they'd be far too powerful when they could actually equip it - it would further push the balance askew, and it's pretty unbalanced already.

I think a good-teamwork group of well-equipped level 10's could rock the Vale, and I've seen some skilled players with 10th-12th level characters do just fine in the Subterrane...holding up their end of a group in fact, and outperforming a couple real n00bs running 16th level characters. When my 2nd sorc leveled and could enter the Refuge, he found he could solo some of the rares already...silly he couldn't enter until then. I have another character that would love to try his luck in such areas a few levels lower than he'll be able to due to that cap.

The level caps on certain areas and certain loot helps to limit the amount that the highly twinked characters can skew the difficulties of dungeons, so lesser-equipped characters won't feel useless in mixed (PUG) groups. Since the game couldn't survive with only the guilded players, the caps are a necessary evil.

I'd love to see the item level restrictions removed, but attempting to equip something much higher level than you should has a chance of stunning or dominating the character for a while if some roll or other (UMD?) is failed - and when the stun/dominate effect comes off, you still don't have that item equipped so you can try again or just give it up. It would simulate the more powerful items' being sentient or semi-sentient, or having magical entities bound into them, or whatever storyline you want to use for why those items have such potent powers. They won't tolerate a wuss wielding/wearing their item, or if they're evil they'll try to manipulate the character rather than the character manipulating them.

[maddmatt70]

I feel from a melee perspective that level 10 compared to level 16 isn't that huge of a difference. Level 10 you can use all the power five weapons (nice puncturing weapons as well) and alot of folks have those (some people have level 8s but that is rarer). It is only on red names where there is more of a difference and for that casters and clerics can do the dirty work. Casters and clerics can get away with alot admittedly consumables help a great deal and the like, but a resourceful player can play an awesome cleric or caster at mid levels. These casters or clerics are far better then a huge % of the gaming populations capability to play level 16 caster or clerics.

[The_Phenx]

/not signed

This sorta setup has been done in the past and makes sense... if an npc is hiring for a "quest" then its his right to choose to hire people of a certain expertise for the job.

So just wait till your 13 or 14th level...

[maddmatt70]

/not signed

This sorta setup has been done in the past and makes sense... if an npc is hiring for a "quest" then its his right to choose to hire people of a certain expertise for the job.

If that were the case and I were the knowledgeable NPC in question I would choose to hire Ellistrian, Sorcerer, at level 10 over 85% of the level 16 sorcerers and wizards playing ddo for a quest. Alot of the level 16 sorcerors and wizards wouldn't be getting hired as well because they have poor reputations with the NPCs after a myriad of failures. The level thing is wholly arbitrary...

[Tenkari_Rozahas]

I disagree for one reason.


If everyone grinds these quests at lower levels, they will ***** and moan that theres nothing elses to do since they skipped like every other quest between whenever they started and level 16....

[Amabel]

/signed

There is no good reason to have any level restrictions on quest areas in the game.

Every quest tells you the level of the quest when you zone in, so it's not like people will be heading to the Refuge straight of Korthos and wondering what's gone wrong.

Having to get lvl 10 characters in group so you can do Gianthold is equally dumb.

[bobbryan2]

I disagree for one reason.


If everyone grinds these quests at lower levels, they will ***** and moan that theres nothing elses to do since they skipped like every other quest between whenever they started and level 16....

If that's the only reason you have to disagree...

[Tenkari_Rozahas]

If that's the only reason you have to disagree...

nah, just the main reason, the other is P&P related, but it wouldnt fly to well here the way things are changed so much.

I personally wouldn't allow players into quests that are like 6+ levels over them, in a P&P game, i would only throw such encounters at them if they really ****ed me off and I wanted to put 'em in their places, not so that they could tag along with higher level people and get free XP.

[Tenkari_Rozahas]

You can't get free xp from players 6 levels higher than you....

true, but you can if they are only 3... if the minimum level right now is 13, and he wants to run a level 11 through there, he'd just have to group with 13's/14's in a what, level 16 quest?


and somehow i ninja'd the guy i quoted >>

[bobbryan2]

nah, just the main reason, the other is P&P related, but it wouldnt fly to well here the way things are changed so much.

I personally wouldn't allow players into quests that are like 6+ levels over them, in a P&P game, i would only throw such encounters at them if they really ****ed me off and I wanted to put 'em in their places, not so that they could tag along with higher level people and get free XP.

You can't get free xp from players 6 levels higher than you....

[maddmatt70]

true, but you can if they are only 3... if the minimum level right now is 13, and he wants to run a level 11 through there, he'd just have to group with 13's/14's in a what, level 16 quest?


and somehow i ninja'd the guy i quoted >>

Level 12 characters can't physical get into the Reavers refuge so there is no way anyone less then level 13 can do one of those quests..

