Mod 9 Monk 17-20 gives ???

[Gratch]

Just looking at the monk class benefits for 17-20 that we in theory get with Mod 9.

The good things:

• Unarmed damage increases (2d8 to 2d10 at L20)
• +1 AC at 20
• Speed bump at 18
• Tier 4 of Monk Elemental Styles at 18

Now the... what do they do with these things - quoting from the d20srd

Timeless Body (Ex)
Upon attaining 17th level, a monk no longer takes penalties to her ability scores for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any such penalties that she has already taken, however, remain in place. Bonuses still accrue, and the monk still dies of old age when her time is up.

Tongue of the Sun and Moon (Ex)
A monk of 17th level or higher can speak with any living creature.

Empty Body (Su)
At 19th level, a monk gains the ability to assume an ethereal state for 1 round per monk level per day, as though using the spell etherealness. She may go ethereal on a number of different occasions during any single day, as long as the total number of rounds spent in an ethereal state does not exceed her monk level.

Perfect Self
At 20th level, a monk becomes a magical creature. She is forevermore treated as an outsider rather than as a humanoid (or whatever the monk’s creature type was) for the purpose of spells and magical effects. Additionally, the monk gains damage reduction 10/magic, which allows her to ignore the first 10 points of damage from any attack made by a nonmagical weapon or by any natural attack made by a creature that doesn’t have similar damage reduction. Unlike other outsiders, the monk can still be brought back from the dead as if she were a member of her previous creature type.

I'm seeing DR10/magic and some not too useful... maybe implemented as well as the Shadowwalk spell ethereal state... and you're an ageless outsdier that can talk to birds. gratz.

*shrug*

Wonder if they'll do anything with these more RP side abilities to translate into DDO. Maybe a cha skills bump?

[TrenchcoatJesus]

While the benefits gained that you listed sound underwhelming, it's important not to forget that all monk levels continue progression for monk abilities.

That means those 4 monk levels also give:
+2 to monk ability DCs (+4 to finishers)
+2d4 to healing ki die
+4 to spell resistance (giving a base 30 at level 20 if pure monk)
Increased saves (noteworthy since it's the only class with high saves in all three categories)
Last attack and animation (?) - The way DDO handles attacks I would have to guess they are adding a final one at BAB 20, but that is pure speculation. If so, monks using monk weapons will reach that 20 BAB for supposed final attack chain/animation.
Continued Slow Fall progression

and anything else I might have missed. I cannot quite remember if monk level is entered into Wholeness of Body healing or not, but I believe it is. Each level also adds 10 to your max ki pool.

Your guess is as good as mine as to how Perfect Self, Empty Body, Timeless Body and Tongue of the Sun and Moon are implemented, but I figured I would chime in with all those little extra bonuses the 17-20th monk levels give. In PnP and likewise in DDO, monks and casters are generally the classes that get the biggest benefits for staying pure. In light of the capstones and numerous discussion of multiclass splashing, I figured it'd be worth noting that full leveled monks do get more than an unarmed die upgrade, speed upgrade and AC out of their last four levels.

[Gratch]

I forgot about a few things... thanks for catching.

Last attack and animation (?) - The way DDO handles attacks I would have to guess they are adding a final one at BAB 20, but that is pure speculation. If so, monks using monk weapons will reach that 20 BAB for supposed final attack chain/animation.

It seemed back at Mod 6 when Codog was talking about attack animation speed, TWF damage hooks and such that the BAB 16 attack animation was the final one to add to DDO and that they couldn't fix things like THF weapon speeds matching due to lacking a resource/time to redo all the animations. At least I never got the sense there would be a BAB20 attack.

Also, I thought we are at least loosely based around the PnP added attacks, though we're one higher. Everytime PnP BAB gets another attack so do we. There's no extra attack at BAB20 in PnP....

[Gratch]

10/epic? gasps.

I don't think monks need a capstone enhancement...

