How to add Spell Reserve Feats to DDO

[Laith]

No, there are plenty of shrines in quests. Use your mana wisely and you will not have a problem with your mana. The only 2 places I can think where you run out of mana is the Shroud and VoD. Casters really don't need to do a lot in there anyway. It's more about tanks in there. Other than that, I can not think of anyplace where casters need more mana.

Give me an example of where you need more mana as a caster.

you already gave two. the reason "casters really don't need to do alot in there" is because the quest basically only requires sustained DPS, which casters can't provide in a meaningful way due to lack of SP (or lack of sustained dps spells beyond wall of fire, take your pick).

It is this same reason that bringing more than 1 or 2 casters into those quests is pointless.

Any other quest where the boss fight is substantially harder than the rest of the quest provides a situation where a caster might be forced to sit on the side lines for a large portion of a quest, because they need their SP later.

[Ustice]

I suppose it's unfair for me to presume what's fun and what's not for someone.

Let me just put it this way.

Allowing casters to cause minor damage at a rate under what most classes in the game can produce damage would not seriously affect balance. And would make the game more fun for some people. There are circumstances when casters feel they would like to contribute more.

Why do most end game quest LFMs ask for few arcane spellcaters? Because their contribution, past a few essential buffs and crowd controls, is very much less impactful on average.

Agreed. In the Shroud, the sorcs and wizzies RARELY run out of mana, but they do a lot of sitting around just in case. It would be nice if they could throw in some pings like this.

[eyepuppy]

I suppose it's unfair for me to presume what's fun and what's not for someone.

Let me just put it this way.

Allowing casters to cause minor damage at a rate under what most classes in the game can produce damage would not seriously affect balance. And would make the game more fun for some people. There are circumstances when casters feel they would like to contribute more.

Why do most end game quest LFMs ask for few arcane spellcaters? Because their contribution, past a few essential buffs and crowd controls, is very much less impactful on average.

The end game quests can still be soloed by casters. Normally people want to run through and kill every last guy. This is not needed and is why casters run out of spell points. Killing needless mobs that can be easily skipped.

[Angelus_dead]

No, there are plenty of shrines in quests. Use your mana wisely and you will not have a problem with your mana. The only 2 places I can think where you run out of mana is the Shroud and VoD. Casters really don't need to do a lot in there anyway.

Circular reasoning.

The reason casters don't run out of mana is because they "don't do a lot in there anyway", which is because if they try to do something they waste spellpoints that can be more helpful later.

You are looking at the situation of casters who follow along casting occasional Haste/Displace/Fog/Web/Fear/Stone as if it were a good thing that most of their time is spent going "Shall I cast a spell now? Nah I might need mana later. Shall I cast a spell now?"

Currently, "mana management" means deciding if it's worth it to spend spellpoints right now, and if not you do nothing. Under my proposal, you'd still to repeatedly consider if it would be useful to spend mana on the current opponent; but if the answer is no, then you have something you can do besides stand there.

Think about VOD: You're a sorc casting Displace, Web, and Fog. You get a crazy idea to help DPS Suulomades, so you put some Polar Rays into him once in a while. Then the battle continues and Firebat Detonators arrive, and maybe the other players screw up so there's trouble. You need to cast more spells to defeat these bats... too bad you used it on Polar Ray. Now, because you tried to participate and help DPS a little, you're faced with either Mnemonic Potions, or shouldering blame for failing the raid.

[Chaos000]

Fiery Burst (evocation)
If you have a fire spell of level 2 or higher available and a 20% reserve of your sp pool, you can detonate a small fireball on an enemy, inflicting 1d6 fire damage to nearby opponents (Reflex half). [20% = 1d6]

Winter's Blast (evocation)
If you have a cold spell of level 2 or higher available and a 20% reserve of your sp pool, you can release a small cone of cold, inflicting 1d4 cold damage per spell level to opponents (Reflex half). [20% = 1d4, 30% = 2d4 (min lvl 5), 40% = 3d4 (min lvl 7), 50% = 4d4 (min lvl 9), 60% = 5d4 (min lvl 11), 70% = 6d4 (min lvl 13), 80% = 7d4 (min lvl 15), 90% = 9d4 (min lvl 17)]

Storm Bolt (evocation)
If you have a lightning spell of level 3 or higher available and a 30% reserve of your sp pool, you can cast a line of electricity, inflicting 1d6 lightning damage per spell level to opponents struck (Reflex half). [30% = 3d6, 40% = 4d6 (min lvl 7), 50% = 5d6 (min lvl 9), 60% = 6d6 (min lvl 11), 70% = 7d6 (min lvl 13), 80% = 8d6 (min lvl 15), 90% = 9d6 (min lvl 17)]

