Required feats???

[Samadhi]

I could not disagree more with not carrying Greater Hero for the simple fact that GH adds +4 to your use magic device skill. GH is the single spell that I cast the most often (more often than haste, and I'm casting it on myself).

It is also one of the single easiest spells to carry on a scroll.

Scroll of GH - 11 minutes of GH
Scroll of Disintegrate/FTS/anything offensive - about worthless

Seems like a pretty simple decision to me.

[Fennario]

Maximize
Empower
Heighten
Extend
Spell Pen
Greater Spell Pen

If human add in whatever: SF:UMD, FoP, SF:X, Toughness, etc.

[Dktr]

It is also one of the single easiest spells to carry on a scroll.

Scroll of GH - 11 minutes of GH
Scroll of Disintegrate/FTS/anything offensive - about worthless

Seems like a pretty simple decision to me.

When I kept Greater Hero on a scroll, my sorcerer was more expensive to play than my cleric. Acid Fog and Disintegrate are purely situational spells. My sorc does carry disintegrate, but he only needs to use it on red/purple names, and for red/purple polar ray works better. In the new content, everything saves against disintegrate.

My Sorc has for feats: Maximize, Extend, Spell Pen, Greater Spell Pen, Heighten, Skill focus: Use Magic Device.

For Spells My sorc carries:

Level 1:
Magic Missile, Jump, Tumble, Hypnotize

Level 2:

Resist Energy, Scorching Ray, Knock, Web

Level 3
Suggestion, Haste, Displacement, Protection from Energy

Level 4:
Firewall, Ennervate, Dimension Door, Solid Fog

Level 5
Cone of Cold, Teleport, Dismissal, Cloudkill

Level 6
Greater Hero, Disintegrate, Flesh to Stone

Level 7
Finger of Death, Discoball

Level 8
Polar Ray

I have never been in a situation where I do not have the right spell for the right occasion. I may not have the exact spell, but I can mimic the effect with the other spells on my list. I can solo just about everything. If you miss Acid fog, try using solid fog + cloudkill. If you miss mass suggestion, try suggestion and cast it twice. If you miss pk, use ennervate as your 1,2 with fod. My umd =40. My sorc is my favorite toon to play.

[Tyrande]

When I kept Greater Hero on a scroll, my sorcerer was more expensive to play than my cleric. Acid Fog and Disintegrate are purely situational spells. My sorc does carry disintegrate, but he only needs to use it on red/purple names, and for red/purple polar ray works better. In the new content, everything saves against disintegrate.

My Sorc has for feats: Maximize, Extend, Spell Pen, Greater Spell Pen, Heighten, Skill focus: Use Magic Device.

For Spells My sorc carries:

Level 1:
Magic Missile, Jump, Tumble, Hypnotize

Level 2:

Resist Energy, Scorching Ray, Knock, Web

Level 3
Suggestion, Haste, Displacement, Protection from Energy

Level 4:
Firewall, Ennervate, Dimension Door, Solid Fog

Level 5
Cone of Cold, Teleport, Dismissal, Cloudkill

Level 6
Greater Hero, Disintegrate, Flesh to Stone

Level 7
Finger of Death, Discoball

Level 8
Polar Ray

I have never been in a situation where I do not have the right spell for the right occasion. I may not have the exact spell, but I can mimic the effect with the other spells on my list. I can solo just about everything. If you miss Acid fog, try using solid fog + cloudkill. If you miss mass suggestion, try suggestion and cast it twice. If you miss pk, use ennervate as your 1,2 with fod. My umd =40. My sorc is my favorite toon to play.

I sort of remember a quest in Necropolis & Prey of the Hunter that requires the spell: "Fireball".

[juniorpfactors]

I sort of remember a quest in Necropolis & Prey of the Hunter that requires the spell: "Fireball".

there is no quest that requires fireball... sorry

jrp

[Oreg]

When I kept Greater Hero on a scroll, my sorcerer was more expensive to play than my cleric. .