Heh... I was right on shadowwalk... sadly. I'd prefer the miss chance too (or a fixing up of shadowwalk so the vision effect goes away after a few seconds like rage... and the hide/sneak capability of it are bumped up a few notches).

Also... throwing out dr/epic. Will epic damage capable weapons be added to >16 level loot and upcoming raid items... as I'm guessing it will start to be on all the mobs/bosses. That would also help somewhat with "I don't need another dps weapon after mineral 2" problem we currently have.

[Angelus_dead]

I'm seeing DR10/magic and some not too useful... maybe implemented as well as the Shadowwalk spell ethereal state... and you're an ageless outsdier that can talk to birds. gratz.

For Empty Body I hope and expect a short duration self-buff to gain a 20% incorporeal miss chance.

[CrimsonEagle]

For Empty Body I hope and expect a short duration self-buff to gain a 20% incorporeal miss chance.

Would this stack with blur/displacment? (I realize different type so they should, but just want to make sure if that is what you are saying).

[frugal_gourmet]

Would this stack with blur/displacment? (I realize different type so they should, but just want to make sure if that is what you are saying).

I think probably not.

[Eladrin]

Timeless Body
Prereqs: Level 17 Monk
Benefit: Your soul is balanced. No corrupt influences can possess your body after death - you are immune to the spawn effect of most undead.

Empty Body
Prereqs: Level 19 Monk
Benefit: You are able to focus your ki and walk the edge of the Plane of Shadow, mimicing the effects of a Shadow Walk spell. While this effect is active, you move much faster than normal and your outline appears faint and you are harder to hit. Attacking another creature or otherwise interacting with objects shunts you back to the Material Plane.

Perfect Self
Prereqs: Level 20 Monk
Benefit: You have transcended your former race, and are now considered a Lawful Outsider. You have gained damage reduction 10 / epic. Warforged retain most living construct traits.

Perfect Slow Fall
Prereqs: Level 20 Monk
Benefit: You take no damage from falls of any height.

[rimble]

Timeless Body
Prereqs: Level 17 Monk
Benefit: Your soul is balanced. No corrupt influences can possess your body after death - you are immune to the spawn effect of most undead.

Empty Body
Prereqs: Level 19 Monk
Benefit: You are able to focus your ki and walk the edge of the Plane of Shadow, mimicing the effects of a Shadow Walk spell. While this effect is active, you move much faster than normal and your outline appears faint and you are harder to hit. Attacking another creature or otherwise interacting with objects shunts you back to the Material Plane.

Perfect Self
Prereqs: Level 20 Monk
Benefit: You have transcended your former race, and are now considered a Lawful Outsider. You have gained damage reduction 10 / epic. Warforged retain most living construct traits.

Perfect Slow Fall
Prereqs: Level 20 Monk
Benefit: You take no damage from falls of any height.

17 - Lame.

18 - Tier IV Stances.

19 - Lame but maybe useful to sprint past some content. I admit I haven't used Shadow Walk.

20 - Epic!

[negative]

Empty Body
Prereqs: Level 19 Monk
Benefit: You are able to focus your ki and walk the edge of the Plane of Shadow, mimicing the effects of a Shadow Walk spell. While this effect is active, you move much faster than normal and your outline appears faint and you are harder to hit. Attacking another creature or otherwise interacting with objects shunts you back to the Material Plane.

Suppose this means we'll never see the Etherealness or Ethereal Jaunt spells added to the game. FYI Shadow Walk is totally lame. Maybe if you fixed the purple haze.....

Perfect Self
Prereqs: Level 20 Monk
Benefit: You have transcended your former race, and are now considered a Lawful Outsider. You have gained damage reduction 10 / epic. Warforged retain most
living construct traits.

10/Epic? Hot. So what traits do WF lose?

[The_Ick]

Timeless Body
Prereqs: Level 17 Monk
Benefit: Your soul is balanced. No corrupt influences can possess your body after death - you are immune to the spawn effect of most undead.