Acidic Splatter (conjuration)
If you have an acid spell of level 2 or higher available and a 20% reserve of your sp pool, you can hurl a glob of acid at an enemy. The (effect = thrown ranged dart w attack roll) attack does 1d6 acid damage per spell level, if the attack roll is successful. [20% = 2d6, 30% = 3d6 (min lvl 5), 40% = 4d6 (min lvl 7), 50% = 5d6 (min lvl 9), 60% = 6d6 (min lvl 11), 70% = 7d6 (min lvl 13), 80% = 8d6 (min lvl 15), 90% = 9d6 (min lvl 17)]

Invisible Needle (evocation)
If you have a force spell of level 3 or higher available and a 30% reserve of your sp, you can launch a spike of energy at an enemy. The (effect = thrown ranged dart w attack roll) attack does 1d4 force damage per spell level, if an attack roll is successful. [30% = 3d6, 40% = 4d6 (min lvl 7), 50% = 5d6 (min lvl 9), 60% = 6d6 (min lvl 11), 70% = 7d6 (min lvl 13), 80% = 8d6 (min lvl 15), 90% = 9d6 (min lvl 17)]

Touch of Healing (conjuration)
If you have a Conjuration(healing) spell of level 2 or higher available and a 20% reserve of your sp, you can cure an ally for 3 hp per spell level. The effect is very short range, and only works on characters at under 50% hp. [20% = 6 hp, 30% = 9 hp (min lvl 5), 40% = 12 hp (min lvl 7), 50% = 15 hp (min lvl 9), 60% = 18 hp (min lvl 11), 70% = 21 hp (min lvl 13), 80% = 24 hp (min lvl 15), 90% = 27 hp (min lvl 17)]

Ray of Morbidity (necromancy)
If you have a necromancy spell of level 5 or higher available and a 50% reserve of your sp, you can strike a target with a ray of deadly energy, inflicting 1d2 strength and constitution damage. On a successful fort save, she instead takes a 1d2 penalty to str and con for 30 sec (which doesn't stack with Ray of Enfeeblement).

Mystic Backlash (abjuration)
If you have an abjuration spell of level 5 or higher available and a 50% reserve of your sp, you can disrupt a creature's magical power into damaging energy. A single target takes 1d10 damage per spell level (Will negates). Creatures unable to cast spells are immune to this effect. [50% = 5d10, 60% = 6d10(min lvl 11), 70% = 7d10(min lvl13), 80% = 8d10 (min lvl 15), 90% =9d10 (min lvl 17)]

[Ustice]

This is sort of where the idea of the At Will Powers in 4th Ed comes from. It sucks to be that 1st level caster with 2 shots of a spell and then you are just a crappy fighter with low hitpoints. Hope you brought a crossbow. It just isn't very wizard-like.

I think that the way to balance it out is instead of requiring a 1 SP cost each time, you forfeit a certain number of SP. So say for Fiery Burst, you now have 70 SP less, but you can use this ability that you can use at will. Sounds like a fair trade. If you want more of them, you forfeit more SP, but it makes you more versatile.

If this were combined with a bit of a drop in HP in Mobs, I think that it would make for a nice balance, and a much more fun experience for casters.

This cost would also make it more viable for Sorcerers than Wizards, which I think is a good thing, since it plays off their more chaotic and spontaneous nature.

[eyepuppy]

Circular reasoning.

The reason casters don't run out of mana is because they "don't do a lot in there anyway", which is because if they try to do something they waste spellpoints that can be more helpful later.

You are looking at the situation of casters who follow along casting occasional Haste/Displace/Fog/Web/Fear/Stone as if it were a good thing that most of their time is spent going "Shall I cast a spell now? Nah I might need mana later. Shall I cast a spell now?"

Currently, "mana management" means deciding if it's worth it to spend spellpoints right now, and if not you do nothing. Under my proposal, you'd still to repeatedly consider if it would be useful to spend mana on the current opponent; but if the answer is no, then you have something you can do besides stand there.

Think about VOD: You're a sorc casting Displace, Web, and Fog. You get a crazy idea to help DPS Suulomades, so you put some Polar Rays into him once in a while. Then the battle continues and Firebat Detonators arrive, and maybe the other players screw up so there's trouble. You need to cast more spells to defeat these bats... too bad you used it on Polar Ray. Now, because you tried to participate and help DPS a little, you're faced with either Mnemonic Potions, or shouldering blame for failing the raid.

What spells will you cast out of your proposed list would actually do damage to sulu or the pit fiend? He has high resistance AND evasion with high reflex saves. You're only looking about doing an extra point or two of damage. Is that worth all the coding the devs have to go through for something as trivia as this? So when the devils come down, are you going to continue DPS on sulu with your lightning ray that will do next nothing because he will save?

My point is that when you will need these enhancements, they won't come in handy.

