Congrats on the Abbot win

[frugal_gourmet]

Who really cares? The asteroid puzzle probably won't even exist in two months. I only have a problem with players that lay all the blame on other players when it's clearly the devs fault the raid is like it is.

I blame the society and culture that engenders the players who exploit the content. When you think about it, the root of this problem is socioeconomic in nature. Or something.

Also, albino pygmies. Pretty sure they had something to do with it.

[bobbryan2]

Then why didn't you recall before looting the chest?

If you want to have fun, and possibly run the raid for purposes of providing feedback to Turbine (which is a legitimate reason) then just recall.

That goes from Lawful good to Lawful stupid pretty fast.

[GeneralDiomedes]

That goes from Lawful good to Lawful stupid pretty fast.

Just pointing out that it wasn't all about the fun.

[Baltire]

Who really cares? The asteroid puzzle probably won't even exist in two months. I only have a problem with players that lay all the blame on other players when it's clearly the devs fault the raid is like it is.

Apparently alot of people care as shown by the 100+ posts in this thread, either for or against, its clear that a bunch of people care.

[BigNastyMP]

I respond with righteous indignation at what I perceive to be your righteous indignation! My hypocrisy knows no bounds.

Also, it is not that we are not jealous of abbott loot, it is that we are not envious of abbott loot. Jealousy is not envy. My hypocrisy only goes so far.

[Thelmallen]

As for being hypocritical, I dont remember anywhere in one of my posts ( and if I did say it, it was not intended) that I care about other people doing this raid "cheese" or not. I merely dont want to hear about it on the forums like its some big accomplishment.

You don't have to read the forums. You can be your own censor.

Take the loot, enjoy it. I dont care about that, but dont flaunt it in everyone who doesnt feel like doing it your way's face. You can do this quest every time you come off timer as far as Im concerned, but stop posting on the forums that you beat the raid, when you clearly have not.

While I agree with your point, bud, nobody flaunted it. A post was made of some screenies but the poster was not saying "booyah! in your face! i have an oooober robe that you don't neeenerneenerneener!"

Either way, no one is right. End of the day, the quest is still broken.

You speak the truth, sir. Please fix this dang thing so we don't have to endure differences of opinion like this.

Replies in red

[Baltire]

Replies in red

With many of the people in this thread agreeing that this raid is unbeatable without using the "cheese" tactics and ways that have been talked about, just by posting that they have beaten an unbeatable raid is flaunting it.

[Cadaia]

Criminals work hard to rob banks. Doesn't make it legitimate.

It takes a lot of planning and coordination. Just like 'cheesing' these raids.

[Thelmallen]

It takes a lot of planning and coordination. Just like 'cheesing' these raids.

Do you know from personal experience or did you watch Ocean's Eleven recently?

[soupertc]

do You Know From Personal Experience Or Did You Watch ocean's Eleven Recently?

Lol

[Cadaia]

Do you know from personal experience or did you watch Ocean's Eleven recently?

I think I'll plead the fifth on that.

[Tanka]

Yes... obviously you are closer to what the devs intended. They obviously intended on no one ever running this quest, and actually boycotting the raid that was the culmination of three modules of storytelling.

If I had to choose between two people that were closer to doing what the devs intended between

Person A) Who sits on his butt, boycotts the raid, and accuses everyone who attempts the raid as being morally bankrupt

and

Person B) Who tries to beat the raid to the best of his ability...

I'm gonna go with B every single time. If you don't want to run it.. fine. But don't accuse others of doing things the devs didn't intend... because you are too.

If a raid is broken and "cannot be physically beat without exploiting", then, no, nobody should run it. If the Devs see zero runs/completions because of how broken it is, it might actually motivate them to do something about it rather than let it fester for a whole year before saying "oh, yeah, I've got some changes lined up for M9".

The Abbot is the red-headed stepchild of DDO, and it always will be. From now until its death cries every raid will be compared to the Abbot. Even if it gets fixed to being able to be completed reliably without exploits, there are only two items worth a hoot, and one of them is only if you're a ranged character (which are fewer and fewer now).

Exploiting to beat a broken raid is not an achievement. In my book, it isn't a win. Yes, it increments your /quest completions, but you didn't win. You didn't actually beat the Asteroids, you just froze your client long enough to "get past."

[Fourfingers]

you just froze your client long enough to "get past."

If/when that exploit is fixed, it will likely eliminate the topic for this thread. When people are no longer able to use that method to bypass tile timing and asteroid area effects this raid will revert back to incompletable. That is, until hopefully the changes in mod 9.

I strongly suspect, that if you had a developer sitting next to you, and showed them how you were getting past the goggle and asteroid puzzles, aside from getting bored waiting to complete the quest over an hour later, they would call it cheese and not as intended. So, while it increments your /quest cheese completions, it still amounts to zero in the actual accomplishment category.

