Congrats on the Abbot win

[simloc]

well right clicking the windows mode is a cheat.. and i think sergod teh one that bragged abot doing it that way so weather or not it is .... I personally think is bull **** and its doable with ot cheatign ... yes its a big ***** and not worth doign but doable.. so stop whinning and take your cheating ass back to the hole you shout be in

[Mical]

this really isnt worth arguing

im just gonna say it really feels great at least killing the buggr..
+ the loot is awsome

so yea, end of argument

[Justin1341]

If it cannot be done without exploits:

Don't
Do
It

Simple, really.

Why? I want raid loot Turbine added to the game for us to use in a raid that Turbine added to the game for us to run. Just because the Neos can't beat it in the only way their uberness will do it means that our nooby butts shouldn't use our brains to figure out other ways to succced where ya'll failed?

[Mical]

+ as ppl said before the cheat is only one small thing, you stil have to take him down and the inferno and the ice room and the phase googles..

so yea

okay im done

hehe

[Justin1341]

well right clicking the windows mode is a cheat.. and i think sergod teh one that bragged abot doing it that way so weather or not it is .... I personally think is bull **** and its doable with ot cheatign ... yes its a big ***** and not worth doign but doable.. so stop whinning and take your cheating ass back to the hole you shout be in

Actually I never bragged about how I beat the Abbott. I just bragged about beating it. I felt it was an accomplishment killing him after 300 hours of work.

[Kanamycin]

because as we all know in the world of ddo , things can be done only one way , any other way is FAIL!!!!!

and for some reason no one takes down these threads speaking openly about an exploit , oh wait , maybe it is not an exploit,

are you telling me in RL if someone sent you into a room full of danger and gave you a way "out" of that danger that would only end in your demise that you would do it? because that would be the honorable thing right ?


by the way DO NOT STEP FOOT INTO THE SHROUD WITHOUT COMPLETING THE ABBOT OR YOU ARE USING A CHEESY TACTIC!

[moops]

This is silly.

I have never finished the Abbot, however, every now and then I get curious if anyone has figured out a way to beat it legit, and the only way to do this is to actually step in the raid and try it--many of my friends from all sorts of guilds have been in the Abbot recently for the same reason, to see if there is a new legit strategy out there.

I have several guildies that weren't even playing when the Abbot first came out, and they join abbot LFMS, many of them not even knowing about the cheese, just to see what it looks like.

In the end this is a game that everyone pays for. I may not want to exploit the Abbot, but I'm sure as heck not going to jump on anyone else about it, their game let them Play the way they want. Plus I have too many friends that are doing it, and it would make putting groups together and gaming extremely uncomfortable.

[Xiloscient]

To quote their forums:


I'm not giving props to exploiters. Sorry guys, but if you have to exploit just to win, it isn't a win.

Tell me when you beat it without exploits.

"“He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone""

So Tanka once you do it without any help then you can talk about exploiting i am 100% sure you HAVE used some sort of exploit sometime that you have been playing DDO

[gfunk]

I'm not sure where comparative video gaming ethics fits in the grand scheme of cultural morality... but it's gotta be pretty far down the list. Certainly not worth getting into a bit fight over.

I know the Abbot is tough, even with employing disputed methods, and I offer congratulations to those who beat this tough raid. Personally, I'm not going anywhere near this raid (until mod 9), but I'm not going to cast stones at people who want to complete it in its current form. Just because it's not the way I want to beat the raid doesnt mean it's not cool for other people to beat it that way.. there is always more then one way to look at anything (CoC aside).

[Amadan83]

"“He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone""

So Tanka once you do it without any help then you can talk about exploiting i am 100% sure you HAVE used some sort of exploit sometime that you have been playing DDO

well i have 2 things to say here... 1... religion has no place in DDO... at least not our religions.... the silver flame is fine... but seriously, we're playing a video game, using a "cheat" or an exploit is not a "sin" i'm sure the bible doesn't say

"thou shalt not right click on the windows screen in the abbot raid"

and WRT to the people moaning about how the abbot is being beaten only with exploits... that's human nature.... it's foolish to think that if there's an easy way to do something, you're going to CHOOSE the harder way, simply because of a moral standard... in which case... you should probably re evaluate your life, if you take such a high moral ground in a VIDEO GAME.

ok so some people cheat in a video game to get some items... besides, it's Sergod... do you guys expect anything else?? the guy plays 25 hours a day... raids constantly... to get one item, to boost his AC 1 point... do you really think he cares about your moral standard?? or your re-written bible that says cheating in the abbot is a sin??

and in closing..........

there may be cheating, there may be exploits... but with people who are doing this... and using exploits, it's drawing attention to this raid that isn't being run very often... which is drawing people into this raid... it's bringing people who DO take that moral high ground into the raid to prove to people like Sergod that it can be done without exploits.... but ask him if he cares???


