Obsolete Loot

[gfunk]

Since this game started, alot of really nice items have been introduced... but they are slowly disappearing from the game (effectively anyways). People used to put some concerted effort to find these items, and now they are largely obsolete. Some examples:

Sword of Shadows (used to be one of the best 2 handers, now second rate at cap), Bereavement, tome of untold legends weapons (except skiver and deathnip which people still try and get), retribution, dragonscale armor (blue are still sought after), sheild of legends turn ins, centurion armor, insulated armor, maralith chain.

All of these used to be used at end-game.. but not anymore. It used to take alot of runs to get things things. Today, doing the required number of runs to get these things would put a person close to, or at cap (which entirely defeats the point). These items have some of the best/most unique graphics in the game, and it's a shame we dont see them around anymore.

I suggest increasing the drop rate of some of these items (but not at the expense of the other raid items that people still use at cap), or in some way make them easier to obtain at a lower level so that people might actually use them. I'd love to use weapons such as the twinblade, razorend, or how bout the shining cresents?.. im just not going to cap a character searching/farming for them, only to find they are obsolete.

[Angelus_dead]

A different approach would be to leave the # of runs the same, but boost the power of the items and the CR of the quest.

Either way would be better than leaving things as they are now.

[Impaqt]

This is the natural progression of a MMO. Like it or not, things do indeed get obsoleted. No Changes are necessary. Bottom line is most of the things you mention werent that exciting to begin with anyway. Except for the SoS which I feel is still be best Greatsword in the game except for Shroud Crafted.

[Angelus_dead]

This is the natural progression of a MMO.

No, as a survey of MMORPG history could show. The smarter game designers understand that end-game content needs to be adjusted when your level cap moves on.

Like it or not, things do indeed get obsoleted. No Changes are necessary.

They're only "unnecessary" in the sense that it's not "necessary" for Turbine to work on maintaining DDO as a fun product.

The reasoning is simple and undeniable:
Some items were designed to take a long while to acquire, but players put in that effort because the items were the best possible. Therefore, the items had an effect on gameplay.
As time passed, more items were introduced, some of them superior, easier to obtain, or both. The old items no longer made a contribution to gameplay. The effort that had gone into making them is no longer a positive factor to the quality of gameplay.

For example, White Dragonscale Robe vs Dragontouched Vestaments: the new one is faster to get and superior in some ways, equal in others. The whole mechanic of "collect dragon scales to build armor" dies out (except maybe for the blue ones)

Every time the level cap goes up, Turbine should survey the previously best-in-game items and see if they've been obsoleted. If so, the items can be salvaged either by
(a) Make obtaining them faster, so that worse items don't take more effort
(b) Make newly-obtained items of that kind more powerful, but increase the difficulty of acquisition.

[gfunk]

This is the natural progression of a MMO. Like it or not, things do indeed get obsoleted. No Changes are necessary.

well for example on my way leveling a character, I might make a stop-over in necro for a couple levels instead of just powering through gianthold if I had a decent chance of picking up something cool that i could use for a couple levels. This would increase the enjoyment of the game for me... some others might feel the same. If enough people feel the same then the changes still aren't necessary, but they would be good business.

[RATRACE931]

Only way to change it to make me happy would to give older raids like dragon titan and MAYBE queen give a FULL list, execpt tomes, on a 20th run. That way they dont upgrade they old raids yet again and dont screw with older loot. UPGRADING the difficulty of an old raids is perhaps the DUMBEST thing ive ever heard VON's were for 8-10 when a +3 elemental weapon was uber. Leave it BE but give us a better chance for SoS, Titan Belt, Bramble casters.


PS: SoS becomes the new HIGHEST DPS weapon with a frenzy bezerker in mod 9.

[Angelus_dead]

Only way to change it to make me happy would to give older raids like dragon titan and MAYBE queen give a FULL list, execpt tomes, on a 20th run.

That wouldn't fix the problem, because you can't get 20 runs of any raid before enough time has passed to hit level 15-16. You'd still get faster access to more powerful loot if you just skip trying for the lower loot at all.

PS: SoS becomes the new HIGHEST DPS weapon with a frenzy bezerker in mod 9.

Lol, no it doesn't.

[Arkat]

Lol, no it doesn't.

See, A_D this is the one thing that annoys me about you the most. It is not good enough for you to dismissively "wave your hand" and say things like the above without backing up what you say.

Sometimes you do give reasons/explanations (and when you do they are well thought-out and fairly understandable) but at other times, like what you did for RATRACE931's assertion, is just maddening. There are many people who read the forums and may not have a clue as to why the SoS won't be the best DPS weapon in Mod 9. For those people it would be nice for you to give an explanation why you feel the way you do if you're going to offer your thought on it.

I'm not saying you have to go through a long-winded explanation every time but at least give forum goers something even if it's a quick one or two sentences or even a link would be nice.

[Impaqt]

well for example on my way leveling a character, I might make a stop-over in necro for a couple levels instead of just powering through gianthold if I had a decent chance of picking up something cool that i could use for a couple levels. This would increase the enjoyment of the game for me... some others might feel the same. If enough people feel the same then the changes still aren't necessary, but they would be good business.

Because a Necklace that stops most beholder rays isnt really that good for mid level to capped toon? That scorge Choker isnt that exciting? Or that Docent of Defiance.. Yeah, Pretty lame stuff out there....

You wanna make Old raid gear worth going after? How about when we deconstruct it we get unique crafting components to upgrade our weapons instead of .. Oh wait...... uh, nvm....