Empty Body
Prereqs: Level 19 Monk
Benefit: You are able to focus your ki and walk the edge of the Plane of Shadow, mimicing the effects of a Shadow Walk spell. While this effect is active, you move much faster than normal and your outline appears faint and you are harder to hit. Attacking another creature or otherwise interacting with objects shunts you back to the Material Plane.

Perfect Self
Prereqs: Level 20 Monk
Benefit: You have transcended your former race, and are now considered a Lawful Outsider. You have gained damage reduction 10 / epic. Warforged retain most living construct traits.

Perfect Slow Fall
Prereqs: Level 20 Monk
Benefit: You take no damage from falls of any height.

Pardon my ignorance..

What would epic DR protect against?

All damage, some damage, etc...

[Aesop]

Timeless Body
Prereqs: Level 17 Monk
Benefit: Your soul is balanced. No corrupt influences can possess your body after death - you are immune to the spawn effect of most undead.

Empty Body
Prereqs: Level 19 Monk
Benefit: You are able to focus your ki and walk the edge of the Plane of Shadow, mimicing the effects of a Shadow Walk spell. While this effect is active, you move much faster than normal and your outline appears faint and you are harder to hit. Attacking another creature or otherwise interacting with objects shunts you back to the Material Plane.

Perfect Self
Prereqs: Level 20 Monk
Benefit: You have transcended your former race, and are now considered a Lawful Outsider. You have gained damage reduction 10 / epic. Warforged retain most living construct traits.

Perfect Slow Fall
Prereqs: Level 20 Monk
Benefit: You take no damage from falls of any height.

ok sounds good... I can dig on those

Aesop

[Angelus_dead]

Perfect Self
Prereqs: Level 20 Monk
Benefit: You have transcended your former race, and are now considered a Lawful Outsider.

I have to assume the interaction with race-restricted magic items will NOT be as-written.

It's fine if you become immune to Halfling Bane, but if you can't wear your AC 8 Bracers anymore...

[Maegin]

Timeless Body
Prereqs: Level 17 Monk
Benefit: Your soul is balanced. No corrupt influences can possess your body after death - you are immune to the spawn effect of most undead.

Empty Body
Prereqs: Level 19 Monk
Benefit: You are able to focus your ki and walk the edge of the Plane of Shadow, mimicing the effects of a Shadow Walk spell. While this effect is active, you move much faster than normal and your outline appears faint and you are harder to hit. Attacking another creature or otherwise interacting with objects shunts you back to the Material Plane.

Perfect Self
Prereqs: Level 20 Monk
Benefit: You have transcended your former race, and are now considered a Lawful Outsider. You have gained damage reduction 10 / epic. Warforged retain most living construct traits.

Perfect Slow Fall
Prereqs: Level 20 Monk
Benefit: You take no damage from falls of any height.

I think its all pretty good Goes well with the monk flavor. Timeless body is a neat feature, that goes with the monk flow. Empty body is really cool, but would be cooler if it added a fly spell cast on it and only lasted as long as a non extended displacement, but hey, i can dream too. Perfect self is waay better than its pnp counterpart, and perfect slowfall fits right in line with the pnp counterpart.

As for complaints on timeless body, well your supposed to not die from ageing, but in a game where your pretty much immortal anyways, I think this a decent trade off. Better something than nothing, right? Plus it just adds more to the superhuman aspect of the monk, which people tent to take mucho for granted.

As for empty body, i think its pretty sweet. I mean you get what elves have to spend 3 feats on for free! And has anyone actually used this spell? It acts like haste and displacement rolled together, really handy especially when your running stones back to a shrine. And as far as the ethereal jaunt counterpart is concerned, i think you pop out of it when you attack anyways, so this ability just adds more to what the class represents : Mobility and options. I really dont see them adding ethereal jaunt to the game, since it breaks the rules too hard, in that people can noclip through walls, fly over mobs and parts of their game that they took so long to create. Imagin having a group of monks, just fly past ground traps, or past scripted parts that require a fight, or strait past a boss adn right into his loot chamber (lawfull anyone?)? Lame... people would complain on that just as bad as the crit range 2 change lol!

