Max Dex Bonus...

[esoitl]

Featherfall anyone :P

Nothing to see here.... move along now.

[Araliss]

Well, don't lose sight of the fact that under the hood, this is supposed to follow P&P D&D as closely as possible. This is an evolution of an armor system in place for what, over 30 years now? It works.. Don't like it? go play WOW. Or go to Delera's graveyard and argue the semantics of it with Gary.. it would be about as useful as attempting to apply RW physics too strictly to a fantasy RPG.

[Kromize]

True, but without having some restrictions we'd all be invincible. What would be the fun in that.

Indeed. But my point was that a fighter with say, 32 dex should be able to move more in a heavy plate than a fighter with 16. I'm not trying to say take away max dex bonus as is. In fact, I beleive to really balance it in this game would really require a revamp of the armor system, which most likely isn't happening. lol

It works..

Oh? TWF ranger that can self buff to 85 ac - Fighter with tower shield who can barely get over 60...

Are you sure that "It works"?

[flash145]

Well, don't lose sight of the fact that under the hood, this is supposed to follow P&P D&D as closely as possible. This is an evolution of an armor system in place for what, over 30 years now? It works.. Don't like it? go play WOW. Or go to Delera's graveyard and argue the semantics of it with Gary.. it would be about as useful as attempting to apply RW physics too strictly to a fantasy RPG.

You're so right. OK lets ask Turbine to make ALL armor +10 Mith full plate w/ no dex restrictions or wt penalties oh and yea 100pts of epic DR while we are at it. Oh and add immunity to every form of elemental dmg too just for a hoot !!!

Indeed. But my point was that a fighter with say, 32 dex should be able to move more in a heavy plate than a fighter with 16. I'm not trying to say take away max dex bonus as is. In fact, I beleive to really balance it in this game would really require a revamp of the armor system, which most likely isn't happening. lol

Whether you want to use some rationality or go by pure fantasy, if you just give perfection to anything you have or wear or use whats the point in playing? The real world isnt perfect, the fanatsy game shouldnt have perfect gear or why bother playing. If there is no challenge, you will just get bored.

Oh? TWF ranger that can self buff to 85 ac - Fighter with tower shield who can barely get over 60...

Are you sure that "It works"?

The difference is one is able to dodge out of the way much easier NOT wearing armor then one wearing a full suit of plate. You SHOULDNT have the same mobility/dexterity for armor vs robe. Again if you did, whats the point? You are asking for everything to be w/o limitations. I for one want limitations so I can strive to over come those limitations to succeed and excel.

And to all you peeps who keep making the SAME ASSININE comment about PnP vs DDO. I played pnp when it start back in the 70's, probably long before some of you were even born, and even then the books and rules WERE A BASE LINE for play. Not the UNBREAKABLE COMMANDANTS of GOD you all seem to take them for.

DnD was about creating your own worlds of play, and rules as well, to create the world and style of play where all your friends would enjoy themselves. People who keep quoting ""RULES"" need to go back and reread your players handbook. Even my Edition 1 says these rules are ony a guildline for playing. So if DDO wants to alter, change or throw out a rule or presept, its well with in its right AND the "HEART" of the game GARY created 30 yrs ago.

[Kromize]

Whether you want to use some rationality or go by pure fantasy, if you just give perfection to anything you have or wear or use whats the point in playing? The real world isnt perfect, the fanatsy game shouldnt have perfect gear or why bother playing. If there is no challenge, you will just get bored.
Did u actually read what I posted?


The difference is one is able to dodge out of the way much easier NOT wearing armor then one wearing a full suit of plate. You SHOULDNT have the same mobility/dexterity for armor vs robe. Again if you did, whats the point? You are asking for everything to be w/o limitations. I for one want limitations so I can strive to over come those limitations to succeed and excel.
Okay. Where is the damage reduction on my heavy plate and tower shield? I don't want to have to "actively block" the whole time just to get something. That would assume that I don't know how to use my shield, and that the armor is so poorly made that mobs can cut right through it. Whats the point to that?


DnD was about creating your own worlds of play, and rules as well, to create the world and style of play where all your friends would enjoy themselves. People who keep quoting ""RULES"" need to go back and reread your players handbook. Even my Edition 1 says these rules are ony a guildline for playing. So if DDO wants to alter, change or throw out a rule or presept, its well with in its right AND the "HEART" of the game GARY created 30 yrs ago.
Indeed.

