Congrats on the Abbot win

[Quanefel]

This thread is getting sad. Lots of bragging and judging others. Bragging doesnt befit anyone good enough to be able to brag. I joined one of those abbot runs for hte first time yesterday. I applaud the people spending time trying to beat this quest. And being unable to do so legitimately, were very creative and thought outside the box. Literally. It's not the way the devs intended, but hte people were having fun. it's just a game, and I'm glad people are finding ways to have fun together.

I was also saddened that DDO has such a screwed up raid that only 1 percent of players can finish the raid, and maybe only .1 percent of those legitimately. Here's hoping they fix the raid so more people can enjoy it.

Clever is the term when something is done once. Doing it more after that is no longer clever, it becomes a pattern. And if exploiting something to continue the pattern, its still exploiting. Not being clever.

[Baltire]

Clever is the term when something is done once. Doing it more after that is no longer clever, it becomes a pattern. And if exploiting something to continue the pattern, its still exploiting. Not being clever.

I know I said I was done with this thread...but I have to post this.....


HOLY C*RAP, I agree with Q for once....


shoot me now....


OK, now Im really out.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Good post junts.

I will raise one point though - people that say 'I can do this raid any way I like, I'm having fun and it's not affecting anyone else' - well I will respectfully disagree with that - and this was the point I have stressed in every post I've made in this thread. The completions of the raid *do* affect my gaming enjoyment, not only because of the dev time that might be diverted away from really fixing the Abbot when they see all these seemingly legitimate completions, but also because it's devaluing the raid loot that I should only be obtaining by doing the raid legitimately. Raid loot devaluation affects everyone.

Examine when the Shroud was being exploited by chain lightning and people were zooming through part 3 and then bugging harry in part 5 and ending up doing regular sub 15 minute pug completions - that resulted in the devaluing of large ingredients, the proliferation of green steel items and thus (albeit indirectly) the inflation of quest difficulty as a result for those players who chose not to exploit.

And I haven't even talked about how I might want to try and complete the raid legitimately - but someone ports to Asteroids and cracks open a can of Wensleydale on the platform without me even knowing thus indirectly involving me in exploitation tactics and potentially griefing my raid.

Yes I know some of these arguments are a bit far fetched but to say that people exploiting a raid doesn't affect others in the game is slightly short sighted.

Garth

[Junts]

Good post junts.

I will raise one point though - people that say 'I can do this raid any way I like, I'm having fun and it's not affecting anyone else' - well I will respectfully disagree with that - and this was the point I have stressed in every post I've made in this thread. The completions of the raid *do* affect my gaming enjoyment, not only because of the dev time that might be diverted away from really fixing the Abbot when they see all these seemingly legitimate completions, but also because it's devaluing the raid loot that I should only be obtaining by doing the raid legitimately. Raid loot devaluation affects everyone.

Examine when the Shroud was being exploited by chain lightning and people were zooming through part 3 and then bugging harry in part 5 and ending up doing regular sub 15 minute pug completions - that resulted in the devaluing of large ingredients, the proliferation of green steel items and thus (albeit indirectly) the inflation of quest difficulty as a result for those players who chose not to exploit.

And I haven't even talked about how I might want to try and complete the raid legitimately - but someone ports to Asteroids and cracks open a can of Wensleydale on the platform without me even knowing thus indirectly involving me in exploitation tactics and potentially griefing my raid.

Yes I know some of these arguments are a bit far fetched but to say that people exploiting a raid doesn't affect others in the game is slightly short sighted.

Garth

I can see that argument but I still question it; I doubt that all this produces enough litanys of the dead or vile blasphemies to affect any kind of quest design or, for that matter, performance, given how few of the abbot raidloot items are really good and, for one of the ones that is, how few characters can use it without penalty anyway.

Circles of hatred aren't threatening the value of 13 and 15 intim items, nor are enduring convictions threatening banishing ss/rapiers (and the second is unfortunate, since more toons that stuck to a slash spec and were rewarded would benefit the game).


There are so few completions and the barrier to get them (asteroids aside) is so high that the parallel to the shroud is just inaccurate; a lot of luck and persistance is involved and there's just no danger that people are going to acquire so many items out of there that it changes quest balancing; in fact, we know eladrin has already redone the quest for m9, so even the 'danger of them thinking it is ok' is well past; I would bet money that they know exactly how completions are happening and their attitude amounts to 'it doesn't matter, that's why we're redoing the raid'.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

I can see that argument but I still question it; I doubt that all this produces enough litanys of the dead or vile blasphemies to affect any kind of quest design or, for that matter, performance, given how few of the abbot raidloot items are really good and, for one of the ones that is, how few characters can use it without penalty anyway.

