My OPINION

[oogly54]

I am a regular forum reader and post somewhat often. I like reading most of the points some make and some of the ignorance of others. What annoys me most about these forums is all the people claiming this or that as fact. You come off looking like a jerk. "You are wrong, no YOU are WRONG." Please, both are stating opinions, which means nobody is wrong. Make your point, as your opinion and stop bashing someone else's opinion as though you are giving pure fact.

That is all.

(FYI, it seems some of the more prominent forum posters do this constantly)

[Aranticus]

I am a regular forum reader and post somewhat often. I like reading most of the points some make and some of the ignorance of others. What annoys me most about these forums is all the people claiming this or that as fact. You come off looking like a jerk. You are wrong, no YOU are WRONG. Please, both are stating opinions, which means nobody is wrong. Make your point, as your opinion and stop bashing someone else's opinion as though you are giving pure fact.

That is all.

(FYI, it seems some of the more prominent forum posters do this constantly)

wrong. there are some things that are facts, ie

the khopesh does more damage than a longsword on Arraetrikos on normal setting

the following can be said to be an opinion

ranged combat sucks

[Aspenor]

(FYI, it seems some of the more prominent forum posters do this constantly)

Wrong.

Actually, true But a lot of us do it that way just for the shock factor, don't take it too seriously.

[Leyoni]

wrong. there are some things that are facts, ie

the khopesh does more damage than a longsword on Arraetrikos on normal setting

the following can be said to be an opinion

ranged combat sucks

LOL!

Seems that this was OP's point. More than that, fact (as Aranticus has defined it) is highly dependent on how it is presented.

For example, an observable difference between longsword and kopesh is a x2 vs x3 critical multiplier. Another observable difference is the need to acquire kopesh as an exotic weapon feat. An unobservable difference might be attack speed. There may be others as well.

Depending on how many of these mitigating differences are included in the fact it might be possible to prove just about anything. The routine failure of posters to include all of the mitigating differences causes the fact to become opinion at the very best (and a lie at the worst).

[oogly54]

wrong. there are some things that are facts, ie

the khopesh does more damage than a longsword on Arraetrikos on normal setting

the following can be said to be an opinion

ranged combat sucks

Obviously there are facts in this world, those are obviously not part of this discussion. Thanks for the Trolling.

[oogly54]

Wrong.

Actually, true But a lot of us do it that way just for the shock factor, don't take it too seriously.

Whether you are doing it intentionally or not, it still comes accross poorly and usually enrages the person you said WRONG!!!!!!!! to. Not conducive to good debate. Showing respect for ones opinions while maturely stating ones own is a much better method for proving your point. (usually adding in some actual facts helps this too)

IMO

[oogly54]

wrong. there are some things that are facts, ie

the khopesh does more damage than a longsword on Arraetrikos on normal setting

the following can be said to be an opinion

ranged combat sucks

Furthermore, in the context you have given, it is NOT fact. A masterwok khopesh will not do more damage than a MIN II longsward. This is just my point, stating you are wrong, he is wrong, everyone is wrong, when you are actually not stating why something is wrong or what you are stating is an opinion.

[Aspenor]

Whether you are doing it intentionally or not, it still comes accross poorly and usually enrages the person you said WRONG!!!!!!!! to. Not conducive to good debate. Showing respect for ones opinions while maturely stating ones own is a much better method for proving your point. (usually adding in some actual facts helps this too)

IMO

Wrong.

[oogly54]

Wrong.

An opinion is NEVER wrong.

But troll on.

[kaidendager]

What annoys me most about these forums is all the people claiming this or that as fact. You come off looking like a jerk.

Heh, I actually agree with you here Oog. While I wish I would have been a bit quicker than some of the previous posts I'll still post what I had originally wrote.

I have a great distaste for posts that start out with "Wrong! ...". It is redundant and a very weak debating tool. Disagreeing with a stated viewpoint should become obvious through further rhettoric and counterpoints rather than a blunt statement without immediate syntactical support. To put it simply its like trying to convert people by hitting them on the head with a Bible and then explaining the text.

