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  1. #1
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    Default How to add Spell Reserve Feats to DDO

    The following suggestion would improve the game, but is of low priority compared to other potential changes. Casters in D&D and DDO have the problem that their spells per day are pretty limited, even if they're only using weak spells. In D&D this is solved with "Reserve Feats" from Complete Mage, and it's possible to add something similar to DDO as well; I'll call them "Spell Reserve" abilities, to emphasize that they relate to spellcasting and that they're not actually feats.

    Benefits
    Spell-reserve abilities would improve verisimilitude, engagement, and balance.
    1. Verisimilitude: because a supposedly powerful sorcerer just doesn't feel convincing if he can't shoot off a little magic because he might need a big spell later in the day. That's like a kung-fu master who's afraid to walk around in case he needs his feet for kickboxing later.

    2. Engagement: It's fun to be engaged with a game, which means you're doing something. DDO values engagement more highly than some other games that include /follow /assist /autoattack. To wait around because you can't do anything helpful is not engagement, and to stand around watching for a slight chance to be helpful is weak engagement. Too often when there's a DPS (or con damage) beatdown, spellcasters have no good way to contribute: casting a spell wastes points that might be needed later, and attacking with a wand or weapon has little effect, and interferes with your items so that in the event you do have to cast a spell in reaction to a sudden emergency, you won't do it as well.

    Frequently in a big raid you'll see casters fidgeting watching the team fight some large devil, and not doing anything to help so they can save mana for gnolls or bats later. Only if they have nearly perfect prediction of what will happen next are they liberated to throw in some DPS.

    3. Balance: Spellcasters have the best hp DPS, especially if the monsters group up, but they have no way to sustain it over time. Warrior classes may lose DPS as time goes on and they lose boosts and rages, but that's nothing like how it works for a mage. Quest designers' ability to build winnable challenges is hampered because the kinds of DPS classes bring such divergent capabilities. If casters had a way to inflict long-term DPS without expending real mana, their damage profile would come closer to other characters. (And then if you went ahead and nerfed Mnemonic Potions with a cooldown timer to drink another, their output would be even more manageable)


    Implementation Details
    Because Spell Reserve abilities add little peak-power to the class, they're not worth spending feats. Instead, they are presented below as enhancements. Each is an active enhancement that casts a spell-like effect when triggered. For it to work, you must be able to cast a certain kind of spell, which means both having it on your currently-prepared list, and having enough spellpoints for a spell of that level. The power of the Spell Reserve ability is keyed off of that basis spell; DC is computed as a spell of that level, and damage dice are also scaled by spell level. Spell Reserve abilities have a school (used to apply Spell Focus DC benefits) and an energy type which applies to bonuses such as spell-damage amplification and spell crits. Some abilities make an attack roll: the AB is your caster level + casting ability mod + basis spell level + school focus bonus.

    No metamagic can apply to Spell Reserve abilities. They are treated as 0 level for the purpose of concentration checks, and don't suffer ASF. The casting time is the usual (like a wizard's Cone of Cold), the cooldown is 2 seconds, and neither is altered by your casting class. Note that these enhancements are intentionally more-restricted to class than the D&D feats (if they were open to more DDO classes, they might need a higher cost for them).

    Important option: It would be fine to add a cost of 1 sp per use of Spell Reserve ability. That would have little impact on gameplay, but might placate users who dislike the idea of a caster having "infinite" spells.


    Fiery Burst (evocation)
    1 AP, req wiz3 or sor4
    If you have a fire spell of level 2 or higher available, you can detonate a small fireball on an enemy, inflicting 1d6 fire damage per spell level to nearby opponents (Reflex half).

    Winter's Blast (evocation)
    1 AP, req wiz3 or sor4
    If you have a cold spell of level 2 or higher available, you can release a small cone of cold, inflicting 1d4 cold damage per spell level to opponents (Reflex half).
    (Yes, there are no cold spells at level 2 currently)

    Storm Bolt (evocation)
    1 AP, req wiz5 or sor6
    If you have a lightning spell of level 3 or higher available, you can cast a line of electricity, inflicting 1d6 lightning damage per spell level to opponents struck (Reflex half).

    Acidic Splatter (conjuration)
    1 AP, req wiz3 or sor4
    If you have an acid spell of level 2 or higher available, you can hurl a glob of acid at an enemy. The attack does 1d6 acid damage per spell level, if an attack roll is successful.

    Invisible Needle (evocation)
    1 AP, req wiz5 or sor6
    If you have a force spell of level 3 or higher available, you can launch a spike of energy at an enemy. The attack does 1d4 force damage per spell level, if an attack roll is successful.

    Touch of Healing (conjuration)
    1 AP, req cle2, dru3, brd4, or pal8.
    If you have a Conjuration(healing) spell of level 2 or higher available, you can cure an ally for 3 hp per spell level. The effect is very short range, and only works on characters at under 50% hp.