[Deathseeker]

What Im not following (and I mean that sincerely not as an opening to a backhanded attack) is how this is wildly different on gameplay than wands? If wands were a little more potent, like say for instance increasing the wand effectiveness enhancements a little more, don't they accomplish the same thing?

Even today, I run around with a force missle wand in my hand and fire it off when I'm waiting for the big nuclear bomb fight. They serve the "im bored not contributing purpose" but I think if you just pumped them up a little more they'd be more popular.

How is this new concept effectively different?

[Angelus_dead]

What Im not following (and I mean that sincerely not as an opening to a backhanded attack) is how this is wildly different on gameplay than wands? If wands were a little more potent, like say for instance increasing the wand effectiveness enhancements a little more, don't they accomplish the same thing?

Wands do approach solving the same problem, but fail due to the weight of accumulated drawbacks. It is true that improving wands is another viable path to a solution, but currently offensive wands have:
1. Cost in plat for shooting it (instead of selling it)
2. Cost of inventory space to carry them
3. Cost of management to get more when they run out
4. Low attack rate
5. A DC below what should be the minimum by the D&D rules.
6. No benefit from Combustion, Element Mastery, Fire Lore, intelligence, etc. The numerous factors a caster can improve to raise his spell DPS don't apply to wands, which go off a separate Wand Mastery enhancement.
and most importantly
7. Cost of time spent switching back and forth from the wand to your regular spellcasting handheld items

Basically, a person who uses a wand is reducing his ability to quickly react to an emergency spellcasting need, because he has swapped out his good mainhand item.

With all that put together, using a wand for a tiny bit more DPS is rarely worth the time spent clicking the icons.

[Angelus_dead]

What spells will you cast out of your proposed list would actually do damage to sulu or the pit fiend? He has high resistance AND evasion with high reflex saves.

They don't normally have evasion, but you are correct that these effects would be fairly weak against those specific bosses. I did err on the side of caution, and the DPS could perhaps do with a boost (for one thing, the force effect would be stronger if there was a higher-level force spell option). The specific numbers in the suggestion are less important than the concept in general.

Assuming a non-evasion devil boss who passes the save 95% of the time, Shock Bolt would add about 20% of the DPS of an S&B warrior, or 10% of a TWF character. If you ask a warrior player if 10-20% more personal DPS would help him fight devil bosses, I think he'd say yes.

So when the devils come down, are you going to continue DPS on sulu with your lightning ray that will do next nothing because he will save?

Obviously when there are other monsters, you'll have something else to do.

My point is that when you will need these enhancements, they won't come in handy.

There are many other DPS battles in DDO, and currently mages fall into one of two categories with very little in between: either I know I don't need mana later, so I obliterate the mob easily, or I know I won't have enough mana to kill him, so I do almost nothing after the buffs/debuffs are up.

[Eladrin]

We agree that at-will powers are valuable additions to the casting classes.

In Module 9, eternal wands have been given some improvements - faster use times, and their charges recharge over time.

When the Prestige Enhancements come out for the Cleric, Sorcerer, and Wizard, I expect many of them to have at-will powers. A Sorcerer Fire Savant III, for example, will likely have the ability to produce Burning Hands, Scorching Ray, and Fireball effects at-will. (These will likely be on a slightly longer cooldown than if they had cast the actual spells, but will be free.) The Wizard Archmage is currently planned to be able to reduce their spell point maximum to purchase a variety of low level spells as spell-like abilities. Pale Masters will have their own necromatic twist, and Wild Mages... Well, they'll do something when they push that "Nahal's" button.

(These are very early plans. Details are subject to change.)

Edit:
I do like the idea of adding more "lesser" variants of spells.

[frugal_gourmet]

Sweet.

[Wizzly_Bear]

We agree that at-will powers are valuable additions to the casting classes.

In Module 9, eternal wands have been given some improvements - faster use times, and their charges recharge over time.

When the Prestige Enhancements come out for the Cleric, Sorcerer, and Wizard, I expect many of them to have at-will powers. A Sorcerer Fire Savant III, for example, will likely have the ability to produce Burning Hands, Scorching Ray, and Fireball effects at-will. (These will likely be on a slightly longer cooldown than if they had cast the actual spells, but will be free.) The Wizard Archmage is currently planned to be able to reduce their spell point maximum to purchase a variety of low level spells as spell-like abilities. Pale Masters will have their own necromatic twist, and Wild Mages... Well, they'll do something when they push that "Nahal's" button.

(These are very early plans. Details are subject to change.)

Edit:
I do like the idea of adding more "lesser" variants of spells.

these would have been nice 2-3 mods ago. what good is a half power fireball when a regular fully loaded fireball is nigh worthless now?

[Borror0]

Eladrin, I really enjoy you commenting on suggestions. Thank you.

[Angelus_dead]

In Module 9, eternal wands have been given some improvements - faster use times, and their charges recharge over time.