Not that it really matters. There are a number of things in forum (this and other) discussion that annoy me to no end though I doubt anyone will be changing for me. Immersing oneself in a culture (forums being the culture in this case) often comes with necessary adaptations.

Good post, nice to see others feel the same at times.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Whether you are doing it intentionally or not, it still comes accross poorly and usually enrages the person you said WRONG!!!!!!!! to. Not conducive to good debate. Showing respect for ones opinions while maturely stating ones own is a much better method for proving your point. (usually adding in some actual facts helps this too)

IMO

Wrong.



























Sorry...couldn't resist.

Presenting opinion as fact is one of the things that does tend to get flames going, but there are times when someone is wrong, I don't see a problem with saying that. However I agree with you that its not enough to say wrong without facts, not opinion, to back up the "wrong".

[Lorien_the_First_One]

An opinion is NEVER wrong.

But troll on.

Using "troll" in a thread you started to encourage reasonded debate and avoid inflamitory polls seems to be weakening your case and your cred...IMO.

[Aspenor]

An opinion is NEVER wrong.

But troll on.

You != the boss of me.

[oogly54]

Using "troll" in a thread you started to encourage reasonded debate and avoid inflamitory polls seems to be weakening your case and your cred...IMO.

When the shoe fits. That post may be the very definition of trolling. IMO

[Aranticus]

LOL!

Seems that this was OP's point. More than that, fact (as Aranticus has defined it) is highly dependent on how it is presented.

For example, an observable difference between longsword and kopesh is a x2 vs x3 critical multiplier. Another observable difference is the need to acquire kopesh as an exotic weapon feat. An unobservable difference might be attack speed. There may be others as well.

Depending on how many of these mitigating differences are included in the fact it might be possible to prove just about anything. The routine failure of posters to include all of the mitigating differences causes the fact to become opinion at the very best (and a lie at the worst).

wrong. a khopesh certainly does more damage if you just compare the basic stats and if a character is proficient with both. swing speed wise, it will require at least 20% difference in order for a longsword to be more damaging so it means the probability of a longsword doing more damage will be extremely low

that said, if i were to put it in this manner, a khopesh is a more effective weapon than a longsword on Arraetrikos on normal, then this is an opinion

[boldarblood]

An opinion is NEVER wrong.

But troll on.

I disagree with this, someone opinion CAN be wrong.

[kaidendager]

An opinion is NEVER wrong.

I disagree with this, someone opinion CAN be wrong.

There went the space-time continuum

[Lorien_the_First_One]

When the shoe fits. That post may be the very definition of trolling. IMO

Ah, but then some posts are the definition of "wrong".

[bobbryan2]

I understand that sometimes stating your opinion as fact can come off like a jerk to others.

But it equally annoys me when someone constantly hedges their opinions just to protect others opinions. It takes pretty thick skin to get in the arena in any online forum, because people will jump down your throat if you're ever wrong on anything.

'It's just my opinion, but I think ranged combat sucks' is virtually identical to saying 'rangd combat sucks'. They don't read the same at all, however... and I'm not just saying that one comes off like a jerk and the other comes off like a nice guy. You can't tell me the former actually comes off as a nice guy at all... If anything, he comes off as uncertain of his position and someone whose advice you want to take with a grain of salt.

I see your point.. but it bugs me when people wishy washy, hedge, and otherwise muddy their points with constant conditionals... because the point gets lost somewhere in translation, it causes me to read more, and usually just makes them seem like they have no clue what they're talking about.

Anyways... I know I get blasted for posting like you describe, especially in guild... but I gotta say... I'd rather post forcefully and come off as a jerk than the alternative.

[Anastasios]

Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction...

Your opinion sucks!!! naw j/k, but most everyone is adamant about their opinion, which I can understand, I just hate it when people can't seem to listen to reason is all, then I say game on,