Please make manyshot a stance

[Angelus_dead]

[*]Drop your rate of movement during the firing animation unless you have Shot on the Run

That would be pretty interesting. It approaches gameplay more like generic MMORPGs, where a tank taunts for aggro while an archer supplies DPS.

Whether or not DDO players want that kind of pheomena is a different question.

[*]Reduce the straight-back run speed (you know, the "over the shoulder" animation) - voila, you can't just kite and shoot forever...

You'd have to alternate shooting and running, meaning your kiting would be less DPS and require more mouse skill from the user.

[maddmatt70]

As long as Manyshot lasts, the Tempest gets ~76 attacks and the archer gets ~115. The archer doesn't get khopesh crits, but he doesn't have 50% str damage on half his attacks either.

Why don't you just say manyshot does more dps then ranger twf which these numbers you just posted supports?

[Angelus_dead]

Why don't you just say manyshot does more dps then ranger twf which these numbers you just posted supports?

That's an invalid question, because I DID just say that.

[moorewr]

That would be pretty interesting. It approaches gameplay more like generic MMORPGs, where a tank taunts for aggro while an archer supplies DPS.

Whether or not DDO players want that kind of pheomena is a different question.

True. As it stands it has an FPS feel -- which is probably no closer to the intent of the PnP rules than what I suggested. I was envisioning a full speed run which "decelerated" like casting on the run (another feat no one takes because you move so quickly by default) although not as slow as that. Say maybe 80% of normal movement.

You'd have to alternate shooting and running, meaning your kiting would be less DPS and require more mouse skill from the user.

Right - you'd run away to get some distance, then go backwards (at say half speed) until they'd closed the gap again. On the other hand when you turned to fire you'd have Manyshot turned on if you so chose.

[WestiesMA]

I Offer the Timer on Many Shot gets minus X seconds on cool down every Z level or something like that. For the sake of game balance.

As a player of a ranged ranger (yes really) I think that "constant" Manyshot would be a bit overpowered, but I totally agree with the lower the timer for higher levels!

[moorewr]

Hmmm.. If manyshot stayed on timer you could change the duration from 20 seconds to 14+BAB.

[Borror0]

The key insight is to see that the problem with ranged combat isn't a lack of DPS: the problem is poor cooperation between ranged and melee attacks. You could say that "Melee and ranged don't stack", although that's hyperbole: in reality, they stack some but give diminishing returns.

QFT

I do a whole lot more damage on my tempest barby (10brb/6rgr) with a pair of rapiers than I do with a bow on her.

In my experience, a Lightning II bow ranger versus any TWF Mineral II barbarian, for the duration of Manyshot, the ranger wins even if thee if not Lightning Strike proc.

In fact, it can be witnessed in Vision by seeing the ranger suddenly stealing the aggro.

[Steiner-Davion]

As long as Manyshot lasts, the Tempest gets ~76 attacks and the archer gets ~115. The archer doesn't get khopesh crits, but he doesn't have 50% str damage on half his attacks either.

But those ~76 attacks that the Tempest gets all have a chance of scoring a critical.

It seems to me, that as things stand right now (and I could be wrong), is that the only way an Archer has a comparable Rate of Fire/number of attacks/or DPS is to use Many Shot. But those attacks do not have nearly as many chances of landing a critical hit. Which is not fair either (And I'm not talking about crit ranges).

[Uska]

stance or at least halve the timer or maybe quarter it

[Angelus_dead]

But those ~76 attacks that the Tempest gets all have a chance of scoring a critical.

As was already explained in this thread, DDO does not prevent a manyshot user from scoring critical hits on his extra shots.

[Steiner-Davion]

As was already explained in this thread, DDO does not prevent a manyshot user from scoring critical hits on his extra shots.

Oops someone did mention that, but didn't someone say that that should be removed? Which is why I think I brought that up.

(Edit: reading the forums instead of paying attention in class).

[moorewr]

Oops someone did mention that, but didn't someone say that that should be removed? Which is why I think I brought that up.

(Edit: reading the forums instead of paying attention in class).

Ha ha. Yes, I think correcting Manyshot so crits and sneak attacks only apply to the first arrow are part of package.

(I've added my "Full prescription" into my OP since it addresses some of the points that have been made.)

[Angelus_dead]

I'll mention that I support various other improvements to ranged combat (in addition to the list I gave above)

4. In addition to their other effects, the TWF, ITWF, and GTWF feats each give stacking +5% thrown attack rate, but only if your offhand is empty.