I don't find that to be the case. I use maybe 10 scrolls a month. Most people have girds and if not many groups have a bard or wiz with it.

Acid Fog
Disintegrate
FtS

are my level 6s.

[redoubt]

bad gimped toons , every toon at level 16 should have their own planar gird if not 2, and should have crafted gs fear immunity poison item, but yes I carry GH, if your really in a frenzy of GH go farm 3 or 4 planar girds and buff those beggars off those

SF: Enchantment, GSF: Enchantment, SF: Illusion DUMP these imho, Empower (must) extend, Necromancy if your human fit in UMD to hit 39-40 for Heal scrolls and Greater Restorations

jrp

You say necromancy because of Finger of Death? If yes, I have illusion because I have PK and not FoD. With the cap increase and more level 7 spell slots I will get FOD, drop PK and swap illusion for necromancy.

[Dktr]

I don't find that to be the case. I use maybe 10 scrolls a month. Most people have girds and if not many groups have a bard or wiz with it.

Acid Fog
Disintegrate
FtS

are my level 6s.

The Greater Hero is for me... I keep it permacast on me at all times... +4 to umd while questing +4 to haggle while shopping... hands down- the single spell I cast the most often...

[tinyelvis]

As a sorcerer, it is just plain foolish to take a spell that can just as effectively be cast from a scroll. GH is certainly one of these spells. Before any important battle, (i.e. heading to battle Sorjek) it is of course a very good idea to make sure the whole party has GH or when the rogue is tasked to find the difficult traps. However, it is an unnecessary party luxury 90% of the time. Its my experience that folks whinnying for GH when it normally should not be needed are usually poorly created melee'rs. Point out to them that you can scroll cast on them before the big battle with the end boss but not continuously. There are too many good 6th level spells to waste a spot on this spell. If you do, you will only marginalize your capability and be less effective to a party in the long run.

Empower is nice to have, but it really takes a back seat to many feats. Your intuition is correct here. Using just maximize is the most efficient way to spend your mana. Furthermore, if you know that you will use all of your mana in a given battle, you will in fact do more total damage with maximize alone than with maximize and empower. Perform some basic math and prove this to yourself if need be. Don't trade any feats for empower.

Extend is another great luxury feat. However, as was stated by someone earlier you are better off taking offensive feats as you have. Enlarge, for example is far better than extend. It enables you to deal with tough encounters outside the party danger range (especially if you use non aggro spells). If terribly necessary you can always rebuff on those rare occasions where 15 minutes is not long enough.

Finally, I just want to point out that unless you run a lot of easy areas (like the vale or vale quests on normal) spell penetration and spell DC are important considerations (especially for the new content and subter). I would guess that Mod 9 will continue the trend of high spell resistance and saves for trash monsters. I would suggest 25 minimum for SP.

Finally, PK is imo a horrible spell. Monsters get SR and two saves. A very inefficient way to deal with mobs. You can finger 95% of the trash mobs in every area currently. This spell should be used instead of PK. A real pro sorcerer kill quickly and consistently with as little mana as possible. IMO that's the sorcerers job.

[Dktr]

I sort of remember a quest in Necropolis & Prey of the Hunter that requires the spell: "Fireball".

there is this other spell called firewall....

oh, and I think the quest in Necropolis you're thinking of is Inferno of the Damned.. just bring a wand of fireballs in there with you for the torches (works fine)... When I do that quest I usually bring scrolls of cone of cold as well; so, I don't have to waste my mana on those stupid torches...

[Dktr]

As a sorcerer, it is just plain foolish to take a spell that can just as effectively be cast from a scroll. GH is certainly one of these spells. Before any important battle, (i.e. heading to battle Sorjek) it is of course a very good idea to make sure the whole party has GH or when the rogue is tasked to find the difficult traps. However, it is an unnecessary party luxury 90% of the time. Its my experience that folks whinnying for GH when it normally should not be needed are usually poorly created melee'rs. Point out to them that you can scroll cast on them before the big battle with the end boss but not continuously. There are too many good 6th level spells to waste a spot on this spell. If you do, you will only marginalize your capability and be less effective to a party in the long run.