Have you considered fixing the DC of all wands and clickies to (at least) follow the D&D rules? A wand should have a DC of 10+spell_level*1.5, not 10+spell_level as they do in DDO. That means my Meteor Swarm clicky is giving the monster a free +4 on saving throws.

In addition, you might think about some other charged items that look bigger than wands, and which use the D&D rule for staff DC: the wielder's intelligence or charisma mod replaces the item's own DC mod if it is better.

When the Prestige Enhancements come out for the Cleric, Sorcerer, and Wizard, I expect many of them to have at-will powers. A Sorcerer Fire Savant III, for example, will likely have the ability to produce Burning Hands, Scorching Ray, and Fireball effects at-will.

I had been going to suggest exactly that, but then decided it should be something open even to casters who couldn't or didn't take a specialty.

Edit:
I do like the idea of adding more "lesser" variants of spells.

Don't forget greater versions. At least check Spell Compendium for some bigger relatives of Magic Missile... or just let wizards learn that spell the Warforged Titan uses...

[frugal_gourmet]

these would have been nice 2-3 mods ago. what good is a half power fireball when a regular fully loaded fireball is nigh worthless now?

Well, the problem is that it is a mana drain. If it's at will, you can dps whenever you've got nothing else on the agenda.

[Borror0]

what good is a half power fireball when a regular fully loaded fireball is nigh worthless now?

These abilities are only ideas and have not been playtested.

It's very likely one of those three scenarios will happen:

1. These abilities will prove out stronger than they sound on paper and will be implemented as is.
2. These abilities are weaker and will be improved.
3. These at-will abilities are not enough to balance the high HP of end game monsters and a fix will be done to address that problem.

[Ustice]

Thanks for the post Eladrin. It's great to get your opinion on ideas submitted here. Even if you don't give the little tid-bits of previews (which we like as well), it's great to get your thoughts on game design ideas, since well you do it for a living.

Great for the game, and for the community. You rock!

[Deathseeker]

We agree that at-will powers are valuable additions to the casting classes.

In Module 9, eternal wands have been given some improvements - faster use times, and their charges recharge over time.

When the Prestige Enhancements come out for the Cleric, Sorcerer, and Wizard, I expect many of them to have at-will powers. A Sorcerer Fire Savant III, for example, will likely have the ability to produce Burning Hands, Scorching Ray, and Fireball effects at-will. (These will likely be on a slightly longer cooldown than if they had cast the actual spells, but will be free.) The Wizard Archmage is currently planned to be able to reduce their spell point maximum to purchase a variety of low level spells as spell-like abilities. Pale Masters will have their own necromatic twist, and Wild Mages... Well, they'll do something when they push that "Nahal's" button.

(These are very early plans. Details are subject to change.)

Edit:
I do like the idea of adding more "lesser" variants of spells.

Very interesting. Will be interesting to see how these are balanced such that they are fun (thus not totally useless during DPS battles) but also not balance tipping either. There's definitely a sweet spot, but I bet it will be hard to figure out exactly where that spot is.

Great thread A_D, and much thanks to Eladrin for turning this into something more that just a hope.

Now the only question is will this be included in Patch 3 or mod 9? Just kidding...

[sephiroth1084]

No, there are plenty of shrines in quests. Use your mana wisely and you will not have a problem with your mana. The only 2 places I can think where you run out of mana is the Shroud and VoD. Casters really don't need to do a lot in there anyway. It's more about tanks in there. Other than that, I can not think of anyplace where casters need more mana.

Give me an example of where you need more mana as a caster.

In A Vision of Destruction there are no shrines, the quest is long, and there is almost nothing to do, since a caster needs to be spending their SP on Web and Fog, and maybe Reconstructs. In Shroud part 4, mana has to be reserved for Web, fogs, Finger of Death and PK. Some can be used for DPS or debuffing, but neither are terribly effective, and if you spend a little too much or if the fight goes a round longer than you planned, your group can be in a lot of trouble if you are out of SP.

While I love reserve feats in PnP, I don't know if they're all a good idea in DDO. Tough of Healing, for one, would really slow things down between fights I suspect. Rather than healing up quickly with big spells or wands and moving on, clerics would heal individual targets up to 50% and then start in on other healing. Besides, it has little application for things like the Shroud and VoD, since you don't have enough downtime for that kind of healing. So, it would be useless in [some] quests where mana conservation is at a premium, and slows down the rest.

Also, part of the way DDO quests are balanced is by assessing how much a caster can do from one shrine to the next. If they hold back here, then they have more at the end, but the group will likely have a more difficult time getting there. While the reserve feats make this situation more fun for the caster, it will mean that casters will have a lot more SP at the big moments, and will be more likely to nova in those situations.

We don't have an active DM who can adjust quests as we ourselves adjust, and this would likely alter how many quests are played and the inherent difficulty, or ease, those quests present.