TWF endgame battle cleric (str based)

[Gol]

So, allow me to define battle cleric, since that will obviously be a point of contention.

1) Has good-to-high DPS
2) Has good-to-high DCs
3) Quickened/Empowered Mass Cures/Heal
4) Survivability

There are a couple other personal objectives I had here as well.
5) Evasion
6) Tier 3 PrEs (18 cleric levels)
7) 60+ standing AC

A tall order for sure, but I think I got it covered.
Lawful Neutral Dwarf Cleric 18 / Monk 2

Str 16 + 2 tome + 6 item + 2 rage spell = 26
Dex 15 + 3 tome + 6 item = 24
Con 14 + 2 tome + 2 enh + 6 item = 24
Int 8
Wis 16 + 3 tome + 3 enh + 3 shroud + 6 item + 5 levels = 36 (34 until mod 9)
Cha 6

Feats
1) Extend
3) Khopesh
6) TWF
9) Imp TWF
M1) Toughness
12) Quicken
M2) Power Attack
15) Empower Healing
18) Greater TWF

I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that Imp Crit is overrated (at least, that is, until the Stat damage nerf is refuted). Plus, Keen comes free on Mineral 2 gear for when DPS matters. Vorpal is just as good most of the time (exceptions are obvious), and so does Destruction.

An equally viable option if you prefer Elves:
Drop Khopesh, move Quicken to level 3, pick up Imp Crit at 12, use Rapiers. Totally viable and I'm not gonna knock it. It will even have better AC and reflex saves.

=== End of Build, just commentary below ===

So when working on this build, I really had 2 options at the end. Elf with Rapier and taking Imp Crit, or a Dwarf with Khopesh (due to lack of proficiencies) and no Imp Crit. The Elf is at a +1 AC advantage due to Dex, but the Dwarf has 40 HP advantage with higher Con and tier 3/4 Racial Toughness. No big deal for me, there.

It boiled down to 2 things for me:
1) Dwarven Spell Resistance. Native +2, +3 more via enhancements. That +5 saves vs spells, which is nothing to sneeze at.
2) Stalwart Defender. In the event that this build somehow qualifies for it, the Prestige Class it was based on (Dwarven Defender) provides a ton of AC and other defensive bonuses. Sure, this is just speculation on my part, but I wanted to start my noob now. I could be totally wrong.

Leveling is a breeze. Straight Cleric to 11 for full heals, Mithral Full Plate and Dwarven Armor Mastery for sky-high AC all the way. Pick up the Monk levels at 12 and 13 so you have evasion before heading into the Vale and you're set.

Here's my level 16 / capped planned gear list.

Mineral 2 khopeshes:
Holy/+1Wis/+2Wis Mineral 2 Khopesh
Holy/+1Con/+4AC Mineral 2 Khopesh

Head: Minos Legens
Neck: Lorrik's Necklace (+6 Wis, Wiz 6)
Goggles: Shroud Concordant (Imm/HP/Healing Lore)
Cloak: Shroud Mineral 2 (HP/SP/SP)
Trinket: Bloodstone / HoGF
Bracers: Tharne's Bracers (6 Armor, +6 Dex)
Armor: Icy Raiment
Gloves: +6 Strength
Belt: Belt of the Seven Ideals
Ring 1: GFL
Ring 2: +6 Con
Boots: Striding / FF

[Noctus]

If you include Rage-Spell in your Attribute-distribution, you should also include the -2 AC Malus in your AC breakdown.

[toughguyjoe]

5) Tier 3 PrEs

Tier 3 PrE's are, OBVIOUSLY, weaksauce.

Just take Murrderface:

11rngr/4fig/1mnk

[query]

No comment if it's good or bad as we all have different methods and requirements.

I went with a Lord of Blades WF battlecleric which changes things....but it's too early to see the high end results.

Tip: don't build as if you are guaranteed tomes or that people will always grind the shroud as there are those who find this too luck based or time comsuming or both.

[Gol]

Tip: don't build as if you are guaranteed tomes or that people will always grind the shroud as there are those who find this too luck based or time comsuming or both.