Circles of hatred aren't threatening the value of 13 and 15 intim items, nor are enduring convictions threatening banishing ss/rapiers (and the second is unfortunate, since more toons that stuck to a slash spec and were rewarded would benefit the game)

True - but it still gives me a nasty taste in my mouth every time I see someone running around with a Silver Flame Outfit or one of those fancy spikey bows, when I know for a fact that it's been obtained illegitimately*. That's not fun.

Garth

*characters I know were created after the Abbot was patched to make puzzles mandatory.

[Justin1341]

True - but it still gives me a nasty taste in my mouth every time I see someone running around with a Silver Flame Outfit or one of those fancy spikey bows, when I know for a fact that it's been obtained illegitimately*. That's not fun.

Garth

*characters I know were created after the Abbot was patched to make puzzles mandatory.

Garth, we worked HARD for our items. Pike off.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Garth, we worked HARD for our items. Pike off.

Criminals work hard to rob banks. Doesn't make it legitimate. If you resort to insults then I'm sure I won't be the only only clicking the little exclamation mark.

Garth

[Junts]

True - but it still gives me a nasty taste in my mouth every time I see someone running around with a Silver Flame Outfit or one of those fancy spikey bows, when I know for a fact that it's been obtained illegitimately*. That's not fun.

Garth

*characters I know were created after the Abbot was patched to make puzzles mandatory.

I understand your sentiment but being familiar with the effort and resources involved in winning anyway I admit I rather feel like people deserve them; then again, I've got some nightshield clickies myself so I'm probably biased in that regard.

Even as it stands, none of the loot (except litany) is worth the effort on a pure cost/benefit analysis.

[Justin1341]

Criminals work hard to rob banks. Doesn't make it legitimate. If you resort to insults then I'm sure I won't be the only only clicking the little exclamation mark.

Garth

Pike off is not a violation of the CoC. I was told this by a Senior GM. Would you like screenshots?

[KatanAztar]

Criminals work hard to rob banks. Doesn't make it legitimate. If you resort to insults then I'm sure I won't be the only only clicking the little exclamation mark.

Garth

They are not claiming it to be legit and are not denying their methods. Anyone in the "know" knows it's still a tough quest despite the cheese.

[Deathe]

Everyone that completed should be banned? Wow, so like, I join a pug, the leader says "Dethe go in first and beat on the Abbot", I do, I die, no res came, what they did I really don't know cuz really I wasn't really paying attention, was busy watching porn on my other monitor. I got favor, whoot! No raid loot, boo. Banned? Um, okay.

More than anything I'm just taken aback by the better-than-thou snobbery in here. I join a lotta pugs, I like diversity in groups, meeting new people, and not always running quests the same way. It's disappointing that there has been so much attitude from people that I've run with quite a bit over the last number of years, the crass and often pompous tone that has been used is unattractive at best.

While I certainly can see room for disagreement and have no issue with people voicing their opinions, the level of hostility in this thread is unquestionably uncalled for.

- Dethe

PS On a side note I think anyone who used the word "cheese" in this thread should be banned, I find it annoying and offensive. =)

[Dummmmy]

lol the word pompous makes me laugh

[edaciousx]

you guys are such a bunch of panzys. if we complete it, who cares? the number of abbot completions compared to other raids clearly shows that the abbot raid is broken.

And, for you all that are crying over us beating it, regardless of how we beat it... quit being a bunch of lamers. who cares if other people complete it. we compelted it, so what???

Seriously, there's more things in life to be bugered by than a few people playing a video game and beating a raid.

I mean seriously, go watch the news. Plenty of better things to be bothered by. you lamers.

[spyderwolf]

i havent done the abbott in months and dont feel the need to even try it.(at least not until mod 9) but i could really care less if others exploit and beat it. in the end who cares if someone does something in a way you dont approve of. until you pay for their account you cant have any control over it. i respect alot of you neos alot, but i know 100% for certain that some members have exploited in the past. so its kinda funny to me that a few of you are coming off so vehemently on the group who did the abbott. im not saying this to attack anyone or NSR. but jsut to add a little outside perspective. you cant 2 and 3 man the reaver in the safe spot while you could do so, and then get down on people for doing a different raid using an exploit.


p.s. in no way,shape , or form am i bagging nsr, jsut stating how this thread looks to me reading it.

p.s.s and im not taking a high road here. you do what ya wanna do to beat anything since you are paying for your own account.

[soupertc]

Dang Jerry.....seems some people have made a mountain out of a mole hill!!!

I agree with both sides....cause it's easier....and it really don't matter.