.

You're using Acid fog in place of greater hero.... How is that really any better than cloudkill + solid fog? Just throw a firewall in there if mobs are not going down fast enough....

My question for you: Why scroll at all if you don't have to? I don't carry acid fog and even better I don't carry scrolls of it... and I don't miss it...

why would you replace a spell (greater hero) that you will be casting all the time for a spell that you will only cast once in a while or could get the same effect using other spells.... For a umd sorc - greater hero is required for the build..... If you're not a umd sorc, and you're relying on the cleric to keep you standing then the least you could do is cast a 30 min greater hero on the cleric to make all those heal scrolls he's using on you just a bit cheaper... The only build I could see not needing greater hero would be a soloing warforged sorcerer that could care less about the people he pugs with (even for the soloist gh gives immunity to fear and +4 to saves- very, very handy for bloodstone runs)... Definitely a spell to keep permacasted on yourself...

oh and one more thing.. the only time I have ever missed having acid fog loaded was one occasion when a wizard put acid fog on top of a portal in the shroud. One of the barbarians complained that he couldn't see and starting yelling at the wizard and demanded that no acid fogs be placed on the portals.... On that one occasion I did want to coat the entire quest in a sea of acid fog just to make that barbarian swim through it....

[tinyelvis]

The great thing about this game is that you are welcome to waste spell points and a spell slot on GH if it makes you comfortable. The rest of us will just scroll it and/or planar girdle it.

I suggest:

Flesh to Stone
Disintegrate
Reconstruct

Other folks will take acid fog, chain lightning, Mass suggestion, Symbols and/or perhaps others. These are all better choices than wasting the spot on GH.

[Dktr]

The great thing about this game is that you are welcome to waste spell points and a spell slot on GH if it makes you comfortable. The rest of us will just scroll it and/or planar girdle it.

I suggest:

Flesh to Stone
Disintegrate
Reconstruct

Other folks will take acid fog, chain lightning, Mass suggestion, Symbols and/or perhaps others. These are all better choices than wasting the spot on GH.

I see that you carry reconstruct.... I imagine you carry reconstruct for self-healing- very good idea for a warforged caster. That is precisely why a human/drow/elf/dwarf/halfling sorcerer should carry greater hero- FOR THE SELF HEALING (hello!! umd!!)...

As to greater hero not being a good choice to keep loaded please keep in mind that:

Sorcerers are in a unique position that they have more mana than any other class. When a sorcerer suggests that a wizard pass xxx or a bard pass yyy or a cleric pass zzz, those classes are then wasting mana that could be better spent on other things.. When you make the bard pass greater hero, that bard then has less mana for crowd control and cures... When you demand the wizard pass greater hero, the wizard then has less mana for the other spells that you don't have in your arsenal.... The sorcerer has more than enough mana that he/she can freely pass buffs and not handicap their toon for the rest of the quest..... The wizards/bards/clerics are not in this position...

[redoubt]

You're using Acid fog in place of greater hero.... How is that really any better than cloudkill + solid fog? Just throw a firewall in there if mobs are not going down fast enough....

My question for you: Why scroll at all if you don't have to? I don't carry acid fog and even better I don't carry scrolls of it... and I don't miss it...

why would you replace a spell (greater hero) that you will be casting all the time for a spell that you will only cast once in a while or could get the same effect using other spells.... For a umd sorc - greater hero is required for the build..... If you're not a umd sorc, and you're relying on the cleric to keep you standing then the least you could do is cast a 30 min greater hero on the cleric to make all those heal scrolls he's using on you just a bit cheaper... The only build I could see not needing greater hero would be a soloing warforged sorcerer that could care less about the people he pugs with (even for the soloist gh gives immunity to fear and +4 to saves- very, very handy for bloodstone runs)... Definitely a spell to keep permacasted on yourself...

oh and one more thing.. the only time I have ever missed having acid fog loaded was one occasion when a wizard put acid fog on top of a portal in the shroud. One of the barbarians complained that he couldn't see and starting yelling at the wizard and demanded that no acid fogs be placed on the portals.... On that one occasion I did want to coat the entire quest in a sea of acid fog just to make that barbarian swim through it....