Point taken, but shroud gear and +2 tomes are just a matter of time. Most people who have the time to level a build posted on the forums also have the time to run shroud.

[Vorn]

I like this set up--am planning a very similar long sword using elf along the same lines--hoping for whirling steel strike--or rapiers as you suggested. I probably won't get him started until after the mod, however.

[kinar]

I'm curious how you plan to equip this character to make him actually useful.

You have 8 items already accounted for in the following:

+6 str item
+6 dex item
+6 dex item
+6 wis item
icy (robe)
chattering (ring)
+2 wis shroud (weapon) - this equals gimping him in the dps department unless it is only a situational thing
+4 insight shroud (weapon) - see above

my 14/2 build (not 18/2 like yours) is currently standing at 52AC with icy, glacier gloves, titan belt, leviks bracers all sitting in the bank becuase I need by robe spot for a +6 stat item, gloves for str, belt for con. I could swap out another 2 AC (chaosguards) to put on my leviks and wear my gloves but it isn't worht it to me currently.

[Dexxaan]

The Build is nice, but 3rd tier PrE´s (so far) are nice, but 2nd tier are the best Bang for the Buck IMO. Maybe Clerics PrE´s will prove this wrong.....

My 2 CP:

Gear Arrangement is definitely an issue. - Any idea on how you´d set it up?

My Human Cleric 11 Paladin 3 Fighter 2 "Battle Cleric" has to drop GFL Ring until I get thru my bad luck on the DTFP lottery Armor.

By comparison - sure 56 AC (no haste no recitation incl) but 32 WIS and 370 HP´s with Leviks Defender DR is quite nice.

I also noticed you are missing Empower - Maximize - Extend; and IMO those are truly a must for Mega Mass Healing and BB´s / Searing Light of course.

How many HP´s will you have and Gear arrangement would be nice info if you would.

Again Nice build.

[Gol]

I'm curious how you plan to equip this character to make him actually useful.

Holy/AcidBurst/+2Wis Mineral 2 Khopesh
Holy/AcidBurst/+4AC Mineral 2 Khopesh

Helm: Minos Legens
Cloak: Shroud Mineral 2 (Triple SP upgrades, +5 Prot, Heavy Fort)
Goggles: Shroud Existential Stalemate (HP, HP, Sup Healing Lore, +6 Wisdom)
Neck: +6 Con
Trinket: Kardin's
Armor: Icy Raiment
Belt: Belt of the Seven Ideals
Ring 1: GFL
Ring 2: Chattering
Gloves: +6 Strength
Bracers: Armor
Boots: Hotswap city: +6 Dex, Featherfall, Striding, etc.

HP math:
20 heroic
10 draconic
160 hit dice (20*d8)
140 Con
30 GFL
22 toughness
40 toughness enh
22 minos
25 shroud
= 469 HP at level 20

If you're willing to go superior healing lore or 100 SP (or grind another 20 shrouds to make another item), you can get the tier 3 HP upgrade on a shroud item for 489 unraged HP.

[gamblerjoe]

his build indicates that he will take extend at first lvl.

the thing im curious about is, wont u just have divine power on all the time? if so u dont need a str item.

great build. it definitely requires comprimise, but i personally have never come even close to that in my attempts to design a build and gear setup for a battle cleric.

[gamblerjoe]

what if they made a prestige line for battle clerics that had an ability similar to the spell Righteous Might?

[Ministry]

**** nice build.

I have a very similar build in progress atm, but I went WF, just for the extra immunities.

It cost me having to take a weapon proficiency, but it's nice being so immune.

After seeing your post, thinking about an elf.

[Angelus_dead]

A tall order for sure, but I think I got it covered.
Lawful Neutral Dwarf Cleric 18 / Monk 2

I notice that being a dwarf contributes to NONE of the 6 goals you listed. Halfling would contribute to your objectives the most, and elf is second.

Sure, dwarf has more hp, but that wasn't in your listed priorities.

[MrCow]

Sure, dwarf has more hp, but that wasn't in your listed priorities.

But it was in his commentary after the build of why he went for dwarf.

[Angelus_dead]

But it was in his commentary after the build of why he went for dwarf.