*edit*
oh and......

"let he who is without shins, cast the first bone"

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

To the OP: sorry the way in which your thread has been hijacked, the tone of my original post makes me partly responsible, but I stand by that post. I just hope the eladrin fixes in mod 9 make the asteroids room possible without Fromage.

To the People Who Beat It: I still think it takes a lot of perseverance and skill to do the abbot even with cheese (unless there's a particular brand of Camembert that I'm not aware of) so props go out to you, but as Tanka says if you're cheating the raid then you're not really doing it legit and so it doesn't really count - if I were The Boss I would be taking away your raid loot, but I'm not so hey.

To the NSR bashers: NSR never has, and will not, use any exploits in any groups they have control over. We also actively make sure that anyone sporting the NSR tag is not involved in any raids/quests that are using cheese. However, as some people have rightly said, some newer people in NSR might not have been aware of the cheesy nature of the current Abbot completions: they are now aware.

To everyone else: I wish you had posted this thread earlier in the day, I was hella bored at work today waiting on compiles and test results, and needed something like this to spice up my day, in the end I was out skiing when it all kicked off so I missed all the fun

To the cube: happy munching.

Garth

[BuzzSaw]

Congratulations on cheating everyone...

1) Turbine should have closed the Abbot raid if it could not be beaten properly
2) Anyone beating the broken raid should be banned for exploiting

You should be banned not congratulated nor celebrated for cheating.

Just how I feel. Sometimes it's better to go without then jump though hoops trying to justify your actions.
Buzz

[Tanka]

To everyone else: I wish you had posted this thread earlier in the day, I was hella bored at work today waiting on compiles and test results, and needed something like this to spice up my day, in the end I was out skiing when it all kicked off so I missed all the fun

Sorry man, no access to the forums (or much else) while at work.

[Justin1341]

Congratulations on cheating everyone...

1) Turbine should have closed the Abbot raid if it could not be beaten properly
2) Anyone beating the broken raid should be banned for exploiting

You should be banned not congratulated nor celebrated for cheating.

Just how I feel. Sometimes it's better to go without then jump though hoops trying to justify your actions.
Buzz

Im not trying to justify anything to anyone cuz I could care less what yall think of how I beat this raid. I just the hypocricy of the high and mighty here pathetic. Acting like were worthless noobs and they are perfect elitist pricks. I mean come on they came with me on runs, some of them did creative things in Shroud, a bunch of them did LOTD.

[Junts]

I love the hypocrisy of people's abbot positions; picking up soulstones is clearly a bannable exploit, but blocking in kasquik in the shroud so people can get sp back, or bouncing mob aggro between firewalls, or the old run to the corner of the shroud and pull aggro technique, or wedging the mage between sorjek and a wall in sos, or using a solver for the monestary puzzle (or using the ceiling light, or both), or healing people down the corridors of the twilight forge, or stealth-pulling maldetto in cursed crypt, or any fw-in-the-door aggro strategy, or sleet storming to move arraetrikos in the shroud; those things are all normal and a-ok (if not always necessary or at times silly), even though they frequently lead to quests being defeated 'not in the way they were designed'.


If you run short-man, non-completion titans, you are also beating a raid in a way it clearly isn't designed to be beaten (you aren't even finishing twilight forge!), but I don't see witchhunts on the forums about 'titan, fast short man' lfms.

Its clear that the developers realize that the asteroid room is unreasonable, and equally clear that they probably don't care how people confront it until they fix it. The rest of the raid is completely beatable with practice, and I have completed the tile puzzle several times (on both ends) without any sort of cheese whatsoever, and I am far from good at it. hell, i have seen (3 times now) someone run and jump blind across the tile puzzle after someone failed another, just for the sake of trying, and reach the other side successfully - an abundant step monk only needs to land successfully on tiles about 3 times to pull this off, vastly reducing the number of tiles that could drop out from under him.



The indignation in this thread is just kind of sad; its a great excuse for players to feel morally superior, even while dozens of other quests are defeated in ways that the quest designers did not imagine or intend.

The abbot as it stands is an extremely difficult raid to complete (even after the puzzles, without use of a cake of wishing), and posters who choose to denigrate players who are successfully beating the ice, tile and inferno as designed (all trying, frustrating and difficult in their own ways) are taking self-righteousness to the point of comedy.

Think about this; you're in a raid, you do your job and beat your portion, but you want the 10 people who aren't in the asteroids to recall in protest because they suspect the players in it did something you might find morally offensive? seriously?