I don't have the spell slots for solid fog either... Many of you do not list holds or charms among your spells. Maybe that is why you seem to have so many open slots.

I used to do the Cloud Kill / Solid fog combo, but when I rearranged everything back at the TOR due to the **** immunities, I ended up dropping solid fog and worked solid fog back in as my fog spell.

Side note: a lot of the current mobs are immune to the CK con damage, so at least acid fod does a few ticks of damage.

Now, back on topic. I'm not saying GH is never needed. I agree with several here who say that they will scroll as needed. It just seems that lately people want it all the time. Kinda like being superbuffed going into part 1 of the shroud. Its not needed.

[Dktr]

What I tried to create when building my sorcerer was a toon that is self-sufficient. My sorcerer is drow; so, I have greater hero loaded because it gives +4 to umd skill allowing me to use heal scrolls. A warforged sorcerer would take reconstruct in that slot again for the self-healing. The important thing to keep in mind is build your toon in way that is fun for you. Sixth level spell slots as well as fourth level spell slots are precious mainly because there are so many useful spells in each slot.

[juniorpfactors]

I don't have the spell slots for solid fog either... Many of you do not list holds or charms among your spells. Maybe that is why you seem to have so many open slots.

I used to do the Cloud Kill / Solid fog combo, but when I rearranged everything back at the TOR due to the **** immunities, I ended up dropping solid fog and worked solid fog back in as my fog spell.

Side note: a lot of the current mobs are immune to the CK con damage, so at least acid fod does a few ticks of damage.

Now, back on topic. I'm not saying GH is never needed. I agree with several here who say that they will scroll as needed. It just seems that lately people want it all the time. Kinda like being superbuffed going into part 1 of the shroud. Its not needed.

correct, but people are irrational, and there are plenty of gimps who expect it

jrp

[tinyelvis]

I see that you carry reconstruct.... I imagine you carry reconstruct for self-healing- very good idea for a warforged caster. That is precisely why a human/drow/elf/dwarf/halfling sorcerer should carry greater hero- FOR THE SELF HEALING (hello!! umd!!)...

I suggest carrying reconstruct as a way to broaden your versatility. You harp on healing yet fail to see the benefit in potentially healing all. One can spell cast this much faster than scroll and heal much much more WF damage.

Concerning GH, you really have no argument mate. No one is arguing against self casting GH rather the stupidity of carrying the unnecessary spell. Perhaps you don't know this, but a Scroll will perform the exact same service. There is no SR or DC to overcome. Further, each cast of GH equates to one or more enemy combatants that you will not quickly neutralize. Again, no point in wasting a precious spell slot on this easily scroll cast spell. Lets not even get into the current trend of monster debuffing the party.

It is common for new sorcerers to spell cast all sorts of wasteful spells and blow their mana unnecessarily. This includes unnecessary over-buffing. On top of that, they then usually hog up any available DV's which could be spent on a better sorcerer who is managing his mana responsively. These are the guys who blow thru their mana then either stand around with their hands in their pockets later mana depleted or resort to pot usage. Which is hilarious since the expense of one pot can buy dozens of GH scrolls. Every time you cast 6 extended GH's you blow about 10% of your initial mana.

GH is not needed to blow thru your typical quest. In a PUG group you should kill 80-90% of the bad guys yourself, while in an expert group, they will not even notice not having it while they help you slaughter mobs. Be smart, learn to scroll cast it when it is needed and save your mana. If your in a PUG and people complain, tell them to just stand behind you while you clear the way and that you will scroll cast them before end boss if needed.