[gfunk]

Because a Necklace that stops most beholder rays isnt really that good for mid level to capped toon? That scorge Choker isnt that exciting? Or that Docent of Defiance.. Yeah, Pretty lame stuff out there....

thats stuff that ill go back to farm with my high level alts because of its extremely low drop rate. And my point was to try and get some use out the unused items... not the stuff that is still widely desired at end game.

[Impaqt]

thats stuff that ill go back to farm with my high level alts because of its extremely low drop rate. And my point was to try and get some use out the unused items... not the stuff that is still widely desired at end game.

ANyonce is guarnateed to create a 10 shot Necklace if you complete all three quests.. Heck, Even the 5 granted by just doing up to tier 2 is super nice.

I thought this thread was about Raid gear though?

[Angelus_dead]

See, A_D this is the one thing that annoys me about you the most. It is not good enough for you to dismissively "wave your hand" and say things like the above without backing up what you say.

Yes, it would be nicer to give a full description... but I have other things to do, and the detail of my response equaled the detail of the claim. RATRACE931 gave exactly zero evidence to support his position that Sword of Shadows has the most DPS for a Frenzied Berserker.

For anyone who doesn't know the general facts about SOS and FB:
1. Important bosses have a lot of DR, and Adamantine doesn't beat it.
1b. That DR reduces glancing blows to almost nothing.
2. Important bosses may have Fortification, which is a percentage chance to ignore the only benefit of SOS.
3. Frenzied Berserker grants additional weapon procs on glancing blows, but SOS has no procs.
4. As a greatsword, SOS has less attack speed than a greataxe.
5. Frenzied Berserker grants bonus crit mult on 19-20, which has exactly the same per-hit damage effect on every kind of weapon (but gives more bonus to weapons which swing faster)

[DoctorWhofan]

Only way to change it to make me happy would to give older raids like dragon titan and MAYBE queen give a FULL list, execpt tomes, on a 20th run. That way they dont upgrade they old raids yet again and dont screw with older loot. UPGRADING the difficulty of an old raids is perhaps the DUMBEST thing ive ever heard VON's were for 8-10 when a +3 elemental weapon was uber. Leave it BE but give us a better chance for SoS, Titan Belt, Bramble casters.


PS: SoS becomes the new HIGHEST DPS weapon with a frenzy bezerker in mod 9.

I like this idea, I just don't likethe fact i have to do Titan and DQ twenty times. But it might keep the hordes happy.

[gfunk]

ANyonce is guarnateed to create a 10 shot Necklace if you complete all three quests.. Heck, Even the 5 granted by just doing up to tier 2 is super nice.

I thought this thread was about Raid gear though?

As you stated "an item that stops most beholder rays" I had thought you were talking about the Eye of the beholder (from litany), which is certainly a hard to get item. The silver flame talisman stops more then just beholders.

And if you read the first post, or the title, you will see that it wasn't about raid gear (numerous collectable turn in items were listed by way of example).

[Frodo_Lives]

The only problem is that the Dragon raid for example is a raid that can be done with characters well below cap, even characters that are levels 9 - 10. If you increase the difficulty of the lower level raids to go along with the better items then that removes those raids for mid levels so that all raiding is done at cap or close to it.

If you don't change the difficulty but bump up the items (which are already the best you can get/use for the level that you can run it at) then how overpowered do these items become for those that do get them at appropriate level?

I have no problem with items becoming outdated as you level and have their usefullness decrease, after all there aren't too many items from STK that you still use at level 10.

If changes to the game and loot tables have made some items junk from raid loot or chain quest end rewards so that they are nothing more then vendor trash then by all means reworking those items would be welcome. Reworking items that are highly desireable at level 10 so that they are still desireable at level 16 (or 20) doesn't really seem reasonable to me.

[Borror0]

This is the natural progression of a MMO. Like it or not, things do indeed get obsoleted. No Changes are necessary.

Letting stuff be obsolete is a poor use of your resources.

ANyonce is guarnateed to create a 10 shot Necklace if you complete all three quests.. Heck, Even the 5 granted by just doing up to tier 2 is super nice.

Except these quests are a pain in the ass to do. Okay, we do XP crypt once in a while, but beside that? Nothing.

Sure, his example was a bad one but it does not make of his idea a bad one.

[Impaqt]

Letting stuff be obsolete is a poor use of your resources.
1. You dont need to do any of those quests if ya dont want too. THus no resorces Must be used. and 2. Weapons, Armor and Items SHOULD get better as you level. I used the DragonHelm on my latest cleric until I made my shroud item... Many people use the boots as well... and 3. many of the items were useless when the cap was 10 even

Except these quests are a pain in the ass to do. Okay, we do XP crypt once in a while, but beside that? Nothing.

Sure, his example was a bad one but it does not make of his idea a bad one.

THe Rat maze is borderline PITA territory.. The rest? Simple teamwork is involved. The Swimming one? I havnet found it to be overly complicated.... Just dont enjoy swimming that much.

[Borror0]

On that note, I'll make the controversial statement and say that leveling is too easy in DDO.

[Borror0]

You dont need to do any of those quests if ya dont want too. THus no resorces Must be used.

I was talking about Turbine's resources, not ours.

[Impaqt]

I was talking about Turbine's resources, not ours.

DOnt agree there.. VON was and still is one of the best quest series ever coded by the dev team. The fact that the kloot at the end isnt as useful at level 16 as it was at level 10 is academic.

If they didnt "Waste" their resorces on lower level stuff how would anyone ever get to end game? SInce most people spend the Majority of their game time Capped, why go back and revamp the Harbor? Most people group so why Make Hirelings?
Less than 10% of the charaters onthe server are Monks so why Bother there?

Many people do indeed spend a LOT of time between Level 10 and 15. THey use those items for a long time before they can get a replacement.