No one said you had to go and do it, but to denigrate the coordination, teamwork and effort required by those other players is simply rude and inconsiderate; that raid, the asteroid puzzle ignored, is more difficult to complete than any other raid on any difficulty setting, and those capable of reliably solving it - with all the communication and thought it requires to find the right way to approach those puzzles - deserve to be recognized as having done an extraordinary job. People should be proud of the first time they complete those puzzles, especially tile; my group failed the raid the first time I beat the tile puzzle, but I remain proud of having done so (even if i have mixed results repeating the phenomenon).

Say "I'm glad Eladrin is fixing the ******** asteroid puzzle", then "wow, I'm really impressed you guys beat the goggle puzzle, how did you do that? do you have any tips? how do you line yourselves up, and communicate how far to run? do you always use the same rows of tiles?" and possibly "how'd you deal w ith the inferno? how many times did he get it off before he died? did you get an encasement over the water, or heal through it? How fast did he go down?"

If it makes you feel better to wait til m9 to run the raid, more power to you.

[Xiloscient]

i Love The Hypocrisy Of People's Abbot Positions; Picking Up Soulstones Is Clearly A Bannable Exploit, But Blocking In Kasquik In The Shroud So People Can Get Sp Back, Or Bouncing Mob Aggro Between Firewalls, Or The Old Run To The Corner Of The Shroud And Pull Aggro Technique, Or Wedging The Mage Between Sorjek And A Wall In Sos, Or Using A Solver For The Monestary Puzzle (or Using The Ceiling Light, Or Both), Or Healing People Down The Corridors Of The Twilight Forge, Or Stealth-pulling Maldetto In Cursed Crypt, Or Any Fw-in-the-door Aggro Strategy, Or Sleet Storming To Move Arraetrikos In The Shroud; Those Things Are All Normal And A-ok (if Not Always Necessary Or At Times Silly), Even Though They Frequently Lead To Quests Being Defeated 'not In The Way They Were Designed'.


If You Run Short-man, Non-completion Titans, You Are Also Beating A Raid In A Way It Clearly Isn't Designed To Be Beaten (you Aren't Even Finishing Twilight Forge!), But I Don't See Witchhunts On The Forums About 'titan, Fast Short Man' Lfms.

Its Clear That The Developers Realize That The Asteroid Room Is Unreasonable, And Equally Clear That They Probably Don't Care How People Confront It Until They Fix It. The Rest Of The Raid Is Completely Beatable With Practice, And I Have Completed The Tile Puzzle Several Times (on Both Ends) Without Any Sort Of Cheese Whatsoever, And I Am Far From Good At It. Hell, I Have Seen (3 Times Now) Someone Run And Jump Blind Across The Tile Puzzle After Someone Failed Another, Just For The Sake Of Trying, And Reach The Other Side Successfully - An Abundant Step Monk Only Needs To Land Successfully On Tiles About 3 Times To Pull This Off, Vastly Reducing The Number Of Tiles That Could Drop Out From Under Him.



The Indignation In This Thread Is Just Kind Of Sad; Its A Great Excuse For Players To Feel Morally Superior, Even While Dozens Of Other Quests Are Defeated In Ways That The Quest Designers Did Not Imagine Or Intend.

The Abbot As It Stands Is An Extremely Difficult Raid To Complete (even After The Puzzles, Without Use Of A Cake Of Wishing), And Posters Who Choose To Denigrate Players Who Are Successfully Beating The Ice, Tile And Inferno As Designed (all Trying, Frustrating And Difficult In Their Own Ways) Are Taking Self-righteousness To The Point Of Comedy.

Think About This; You're In A Raid, You Do Your Job And Beat Your Portion, But You Want The 10 People Who Aren't In The Asteroids To Recall In Protest Because They Suspect The Players In It Did Something You Might Find Morally Offensive? Seriously?

No One Said You Had To Go And Do It, But To Denigrate The Coordination, Teamwork And Effort Required By Those Other Players Is Simply Rude And Inconsiderate; That Raid, The Asteroid Puzzle Ignored, Is More Difficult To Complete Than Any Other Raid On Any Difficulty Setting, And Those Capable Of Reliably Solving It - With All The Communication And Thought It Requires To Find The Right Way To Approach Those Puzzles - Deserve To Be Recognized As Having Done An Extraordinary Job. People Should Be Proud Of The First Time They Complete Those Puzzles, Especially Tile; My Group Failed The Raid The First Time I Beat The Tile Puzzle, But I Remain Proud Of Having Done So (even If I Have Mixed Results Repeating The Phenomenon).