[Tenkari_Rozahas]

Level 12 characters can't physical get into the Reavers refuge so there is no way anyone less then level 13 can do one of those quests..

I know, But according to your OP you suggesting getting rid of said requirements, which would mean that what i said could happen if it is allowed, then everyone will be complaining that theres nothing to do since everyones going to be grinding runes and stuff and wont want to run anything else between level 11 and soon to be 20.

[Amabel]

nah, just the main reason, the other is P&P related, but it wouldnt fly to well here the way things are changed so much.

I personally wouldn't allow players into quests that are like 6+ levels over them, in a P&P game, i would only throw such encounters at them if they really ****ed me off and I wanted to put 'em in their places, not so that they could tag along with higher level people and get free XP.

That's fair enough in PnP, but DDO is a different kettle of fish.

There are rules in place that very effectively stop power leveling. And let's be honest, a group of very well equipped players who know their stuff can go through content that's a much higher level than them. Why shouldn't they be allowed to challenge themselves on that content?

[Onesikpup]

Having to get lvl 10 characters in group so you can do Gianthold is equally dumb.

I find that lvl 10 is the perfect time to hit GH. Those 11 quests are what gets me from lvl 10 to 13/14 at which point the vale becomes the place to further my XP whoring.


But, if someone really wants to go do Reavers Refuge at less than 13.....I dont see the big deal of changing the level restriction down to 10 or so (same with vale), although I would most likely not take them into my group without knowing who they are.

Overpowered loot realy isnt an issue, since raid loot does have a ML rating. I find that even after running TR that i have to wait a level or 2 to use the loot i get from the end reward.

[Amabel]

I find that lvl 10 is the perfect time to hit GH. Those 11 quests are what gets me from lvl 10 to 13/14 at which point the vale becomes the place to further my XP whoring.


But, if someone really wants to go do Reavers Refuge at less than 13.....I dont see the big deal of changing the level restriction down to 10 or so (same with vale), although I would most likely not take them into my group without knowing who they are.

Overpowered loot realy isnt an issue, since raid loot does have a ML rating. I find that even after running TR that i have to wait a level or 2 to use the loot i get from the end reward.

That's fine. Level 10 is a nice time to hit Gianthold. All I'm asking, is that if we want to go in there earlier - let us?

Is there any good reason to lock players out of content until a certain level?

I've run Shroud with a level 2 rogue in the group. It was funny. He was a bit squishy, but it was fun. Now obviously no level 3-5 group is going to be able to flag for the Shroud and run it, but why lock people out from trying?

[Tenkari_Rozahas]

That's fair enough in PnP, but DDO is a different kettle of fish.

There are rules in place that very effectively stop power leveling. And let's be honest, a group of very well equipped players who know their stuff can go through content that's a much higher level than them. Why shouldn't they be allowed to challenge themselves on that content?

thats why i said the second reason doesnt fly well with DDO >>

[Onesikpup]

The only reason I assume they lock out player levels is to keep plat farming to a minimum...or at least make you work at it. A lvl 2 rogue in shroud is amusing, and im sure contributed little to the group other than amusement, but he took away precious large ingredients on his exit. And we all know that in most cases that any quest can be run by fewer players than the max 6 or 12 (for raids). Double boxing happens all the time, im not guilty of that, but i have supported it.

Im fine with lowering the lvl minimum to enter areas, but not fine with abolishing them altogether.

[bobbryan2]

The only reason I assume they lock out player levels is to keep plat farming to a minimum...or at least make you work at it. A lvl 2 rogue in shroud is amusing, and im sure contributed little to the group other than amusement, but he took away precious large ingredients on his exit. And we all know that in most cases that any quest can be run by fewer players than the max 6 or 12 (for raids). Double boxing happens all the time, im not guilty of that, but i have supported it.

Im fine with lowering the lvl minimum to enter areas, but not fine with abolishing them altogether.

All the goodies in the Sor'jek quests are bound.

Next theory!

[maddmatt70]

I find that lvl 10 is the perfect time to hit GH. Those 11 quests are what gets me from lvl 10 to 13/14 at which point the vale becomes the place to further my XP whoring.

The thing about the gianthold is from a loot perspective it really sucks now other then the reaver raid. I enjoy the xp like everybody else, but I would rather do the orchard quests - for the rare items, vale quests to get shroud ready for the best loot in the game, or SOS quests to at least get a shot at a good set of armor and the +2 tomes on normal to boot.

Every time I level up a new character I find the gh is more possible at lower and lower levels. These days I don't mind starting gh with level 8-11 characters comprising the groups. Even if you don't have power 5s available you can still dps in madstone, pop, etc and get the job done especially on normal.