    Ray of Morbidity (necromancy)
    1 AP, req wiz9 or sor10.
    If you have a necromancy spell of level 5 or higher available, you can strike a target with a ray of deadly energy, inflicting 1d2 strength and constitution damage. On a successful fort save, she instead takes a 1d2 penalty to str and con for 30 sec (which doesn't stack with Ray of Enfeeblement).
    (Note that Ray of Morbidity should be reconsidered if wounding or puncturing is nerfed)

    Mystic Backlash (abjuration)
    1 AP, req wiz9 or sor10
    If you have an abjuration spell of level 5 or higher available, you can disrupt a creature's magical power into damaging energy. A single target takes 1d10 damage per spell level (Will negates). Creatures unable to cast spells are immune to this effect.

  2. #2
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    Hadn't thought of that angle, but it's not bad.

    If you run out of fireballs, would your fiery burst do 3d6 damage since fireball is a level 3 spell?

    I do like the idea of a few of these spells requiring ranged attacks, since dex for casters seems much less important in the online version.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by frugal_gourmet View Post
    If you run out of fireballs, would your fiery burst do 3d6 damage since fireball is a level 3 spell?
    The damage of the reserve ability is based on the highest level of matching spell you can still cast. A wizard with DBF, Fireball, Scorching Ray, and Burning Hands would normally have an 8d6 Fiery Burst. (That's less than the 16d6 of DBF or 10d6 of Fireball, and those spells additionally have a 2.5 multiplier from Maximize and Empower. The "real" spells probably also have larger range and area).

    If he becomes unable to cast DBF (either because his sp drops below 45 or his intelligence below 18), then it would be powered by Fireball instead, and only do 3d6. Dropping to 17 sp would reduce it to 2d6 (Scorch), and 1d6 at 12 sp (BH). If he had 9 sp he couldn't use Fiery Burst at all, because he can't even cast Burning Hands (unless a spellsinger bard gives him a 10% mana efficiency buff)

    Note that Spell Reserve abilities add an additional reason to prepare some spells: maybe you don't plan to waste spellpoints on Chain Lightning, but you prepare it anyway so that your Storm Bolt can do 6d6 (instead of the 3d6 it would do from Lighting Bolt). The ability isn't as cheap as simply spending 1 AP, because it also requires that spell slot.
    Last edited by Angelus_dead; 01-15-2009 at 12:28 PM.

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    Good idea.

    I have few issues with it, other than: more clickable stuff on my screen that I have to remember.

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    Minor problem, what dice do you use?

    DDO, as you know, uses loaded dices and the dices get less loaded as the spell level climbs. DBF is 14+2 and Fireball is 1d3+3, for example.
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    Uber Completionist Lithic's Avatar
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    I like it. As long a metamagics do not affect this stuff of course. The cooldown would also need to be carefully chosen to allow some DPS, though not too much spamarama. A global 6second cooldown for all of these enhancements when one is used maybe (Kind of like you use rogue skill boost, then you cant use human skill boost until they both cooldown).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borror0 View Post
    Minor problem, what dice do you use?
    Not too important; I'd treat them all as level "zero" spells for things like that. (And also for concentration checks and Potency items)

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    I like it a lot, touch of healing is a little iffy, but it's nbd.
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  9. #9
    Community Member eyepuppy's Avatar
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    So give an already powerful class more power? This is as bad of an idea as giving rangers more attack speed with tempest.

    Granted the enhancements don't do much, but you give an unlimited supply of spells for them to cast. I'm already mad that casters have so many spell points. In PnP, casters were there to take out the big guys. They didn't have the ability to kill everything they came across. You want to give more power to these classes? Give me one good reason why casters should have more spells?

    Casters need to learn mana management. I know this will hit most casters where it counts, but tanks can kill things! If you let the tanks take care of the trash mobs, the casters will have more mana to kill the things that count (IE, casters, clerics, named mobs, etc).

    In short, casters are not the problem, it's the people who play casters that's the problem. We don't need to EVER give casters more power.
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  10. #10
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    I think the Spell Reserve requirement should be based on a % of sp still left in your pool.

    lvl 2 req. 20% sp
    lvl 3 req. 30% sp
    lvl 4 req. 40% sp
    lvl 5 req. 50% sp

    and scale the spell reserved per every 5-10% above the minimun requirement.

    and so long as that amount remains you have the use of your reserve spell infinitely without cost. so long as there's a decent cooldown (60 sec?) I don't see how that would make it broken
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyepuppy View Post
    In short, casters are not the problem, it's the people who play casters that's the problem. We don't need to EVER give casters more power.
    Disagree. Playing a caster isn't especially fun in some of the end game content. This would make it more fun without really overshadowing any other class. I have little problem with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lithic View Post
    I like it. As long a metamagics do not affect this stuff of course. The cooldown would also need to be carefully chosen to allow some DPS, though not too much spamarama.
    In the suggestion, they all have a 2 second cooldown (regardless of if you're a wizard or sorc). That means a person using Fiery Burst on a single monster would do 8d6 (from DBF's level) * 1.9 (Elemental Mastery + Superior Potency) = 76 damage on a failed save. (Empower and Maximize do nothing). That's every 2 seconds, so he has 76/2 = 38 DPS. And the DPS is even lower if the monster passes any reflex saves (which have a DC of about 10 base + 8 level + 10 int + 1 focus = 29). The DPS would go up if the monster takes extra fire damage, or if there is another monster within the blast radius.