Say "i'm Glad Eladrin Is Fixing The ******** Asteroid Puzzle", Then "wow, I'm Really Impressed You Guys Beat The Goggle Puzzle, How Did You Do That? Do You Have Any Tips? How Do You Line Yourselves Up, And Communicate How Far To Run? Do You Always Use The Same Rows Of Tiles?" And Possibly "how'd You Deal W Ith The Inferno? How Many Times Did He Get It Off Before He Died? Did You Get An Encasement Over The Water, Or Heal Through It? How Fast Did He Go Down?"

If It Makes You Feel Better To Wait Til M9 To Run The Raid, More Power To You.

100% True!

[Lebrac]

we are elitist pricks and have a right to be..... neo 1st on sarlona to kill dragon... 1st to kill titan..... a lot of the 1st to kill DQ are now in neo... same with the 1st to kill reaver.... None of these did we have to Cheat in any way to beat you should have seen the stupid way that we did dragon the 1st few times it was so bad but we somehow made it work. along with the stupid ways we did a lot of the other raids to start. i don't know who was the 1st to take out shroud hound or vod because well i really didn't play much at those times and didn't care about being the 1st anymore. and i don't care what anyone thinks the dragon still the hardest raid ever to figure out for the 1st time... it took a LONG time for that raid to get done also one of the funnest.

In closing talk trash about beating a raid by exploiting and calling us names cause we care less about what you think about us then what you care we think about you. play legit it makes the game a lot funner. proven by learning to do the shroud without a big cost or using bugs on that. and yes our way is the pretty much adapted way of everyone now.... so bring your talk i will bring what i have done in the game we see what actually has more merit

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

I love the hypocrisy of people's abbot positions; picking up soulstones is clearly a bannable exploit, but blocking in kasquik in the shroud so people can get sp back, or bouncing mob aggro between firewalls, or the old run to the corner of the shroud and pull aggro technique, or wedging the mage between sorjek and a wall in sos, or using a solver for the monestary puzzle (or using the ceiling light, or both), or healing people down the corridors of the twilight forge, or stealth-pulling maldetto in cursed crypt, or any fw-in-the-door aggro strategy, or sleet storming to move arraetrikos in the shroud; those things are all normal and a-ok (if not always necessary or at times silly), even though they frequently lead to quests being defeated 'not in the way they were designed'.

We're not talking about taking soul stones to the asteroids here. In fact, I wouldn't consider that an exploit (my personal test for whether things are an exploit are whether they would be possible 'in real life' and that would be perfectly legit carrying that through a teleport in your backpack). If you don't know what they're doing then it might be best for you not to ask.

Its clear that the developers realize that the asteroid room is unreasonable, and equally clear that they probably don't care how people confront it until they fix it.

The devs have never condoned exploiting.

The rest of the raid is completely beatable with practice, and I have completed the tile puzzle several times (on both ends) without any sort of cheese whatsoever, and I am far from good at it. hell, i have seen (3 times now) someone run and jump blind across the tile puzzle after someone failed another, just for the sake of trying, and reach the other side successfully - an abundant step monk only needs to land successfully on tiles about 3 times to pull this off, vastly reducing the number of tiles that could drop out from under him.

Agree - props to the party (as said in my original post, and my follow up) that they managed these parts of the raid. It's an impressive achievement and takes a lot of coordination and practice.

The indignation in this thread is just kind of sad; its a great excuse for players to feel morally superior, even while dozens of other quests are defeated in ways that the quest designers did not imagine or intend.

No indignation coming from me. I just consider my gaming experience worse because I cannot currently run one of the cornerstone quests in the game - one of the less than a dozen 12 man raids in the game... I also know that the devs look at stats of the successful runs of each quest in the game - and if they think people are running the Abbot 'successfully' then it's going to drop down the priority list of things to fix in the upcoming mod which, again, makes my gaming experience a shallower one.

Garth

[artvan_delet]

This thread is getting sad. Lots of bragging and judging others. Bragging doesnt befit anyone good enough to be able to brag. I joined one of those abbot runs for hte first time yesterday. I applaud the people spending time trying to beat this quest. And being unable to do so legitimately, were very creative and thought outside the box. Literally. It's not the way the devs intended, but hte people were having fun. it's just a game, and I'm glad people are finding ways to have fun together.

I was also saddened that DDO has such a screwed up raid that only 1 percent of players can finish the raid, and maybe only .1 percent of those legitimately. Here's hoping they fix the raid so more people can enjoy it.