[soupertc]

we are elitist pricks and have a right to be.....

out of everything said in this thread this has to be the most bizzare.

[Baron]

True - but it still gives me a nasty taste in my mouth every time I see someone running around with a Silver Flame Outfit or one of those fancy spikey bows, when I know for a fact that it's been obtained illegitimately*. That's not fun.

Garth

*characters I know were created after the Abbot was patched to make puzzles mandatory.

Hmmmm, I have some toons that completed the raid when you could just beat him down (Pre Nurf) and another who completed the raid we are discussing here (Post Nerf). Do you know all of my older toons?

I have examined the toons from all directions and have not found the "He completed it after the nerf tag".

Prey tell us where that is? I am so worried about "that taste in your mouth".

We had a lot of fun on the first unsucessful attempt and the second sucessful run.

This in spike of a bugged room that can not be done the way it is set up and I get to log in and find squeaks by some mice who I know have been at the cheese in other parts of the DDO barn in days past.

I remember watching lots of folks running in and out of the Reaver while I sat outside on my toons and watched the rapidly changing LFM's way back when. Some familar names. Of course I was not in there so I can not say what if anything was going on so I kept quiet.

I have noticed the great thing about soap boxes is often when someone gets up on one and really gets at it the sweat begins to fall onto that dry soap and after a while they tend to slide off and bust the speaking part of their body.

People who know me know that the abbot roid room is the only place I go around the the Dev approved method and just that one room. Because it can not be done otherwise, it has been nerfed for over a year and I want to do the raid on all my toons for favor.

The nice part is I do not partically care about other people's toons and their equipment.

I am here to have fun.

I do care when I am insulted by inference by those "cold and timid souls who know neither the victory or defeat" at the hands of a bugged raid and then whine about those who went into the arena.

[artvan_delet]

Good post junts.

I will raise one point though - people that say 'I can do this raid any way I like, I'm having fun and it's not affecting anyone else' - well I will respectfully disagree with that - and this was the point I have stressed in every post I've made in this thread. The completions of the raid *do* affect my gaming enjoyment, not only because of the dev time that might be diverted away from really fixing the Abbot when they see all these seemingly legitimate completions, but also because it's devaluing the raid loot that I should only be obtaining by doing the raid legitimately. Raid loot devaluation affects everyone.

Examine when the Shroud was being exploited by chain lightning and people were zooming through part 3 and then bugging harry in part 5 and ending up doing regular sub 15 minute pug completions - that resulted in the devaluing of large ingredients, the proliferation of green steel items and thus (albeit indirectly) the inflation of quest difficulty as a result for those players who chose not to exploit.

And I haven't even talked about how I might want to try and complete the raid legitimately - but someone ports to Asteroids and cracks open a can of Wensleydale on the platform without me even knowing thus indirectly involving me in exploitation tactics and potentially griefing my raid.

Yes I know some of these arguments are a bit far fetched but to say that people exploiting a raid doesn't affect others in the game is slightly short sighted.

Garth

I don't agree that the Shroud was fixed because the devs were watching completions. The Shroud was "fixed" because so many complained about the exploits, in my opinion. I agree that raid loot devaluation affects everyone, but there are so few completions of this raid, that's not an issue yet. I have no sympathy for Turbine regarding the abbot however, because they have known this quest has been buggered for over a year. And they haven't lifted a finger so far. Again, here's hoping they fix this quest.

Perhaps the vitriol in this thread will get some dev attention.

[lishufeng86]

you guys are such a bunch of panzys. if we complete it, who cares? the number of abbot completions compared to other raids clearly shows that the abbot raid is broken.

And, for you all that are crying over us beating it, regardless of how we beat it... quit being a bunch of lamers. who cares if other people complete it. we compelted it, so what???

Seriously, there's more things in life to be bugered by than a few people playing a video game and beating a raid.

I mean seriously, go watch the news. Plenty of better things to be bothered by. you lamers.

agree
in china we always said : 吃不到葡萄说葡萄酸
lol

[Mockduck]

Dang Jerry.....seems some people have made a mountain out of a mole hill!!!

I agree with both sides....cause it's easier....and it really don't matter.

Yeah, but I should have known that this issue's a bit too controversial. I blame myself! Still, it's been interesting to read (for the most part). I find myself agreeing with both sides to some extent as well.

I'm glad the Abbot is getting a change in Mod 9. Hopefully, it'll end this debate.

The best I've done in the asteroid room is probably a dozen or so asteroids, maybe a bit more. My big regret is that I could never beat it! I generally get high scores on the '78 Asteroids game, so this one always bugs me...