    Compare that against a warrior: a buffed S&B warrior has about 85 DPS, or a TWF has 170 DPS. The Spell Reserve ability doesn't threaten their role very much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eyepuppy View Post
    So give an already powerful class more power?
    Wrong. Wizards and sorcerers are not powerful in those situations based on sustained DPS or con damage.

    In other situations, it would usually be a waste of time for them to bother with such piddly effects.

  14. #14
    Community Member eyepuppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frugal_gourmet View Post
    Disagree. Playing a caster isn't especially fun in some of the end game content. This would make it more fun without really overshadowing any other class. I have little problem with it.
    What's not so fun about casters end game? If by no fun you mean that you can't finger everything then you are right on! I play my caster end game a lot. He's a lot of fun still. You just can't use the old gianthold tactics. One spell casters underestimate is slow. Slow is an AOE spell and rocks out in the vale. with mass protection out, drop protection from elements and pick up slow. You'll love it man.
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  15. #15
    Community Member eyepuppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus_dead View Post
    Wrong. Wizards and sorcerers are not powerful in those situations based on sustained DPS or con damage.

    In other situations, it would usually be a waste of time for them to bother with such piddly effects.
    Wrong. Casters have an unlimited spell point pool. If you can't manage sustained DPS, then learn mana management.
    Rule number one, never follow Wobert. Rule number two, never listen to Wobert.


  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by valorik View Post
    I like it a lot, touch of healing is a little iffy, but it's nbd.
    Touch of Healing would be highly attractive to "casual" or plat-poor players who can't afford wands and such. At level 10 you'd be able to cure someone for 3 * 5 level * 1.6 amp = 24 points each. It would only work very close to him (so its hard to use in battle), and it won't bring him over 50% (so you need another source of healing too). At level 15 a cleric could Touch for 45 hp, or spend mana and give a Heal for 268 hp (plus debuff repair).... and since you'll wanna bring him over 50% anyhow...

    This would help balance low/mid level healing between the new players who don't have wands, and the old players who can pick up a wand from their mailbox after every other quest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eyepuppy View Post
    Wrong. Casters have an unlimited spell point pool. If you can't manage sustained DPS, then learn mana management.
    The only way their spellpoints can be considered "unlimited" is in ways that are not fun, as has already been explained. Unless you think Mnemonic Guzzling is "fun".

    Just because someone can learn to work around an obstacle doesn't mean it's entertaining for him to do so. Sometimes, the most effective way for a caster to contribute to a DPS/wounding fight is to throw Haste+Fog, and then sit back and wait to be useful later. These proposals would allow him to join in what the other guys are doing.
    Last edited by Angelus_dead; 01-15-2009 at 01:14 PM.

  18. #18
    Community Member eyepuppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus_dead View Post
    The only way their spellpoints can be considered "unlimited" is in ways that are not fun, as has already been explained.

    Unless you think Mnemonic Guzzling is "fun".
    No, there are plenty of shrines in quests. Use your mana wisely and you will not have a problem with your mana. The only 2 places I can think where you run out of mana is the Shroud and VoD. Casters really don't need to do a lot in there anyway. It's more about tanks in there. Other than that, I can not think of anyplace where casters need more mana.

    Give me an example of where you need more mana as a caster.
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  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus_dead View Post
    Touch of Healing would be highly attractive to "casual" or plat-poor players who can't afford wands and such.
    You mean like 95% of clerics? I can afford wands/scrolls, but that is WHY I am poor. I like the concept. It's annoying when I am out of mana how utterly useless I am.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyepuppy View Post
    What's not so fun about casters end game? If by no fun you mean that you can't finger everything then you are right on! I play my caster end game a lot. He's a lot of fun still. You just can't use the old gianthold tactics. One spell casters underestimate is slow. Slow is an AOE spell and rocks out in the vale. with mass protection out, drop protection from elements and pick up slow. You'll love it man.
    I suppose it's unfair for me to presume what's fun and what's not for someone.

    Let me just put it this way.

    Allowing casters to cause minor damage at a rate under what most classes in the game can produce damage would not seriously affect balance. And would make the game more fun for some people. There are circumstances when casters feel they would like to contribute more.

    Why do most end game quest LFMs ask for few arcane spellcaters? Because their contribution, past a few essential buffs and crowd controls, is very much less impactful on average.

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