[Junts]

We're not talking about taking soul stones to the asteroids here. In fact, I wouldn't consider that an exploit (my personal test for whether things are an exploit are whether they would be possible 'in real life' and that would be perfectly legit carrying that through a teleport in your backpack). If you don't know what they're doing then it might be best for you not to ask.



The devs have never condoned exploiting.



Agree - props to the party (as said in my original post, and my follow up) that they managed these parts of the raid. It's an impressive achievement and takes a lot of coordination and practice.



No indignation coming from me. I just consider my gaming experience worse because I cannot currently run one of the cornerstone quests in the game - one of the less than a dozen 12 man raids in the game... I also know that the devs look at stats of the successful runs of each quest in the game - and if they think people are running the Abbot 'successfully' then it's going to drop down the priority list of things to fix in the upcoming mod which, again, makes my gaming experience a shallower one.

Garth

My post, clearly, was not pointed exclusively at you; I know what you're talking about regarding the asteroid room (I have completed the raid), and I went out of my way to not make any attempt to justify it; in my mind, the devs have left only highly questionable methods of completing that room, know its a problem and are clearly addressing it. In my opinion, they would be addressing the techniques as well -if the puzzle was beatable in other ways-, and are choosing not to because they recognize that players have no other options if they wish to complete the raid until it is redone. I am equally sure that the minimal amount of completions being logged on all servers (I know of almost every group running the abbot on my server; i would estimate we're looking at, tops, 10 completions a week, vs any other raid which is easily getting 5x that a day), and there is no danger in those completions changing Eladrin's tweaks (which I hope are limited to the inferno and the asteroid room; I have no complaint with tile and we now beat it roughly 50% of the time, it simply requires a lot of practice).

In fact, the upcoming changes make me more excited to run the abbot, both because I would like to know that I have defeated as much of it as was possible to defeat before it's changed (especially if it is made easier), and so that I will be good at the parts that go unchanged (especially if tile does not change, which many in our group hope it will not).

Parts of my post were intended for the people in this thread who have flat out asked for the punishment and banning of people who are running this raid; m9 is due soon and we are into that phase where players seek assorted ways to challenge themselves, with more people trying permadeath, solo challenges, short-man challenges, and, as we saw last in september, the abbot - only this time more people are beating it, whereas last time when people declared 'this is abbot month', no one got anywhere.

The barrier to this completion was never asteroids, since people knew as much about it then as they do now; rather, it is that people are learning and disseminating some of the important keys to defeating the very difficult tile puzzle, my guess being that the most notable of those is 'how to line yourself up flawlessly', so people stop going off the front/back of the tile rows, which results in far more tile failures than actual misjudgement of the pattern or someone not following along with their guide. Similarly, people are learning about the sprite clipping issues in aimiing iceball wands, leading to more consistent iceball completions.

The abbot has a ridiculous place in ddo society; people who have one completion run around in their silver-flame or emerald-claw turnin armor and feel special, while those who have many completions hide it as much as possible. The foreign guilds (ddo korea on my server, and fairy tale on sarlona) are much more open about it and have recieved, in my opinion, vastly excessive criticism for completing the raid. If Turbine wanted to do as has been suggested in this thread (strip raid loot, close the quest and ban completers), they could have done so and likely would have months ago, as I know at least 3 guilds on my server have reliably run this twice a week for at least a half a year. Given the sudden and extreme nature of their reaction to the shroud, we know that this power is available to them; that they have chosen not to use it when given repeated opportunities should make it clear they have no intention of doing so.

The reality is that this entire thread is likely to get eaten by the cube, as will other threads like it (like the similar argue-fest going on in the argonessen forums about a completion there), because players are just incapable of being rational, reasoning adults about this raid.

One part of it is completely ********, and the rest of it is challenging, at times frustrating, and extremely rewarding It is unfortunate that so many players are incapable of understanding that those last traits are what draw players to give this raid a whirl while it is a difficult beast; I would be disappointed to see it reach the same difficulty level as the other raids, none of which presents any kind of real failure chance or adrenaline rush except the Hound of Xoriat when run on elite (the only other raid that features enough random things that can make the raid go wrong to fail even with excellent execution). The beautiful thing about the design of Accursed Ascension is that there is no failsafe, easy-button tactic that removes all chance of something going wrong and ensures that completion is simply a matter of time and, for underperforming groups, resources. Many of the game's most fun raids suffer from this; there is not really a chance of failing the shroud, or vision of destruction (to say nothing of lower level raids) on any difficulty with a group appropriate for that difficulty. Only the hound and the abbot offer you the adrenaline-pumping opportunity to do your best and still fail, giving you factors beyond the control of the player.

Which is why no one has been excited in the shroud in ages, and why people get bored with what was intended to be an incredibly hectic raid in vod.