5. New feat Crossbow Sniper (PHB2). You have +100% to sneak attack range with crossbows, and add 50% dex modifier to crossbow damage. With great crossbows the bonus is 75% dex, and with repeaters 25% dex. However, if you are stationary and have not attacked within 10 seconds, it is 100% dex with any kind of crossbow.

6. Sunder and Slicing Blow can be used ranged. Sap and Stunning Blow can be used with ranged bludgeon weapons (hammer only). I already mentioned ranged Trip, Hamstring, and Power Attack.

7. Bows/crossbows become a mainhand weapon, and you are allowed to equip bucklers at the same time (not light/heavy/tower shields). I won't specify if you get the shield AC bonus while shooting, but you do gain full benefits while blocking. That change will help prevent the Benny Hill aggro fiasco, by making it more reasonable for the archer to stop kiting and block so melee can catch up to the mobs

8. Rangers get the spells Arrow Mind, Hawkeye, Swift Haste, and Arrow Storm.
Arrow Mind: cancel AC penalty for holding a range weapon in melee
Hawkeye: self-buff for ranged accuracy
Swift Haste: self-buff for Haste, very short
Arrow Storm: attack each visible monster with 1 arrow per 4 caster levels (IPS does not apply)

[Borror0]

8. Rangers get the spells Arrow Mind, Hawkeye, Swift Haste, and Arrow Storm.
Arrow Mind: cancel AC penalty for holding a range weapon in melee
Hawkeye: self-buff for ranged accuracy
Swift Haste: self-buff for Haste, very short
Arrow Storm: attack each visible monster with 1 arrow per 4 caster levels (IPS does not apply)

If those spells were added, it might be a good idea to make of Bow Strength a normal feat that can be selected, rather than being ranger-only.

[Angelus_dead]

If those spells were added, it might be a good idea to make of Bow Strength a normal feat that can be selected, rather than being ranger-only.

Yeah probably- and also put it in the random loot tables, just like you can find a bow with Precise Shot on it today.

[Steiner-Davion]

Ha ha. Yes, I think correcting Manyshot so crits and sneak attacks only apply to the first arrow are part of package.

Ok see that now. To me that would be ok, as long as, and this is something I think we all agree on is that Ranged Attack Speed (ie number of attack per unit time) is greatly increased.

Remember in PnP each Round is 6 seconds. During that time you are not just swinging your sword X number of times, but looking for a way around your opponents defenses.

So in reality, Ranged attack "should" be faster, because no one is actively trying to block each and everyone one of your attacks, and it is easier to block a "slow" moving melee weapon than a swift flying arrow headed for you.

[gamblerjoe]

I have to respectfully disagree here, people tout manyshot as if it's HIGH DPS, it's not, not even close. A dual wielding tempest ranger with green steel mops the floor with an archer in manyshot, the ROF is just too **** slow.

/agree

i have both. my bow ranger has w/p, all the P5's, greensteel, and a gr. bane for every occasion (most with the correct flavor too.) 38 dex, str in the 20's, maxed FE damage, blah blah blah. still a gimp, only used to farm shroud ingred.

[Borror0]

still a gimp, only used to farm shroud ingred.

That's unimportant. Would it still be a gimp if it has perma-Manyshot? No, it wouldn't. It would out-DPS every melee.

[Baahb3]

8. Rangers get the spells Arrow Mind, Hawkeye, Swift Haste, and Arrow Storm.
Arrow Mind: cancel AC penalty for holding a range weapon in melee
Hawkeye: self-buff for ranged accuracy
Swift Haste: self-buff for Haste, very short
Arrow Storm: attack each visible monster with 1 arrow per 4 caster levels (IPS does not apply)

Arrow Mind or add a Close Combat Shot feat accomplishing the same thing

Add spell:
Fell the Greatest Foe: Add 1d6 damage on successful attack per size category of enemy above medium. (ex. +1d6 for large, +2d6 huge...to +4d6 colossal)

[The10man]

Non-ranger manyshotters would take offense at this implementation. Make the cooldown based on BAB, not on ranger levels and I'd be ok with this one.

This would actually make it fall within the status quo of the game though. Higher arcanes and clerics etc get higher/more spells because they trained more in that skillset. So higher trained RANGErs should get better ranging. I think one of the best things they could do for the subset of us who want to play (whether for fun or roleplay reasons) a ranged character is to lower the cooldown timer or raise the duration. (As an avid, my wife says rabid, archer/bowhunter in RL I want an archer in game.) Please lower the timer or raise the duration my 15 ranger 1 rogue and I would love you for it.