What is not cool about %50 concealment and haste rolled together, being FREE (albeit minor ki use) that people just take for granted?! Really? are we that spoiled? its FREE and people are complaining already?! They gave us dr 10/EPIC when it sould have been just magic... I mean, c'mon! You gotta work with whatcha got!

Gj developers, keep up the good work

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Timeless Body
Prereqs: Level 17 Monk
Benefit: Your soul is balanced. No corrupt influences can possess your body after death - you are immune to the spawn effect of most undead.

Suggestion: how about some sort of reduction in the death penalty for Level 17 monks? Perhaps halving the recovery time, or perhaps even one 'free' death without Touch of Dolurrh penalty.

Garth

[redoubt]

Timeless Body
Prereqs: Level 17 Monk
Benefit: Your soul is balanced. No corrupt influences can possess your body after death - you are immune to the spawn effect of most undead.

Empty Body
Prereqs: Level 19 Monk
Benefit: You are able to focus your ki and walk the edge of the Plane of Shadow, mimicing the effects of a Shadow Walk spell. While this effect is active, you move much faster than normal and your outline appears faint and you are harder to hit. Attacking another creature or otherwise interacting with objects shunts you back to the Material Plane.

Perfect Self
Prereqs: Level 20 Monk
Benefit: You have transcended your former race, and are now considered a Lawful Outsider. You have gained damage reduction 10 / epic. Warforged retain most living construct traits.

Perfect Slow Fall
Prereqs: Level 20 Monk
Benefit: You take no damage from falls of any height.

So if i'm not halfling anymore, do i lose things like +1 AC for being a halfling?

[Hanza]

Timeless Body
Prereqs: Level 17 Monk
Benefit: Your soul is balanced. No corrupt influences can possess your body after death - you are immune to the spawn effect of most undead.

Empty Body
Prereqs: Level 19 Monk
Benefit: You are able to focus your ki and walk the edge of the Plane of Shadow, mimicing the effects of a Shadow Walk spell. While this effect is active, you move much faster than normal and your outline appears faint and you are harder to hit. Attacking another creature or otherwise interacting with objects shunts you back to the Material Plane.

Perfect Self
Prereqs: Level 20 Monk
Benefit: You have transcended your former race, and are now considered a Lawful Outsider. You have gained damage reduction 10 / epic. Warforged retain most living construct traits.

Perfect Slow Fall
Prereqs: Level 20 Monk
Benefit: You take no damage from falls of any height.

Awesome, Thank you for posting these. They all seem pretty fair. My only question is what mobs and weapons are considered epic? Since in pnp an epic mob is one with more than 20 hit dice. Will it be mobs in quests above level 20?

[Will_Ferrer]

Timeless Body
Prereqs: Level 17 Monk
Benefit: Your soul is balanced. No corrupt influences can possess your body after death - you are immune to the spawn effect of most undead.

Empty Body
Prereqs: Level 19 Monk
Benefit: You are able to focus your ki and walk the edge of the Plane of Shadow, mimicing the effects of a Shadow Walk spell. While this effect is active, you move much faster than normal and your outline appears faint and you are harder to hit. Attacking another creature or otherwise interacting with objects shunts you back to the Material Plane.

Perfect Self
Prereqs: Level 20 Monk
Benefit: You have transcended your former race, and are now considered a Lawful Outsider. You have gained damage reduction 10 / epic. Warforged retain most living construct traits.

Perfect Slow Fall
Prereqs: Level 20 Monk
Benefit: You take no damage from falls of any height.

Is being an outsider going to allow monks to bypass other outsider DR?

[Aesop]

For Empty Body I hope and expect a short duration self-buff to gain a 20% incorporeal miss chance.

I think I hope for 50% Incorporeal miss chance ... I mean level 19 and all that

Aesop

[vtecfiend99]

I think I hope for 50% Incorporeal miss chance ... I mean level 19 and all that

Aesop

agreed, doesn't seem that overpowered.