Responses in orange.

And again, I'm not suggesting that they take away dex bonus from the game, if you would read and comprehend you would know that.

ps - We did have complete immunity to elements a long time ago actually. (:

[GlassCannon]

It doesn't just weigh you down it restricts you movement. You cannot bend enough to evade the blow.

Unless your STR is Godlike and it is as Cloth to you...

...as with a Barbarian fully raged with a STR of 40-50+


I've seen some NAVY SEALS move around with more alacrity than a stage performing dancer while wearing some pretty heavy gear.

[Taluron]

You're so right. OK lets ask Turbine to make ALL armor +10 Mith full plate w/ no dex restrictions or wt penalties oh and yea 100pts of epic DR while we are at it. Oh and add immunity to every form of elemental dmg too just for a hoot !!!

Red-name boss armor FTW!!

[Mindspat]

Well in reality if your wearing heavy plate it should be able to add your STR to your AC, as that is what will deterimine if you can move.

Encumberence takes part in this.

[GlassCannon]

Red-name boss armor FTW!!

That or the armor the Celestials get in RWD.... that stuff is AWESOME.

[Monkeytoe]

Well, don't lose sight of the fact that under the hood, this is supposed to follow P&P D&D as closely as possible. This is an evolution of an armor system in place for what, over 30 years now? It works.. Don't like it? go play WOW. Or go to Delera's graveyard and argue the semantics of it with Gary.. it would be about as useful as attempting to apply RW physics too strictly to a fantasy RPG.

*This* armor system has not been in place for 30 years. This AC was introduced with 3rd edition rules in er... 2000 I think.

The original AC system went from 10 to -10, with -10 being the best possible AC and basically capping ac at -10.
THAT is the AC system that was in place for 30 years. THIS is some newfangled sliding-cap ****

[Treerat]

Tell you what, go to your local RenFest and pay the guy the dollars to put on a suit of full plate armor. Next try moving and jumping around. Last, add tower shield and longsword. NOW start moving and swing as if in combat . . . . .

If you cant understand how full plate armor restricts mobility by that point, then there is no hope in explaining it too you.

PS. The stuff you wear at a RenFest is 1/2 the weight of real armor anyway. In medieval times, a knight's armor would consist of a layer of hvy cloathing, then a body suit of chain links, then a layer of hvy padding or leather jerkin w/ the last layer being the plate armor. Try putting on about 7 layers of clothing and see how well u would bend, move your arms and legs.

Did it several times. Stifling due to lack of air flow when the visor was down, and tiring to move about in (due to not having trained for 10+ years), but no more restrictive than a heavy coat a little too large or small. Those wouldn't be a problem for a knight or trained soldier; ten years or more of physical conditioning and training combined with armorers making each set of full plate to one specific users specifications counters everything but the lack of air flow. And that is true full plate; chain mail was even less restrictive (but tiring since most of the weight is on the shoulders)

Then there is the fact that no serious armored (or modern unarmored) fighter would use more than the bare minimum of movement to avoid a blow; that bending at the waist you're thinking of is the creation of movies. Any large movement risks upsetting the fighters balance, wastes energy, and is harder to alter if the opponents attack is a feint. Add in that a knight would also be trained to parry or block/ deflect (depending on if they use a shield or not) incoming attacks, and they don't need a lot of "mobility" to avoid an attack - just enough to make the attack glance off their armor or just miss their body.

If anything the heavier armor should have some sort of fatigue penalty for prolonged use, but whoever thought up a "max dex bonus" was an obvious idiot who didn't do their research.

[Demoyn]

But seriously, if you train with heavy plate and whatnot, your going to be able to move it it, especially when it's magially enhanced, and mithral, etc... you guys are trying to make it seem like dnd isn't a fantasy world and that's its actually the past or something...

What, exactly, do you think the fighter and dwarven armor enhancements simulate?

[talyor]

Hmm. I thought about it, and it doesn't really make sense. I mean, yeah, armor weighs you down, makes you move slower, so you can't evade as good. But wouldn't it make more sense to give a penalty instead? Cmon, a guy with 10 dex and heavy plate isn't gonna be near as evasive as a guy with 30 dex and heavy plate... It just makes more sense that you loose some of your dex bonus to ac for wearing heavier plate, not gain a limited amount.

But then again I guess this goes into the category of "Armor system in DnD blows".

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=169064

Glass half full or half empty. losing some or gain limited. Whats the difference?