[bobbryan2]

If a raid is broken and "cannot be physically beat without exploiting", then, no, nobody should run it. If the Devs see zero runs/completions because of how broken it is, it might actually motivate them to do something about it rather than let it fester for a whole year before saying "oh, yeah, I've got some changes lined up for M9".

The Abbot is the red-headed stepchild of DDO, and it always will be. From now until its death cries every raid will be compared to the Abbot. Even if it gets fixed to being able to be completed reliably without exploits, there are only two items worth a hoot, and one of them is only if you're a ranged character (which are fewer and fewer now).

Exploiting to beat a broken raid is not an achievement. In my book, it isn't a win. Yes, it increments your /quest completions, but you didn't win. You didn't actually beat the Asteroids, you just froze your client long enough to "get past."

The Devs ARE motivated to fixing Abbot. Even now that completions are rolling in. I don't know why they took so long. You should ask them. I guarantee it didn't take them so long to fix it because they though, "oh, well, I guess we don't need to fix it, cuz everyone's exploiting it all the time. hooray!"

No.. the moral high ground is never to simply 'not play the game.'

I'm sure devs would rather players do things they didn't intend rather than not run the raid at all.

And as far as it being an achievement.. of course it is. It doesn't matter what your book says. Even with cheese, the Abbot puzzles are a ton harder than playing Lights Out or Mastermind.

Hey... if you want to get a stick up your butt, go ahead. Just do it on your own, and don't blast people that are trying their best. Blast the devs for the sorry state of the Abbot.

[Tanka]

The Devs ARE motivated to fixing Abbot. Even now that completions are rolling in. I don't know why they took so long. You should ask them. I guarantee it didn't take them so long to fix it because they though, "oh, well, I guess we don't need to fix it, cuz everyone's exploiting it all the time. hooray!"

No.. the moral high ground is never to simply 'not play the game.'

I'm sure devs would rather players do things they didn't intend rather than not run the raid at all.

And as far as it being an achievement.. of course it is. It doesn't matter what your book says. Even with cheese, the Abbot puzzles are a ton harder than playing Lights Out or Mastermind.

Hey... if you want to get a stick up your butt, go ahead. Just do it on your own, and don't blast people that are trying their best. Blast the devs for the sorry state of the Abbot.

I've "blasted" both in the past. Players who cheat (do note cheating/exploiting is against the CoC and can result in permanent account banning) and Devs who don't fix obviously broken quests because they'd rather let them sit and fester forever until enough exploited completions roll through that they have to do something or look like they're giving exploits the go-ahead.

Too little too late in either way, as it's common practice to exploit Abbot now. Just like it was with Death Pact or summons for the Shroud.

Exploits are exploits. Using them cheapens the game significantly. If people want to brag about exploiting, cool. Maybe the GMs will do something about it this time around.

[Junts]

I've "blasted" both in the past. Players who cheat (do note cheating/exploiting is against the CoC and can result in permanent account banning) and Devs who don't fix obviously broken quests because they'd rather let them sit and fester forever until enough exploited completions roll through that they have to do something or look like they're giving exploits the go-ahead.

Too little too late in either way, as it's common practice to exploit Abbot now. Just like it was with Death Pact or summons for the Shroud.

Exploits are exploits. Using them cheapens the game significantly. If people want to brag about exploiting, cool. Maybe the GMs will do something about it this time around.

Tanka's reponses were so predictable I should have made a bet with someone. We bow to your moral fortitude and superiority, dude. Life must be so easy with moral absolutes like that.

[Junts]

If/when that exploit is fixed, it will likely eliminate the topic for this thread. When people are no longer able to use that method to bypass tile timing and asteroid area effects this raid will revert back to incompletable. That is, until hopefully the changes in mod 9.

I strongly suspect, that if you had a developer sitting next to you, and showed them how you were getting past the goggle and asteroid puzzles, aside from getting bored waiting to complete the quest over an hour later, they would call it cheese and not as intended. So, while it increments your /quest cheese completions, it still amounts to zero in the actual accomplishment category.

Dunno what's happening on sarlona, but the phase tile puzzle is legitimately beatable and we do it about half the time

If people need tricks to bbeat it, they're just sad.

[Tanka]

Tanka's reponses were so predictable I should have made a bet with someone. We bow to your moral fortitude and superiority, dude. Life must be so easy with moral absolutes like that.

Then, please, show me you can beat the Asteroids without exploiting. Until then, I question every completion announcement that comes up.

[bobbryan2]

Then, please, show me you can beat the Asteroids without exploiting. Until then, I question every completion announcement that comes up.

Who cares if you question it. Last time I checked, you weren't the logger of all things achievements.

Why don't you just let them have their moment of triumph and stay out of it?

[Tanka]

Who cares if you question it. Last time I checked, you weren't the logger of all things achievements.

Why don't you just let them have their moment of triumph and stay out of it?

Cheating isn't an achievement.