No, it wasn't. He just says it was "clear" he'd be elf or dwarf, without any justification why.

He does explain why he preferred dwarf over elf- but that doesn't change the fact that his result was working against his stated goals. Maybe he could've listed goals that more accurately reflected what he really wanted: hitpoints and saving throws were not on his list, but AC and DPS were.

If you want unarmored AC, halfling is the winner.
If you want non-axe non-rapier non-THF DPS, halfling is the winner.

[Gol]

the thing im curious about is, wont u just have divine power on all the time? if so u dont need a str item.

Hrm, hadn't thought of that, good point.

I notice that being a dwarf contributes to NONE of the 6 goals you listed. Halfling would contribute to your objectives the most, and elf is second.

Sure, dwarf has more hp, but that wasn't in your listed priorities.

Fair enough, but I'm thinking more big picture with race selection. A Dwarf will have more HP, better saves vs spells (aka when it matters), and more SP. No race provides any advantage of my top 4 goals except Dwarf. More SP = more heals, even if it is only 1. Better saves and more HP = higher survivability while dishing out the DPS. I need to be able to survive 2 natural 1s on saves vs DBF to the face. An Elf would just go splat into the pavement.

It's not until you get to goal #7 that Halflings or Elves have any benefit with better AC.

[Gol]

If you want unarmored AC, halfling is the winner.
If you want non-axe non-rapier non-THF DPS, halfling is the winner.

And as mobs gain fortification at higher levels as we've already seen with Harry and Sally (or things immune to SA), Halflings return to the bottom of the DPS totem pole.

And I've run the math on Elf w/ Rapier vs a Khopesh. It's a wash. However, I even specifically mentioned this option in the OP b/c some people may have a preference. And IMO, that's what Elf vs Dwarf boils down to. Preference. DPS is the same (Rapier has a minuscule edge against crittable mobs, Khopesh a substantial edge vs those not).

And the OP has been edited to put "Survivability" as a top-tier goal for the build if it makes you feel better about the reasoning for my choice of race.

[Angelus_dead]

A Dwarf will have more HP, better saves vs spells (aka when it matters)

Dwarf save vs DBF: 2 racial + 3 enhance = +5
Halfling save vs DBF: 1 racial + 3 enhance + 2 dex = +6

Dwarf save vs Dragon Breath: +0
Halfing save vs Dragon Breath: +6

No race provides any advantage of my top 3 goals except Dwarf.

Halflings and warforged do more khopesh DPS than a dwarf or elf.

I need to be able to survive 2 natural 1s on saves vs DBF to the face.

Quickened Heal, Quickened Fire Prot.

If you prefer high hitpoints to your listed objectives, that's fine... but in that case, it's inaccurate to have not listed it as a goal.

[Angelus_dead]

And as mobs gain fortification at higher levels as we've already seen with Harry and Sally (or things immune to SA), Halflings return to the bottom of the DPS totem pole.

You can't seriously expect the devs to be that stupid. They simply can't give Fortification to substantial numbers of boss mobs without nerfing both Frenzied Berserker, and the entire Rogue class.

[Gol]

Dwarf save vs DBF: 2 racial + 3 enhance = +5
Halfling save vs DBF: 1 racial + 3 enhance + 2 dex = +6

Dwarf save vs Dragon Breath: +0
Halfing save vs Dragon Breath: +6

Dwarf save vs all Reflex saves: -1 (+5 vs +6)
Dwarf save vs all Fort spells: +3 (+6 vs +3)
Dwarf save vs all Will spells: +2 (+5 vs +3)
Dwarf AP spent: 6
Halfling AP spent: 18

I'll take the Dwarf for 1/3 the cost. The # of uses of saves vs non-spells is less than situational. It's quite minimal (traps not withstanding).

You can't seriously expect the devs to be that stupid. They simply can't give Fortification to substantial numbers of boss mobs without nerfing both Frenzied Berserker, and the entire Rogue class.

You mean, you can't expect Turbine to create specific named mobs that are immune to situational DPS? Gimme a break. Look at the last 4 raids. Abbott: Immune. Harry: 50% fort. Hound: N/A. Sally: 50% fort. I fully expect the trend to continue.