After you gain more experience playing a sorcerer you will see the wisdom in scroll casting certain spells.

[rimble]

I am most content with my wasted spell slot on Greater Heroism. It pleases me to buff my servants, give them a Dancing Sphere, Web, or whatever to work in, and stand back and watch them do the dirty work.

All valid playing styles. People can make different choices. I love that about DDO.

As soon as there is a required Sorcerer spell loadout, augmented with scrolls, I'll probably stop playing my Sorcerer. 'LFM: Sorc: Spell Loadout #4 req'd'. No thanks.

[Dktr]

I suggest carrying reconstruct as a way to broaden your versatility. You harp on healing yet fail to see the benefit in potentially healing all. One can spell cast this much faster than scroll and heal much much more WF damage.

Concerning GH, you really have no argument mate. No one is arguing against self casting GH rather the stupidity of carrying the unnecessary spell. Perhaps you don't know this, but a Scroll will perform the exact same service. There is no SR or DC to overcome. Further, each cast of GH equates to one or more enemy combatants that you will not quickly neutralize. Again, no point in wasting a precious spell slot on this easily scroll cast spell. Lets not even get into the current trend of monster debuffing the party.

It is common for new sorcerers to spell cast all sorts of wasteful spells and blow their mana unnecessarily. This includes unnecessary over-buffing. On top of that, they then usually hog up any available DV's which could be spent on a better sorcerer who is managing his mana responsively. These are the guys who blow thru their mana then either stand around with their hands in their pockets later mana depleted or resort to pot usage. Which is hilarious since the expense of one pot can buy dozens of GH scrolls. Every time you cast 6 extended GH's you blow about 10% of your initial mana.

GH is not needed to blow thru your typical quest. In a PUG group you should kill 80-90% of the bad guys yourself, while in an expert group, they will not even notice not having it while they help you slaughter mobs. Be smart, learn to scroll cast it when it is needed and save your mana. If your in a PUG and people complain, tell them to just stand behind you while you clear the way and that you will scroll cast them before end boss if needed.

After you gain more experience playing a sorcerer you will see the wisdom in scroll casting certain spells.

I've been playing sorcerer for quite a while and wizard and cleric and bard. I have capped two clerics (rest assured, no one understands mana conservation better than I do- my first toon was a cleric with no higher level toon to purchase scrolls and wands for him). I also know the value of how a few simple buffs early on from the sorc can save the cleric a bunch of mana later.

The reason to carry greater hero and not scroll it is very simple... A properly equipped sorcerer should not be scrolling any arcane spell that is cast regularly... As to carrying reconstruct- i'm not warforged and those I group with are not warforged.... I could see the benefit of reconstruct over greater hero for warforged casters and warforged casters only... All other 6th level spells are situational at best.. those that are not situational can be mimicked through other spell choices...

The only scrolls my sorcerer keeps in his inventory are: heal, greater restoration, raise dead, and mass cure moderate wounds. I do keep a stack of reconstruct scrolls in the bank (don't even need to keep them in my inventory- i just don't cast it enough).. on the off chance there may be a warforged in a pug raid... One more thing you will never find in my sorcerer's inventory are mem pots (those all go to my clerics) .... My sorcerer has more mana then he knows what to do with.. I have yet to complete a quest where he hasn't had mana left over... If the cleric unloads dv's , I tell the cleric to give them all to the wizard or bard.. heck even the ranger would need the cleric's dv's before I would get a chance to use them...

I tell you what.. the next group you join whether it be guild, raid, or pug... ask that group which 6th level arcane spell they most want you carrying in your arsenal and which spell will benefit the group the greatest .. then come back on the forums and offer your sage advice on what should be carried.... Greater Hero is by far the single spell that I cast the most often..... If you're not making use of it, then I don't want to be in your pugs.....

[Dktr]

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