Mod 9 Monk 17-20 gives ???

[Rog]

Why not just test this on Kasquik the Mighty - the devs have already said that he has DR/epic...

DDO has interpretted PnP rules differently many many times before - quoting PnP rules doesn't make it true - someone should test this before coming to any conclusions.

Garth

p.s. thanks a lot for turning a thread that Eladrin posted in into a flamefest - a 100% guarantee he won't be posting here about Monks again for a while.

if that is your test sample i can safly say my +3 true chaos cold iron heavypick of greater reptilian bane does not bypass his dr but it does rip him a new one when my barb is in rage and crits was a great buy from the ah before the shroud came out
mojo will be a very happy halfing monk thnx dev team for the infomation
mojomuscle

[negative]

So yes, becoming a LAWFUL outsider suggests all weapons they hold as well as natural attacks (remember, Ki was limited to unarmed only attacks monk weapon attacks and ki weapon attacks; it is implied [but I cannot guarantee it is and will be implimented] that ALL weaponry weilded now have this for the purpose of damage reduction.

Here's the problem. You would be right, except Monks don't become Lawful Outsiders. They do not gain the Lawful Subtype. If anything, and I'm not 100% on this, they gain the Native Subtype instead. Either way, the lack of the lawful subtype is a very important distinction.

On a different note, what they should gain, from getting DR 10/Epic, is that their natural attacks (unarmed) bypass epic DR.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbi...amageReduction

A few very powerful monsters are vulnerable only to epic weapons; that is, magic weapons with at least a +6 enhancement bonus. Such creatures’ natural weapons are also treated as epic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

Of course, I guess it's not the end of the world if we don't see this. And I'd rather not see it, if it's going to have any effect on us getting (or not getting) the epic DR.

[Angelus_dead]

Here's the problem. You would be right, except Monks don't become Lawful Outsiders. They do not gain the Lawful Subtype.

Monks DO become Lawful Outsiders, just like trolls are Evil Giants and Kobolds are Lawful Reptilians.

Monks don't get the Lawful subtype, which is what matters regarding DR. All the examples of Slaad and Maruts beating DR is because of the alignment subtype, not because they're outsiders (which is especially true since a Marut is not an Outsider)

[negative]

Monks DO become Lawful Outsiders, just like trolls are Evil Giants and Kobolds are Lawful Reptilians.

Monks don't get the Lawful subtype, which is what matters regarding DR. All the examples of Slaad and Maruts beating DR is because of the alignment subtype, not because they're outsiders (which is especially true since a Marut is not an Outsider)

Which, of course, is exactly what I said. Unless you want to quibble over wether "Lawful Outsider" refers to an outsider with the lawful subtype or an outsider with the lawful alignment.

[Ikuryo]

I'm happy to see the list of how the 17-20 feats are going to be implemented. It looks like my comment way back when monks first came out that DR/Magic while handy in pnp is completely worthless since any monster over level 4 has a magic weapon. DR/Epic is a interesting idea, I was thinking of having it be /- or adamantine or some such.

If you look at the feat list by level 16 a monks fists are Magic, Lawful and Adamantine. As to what qualifies as an epic weapon it looks like it would need to be +6, have a single effect that is +6 or greater equivilant, or have a total value of 200,000gp or more. A +5 Holy, Axiomatic, Lightning, Flaming, Acid, dagger of greater kobold bane would not qualify as an Epic weapon. Even though the total + when you add up all the + equivalents of the effects is greater then +6 none of the effects are a +6 effect. The total market value + of that weapon would be +15 or +16 (can't remember if Greater Bane is a +3 or +4 effect) but no single effect is a +6 effect.

I'm not sure how the dmg/hit bonus from the bane effect would work against the target creature if it has DR/Epic, it would be an effective +9 weapon but the greater bane effect is only +4 and would not count as an epic effect. Hearing about it from the official boards would be interesting, its Turbines choice on how to implement it though.

Going by the info on DR and how it affects natural attacks with this change a monks fist attack would be bypassing Adamantine, Lawful, Magic, and [Epic +10] (DR). Not sure if that is clear but it would make DR/Epic not mean much vs an unarmed monk. The monk still could not get past piercing, slashing and any of a number of other DR types though.

From what I understand of Perfect Self you are treated as an outsider instead of a humanoid for spell effects, it says nothing of changing your actual type. If you lost your racial bonuses then human monks would lose a feat at 20th and the other races would have all sorts of odd things happen. I think the halflings can all be safe in their racial bonuses. It was interesting that the halflings were first asking about their +1 size AC bonus then the other racial bonuses. Its not like becoming an outsider would suddenly make you tall.

I'll leave you the image of a group of halfings sprouting up to double their size suddenly when they level from monk 19 to monk 20.

[Will_Ferrer]

From what I understand of Perfect Self you are treated as an outsider instead of a humanoid for spell effects, it says nothing of changing your actual type. If you lost your racial bonuses then human monks would lose a feat at 20th and the other races would have all sorts of odd things happen. I think the halflings can all be safe in their racial bonuses. It was interesting that the halflings were first asking about their +1 size AC bonus then the other racial bonuses. Its not like becoming an outsider would suddenly make you tall.

Humans get a bonus feat at lvl 20??? I never played PnP I have no clue whats in store.

[Ikuryo]

Humans get a bonus feat at level 1. If halflings were going to lose their racial bonuses for becoming a 20th level monk humans would be losing their bonus feat as well. I don't even want to think of what about the +1 skill point at each level that humans also get as a racial bonus.

Its just to show that the chance of halflings losing their precious +1 AC and other bonuses is zero.

[Taelan]

Hello, could we perhaps get this thread stickied as the monks abilities granted at levels 17 thru 20 are listed here and I would guess that some folks would like to check back at these without having to hunt it down. Thanks!

[Delacroix21]

Just a recap on the feats from another monks perspective


Timeless Body
Really could use a buff, a spawn screen effect really does not meet the power of never being able to age in PnP, also granting immunity to level and or ability drain would be awesome.


Empty Body
Was really looking for more of a perm blur type effect or the like. Could be cool but the current shadow walk spell is not. Also remove the ki cost, this is an ability made EXPLICITLY to avoid combat, and so shouldnt require combat (other then meditation) to build the ki to do it.


Perfect Self
Great and exactly what I was looking for. Maybe just make it DR/- to avoid any confusion .


Tongue of Sun and Moon
Arguably THE most powerful ability given to monks in PnP yet totally absent here. Perhaps a HUGE bonus to bluff, diplomacy, and haggle to make up for it? (I am talking like +20 to each). No real build could "break" this feat as other then a haggle bot there would be no point in maxxing, would just add a cool flair to the monk class I think.

[Taelan]

Now that is an excellent idea. I think that that exactly models the idea of the ability and I would be happy with a +10 bonus. At the very least it allows monks to get rid of some items that they carry around. i.e. the haggle item. Add to that the fairly common fact that a monk has little to no Charisma, this would not terribly break the skills. There would still be others who could easily get their social skills higher than a monks. But, trust me when I say that it would at least make this monk a happy camper!

[hu-flung-pu]

How does the ability to talk to animals and insects equate to +10-20 on haggle and diplomacy?

It's powerful in PnP, not so much in DDO.

I think you guys are hoping for a little too much.

[Brother_Solar]

Being able to speak to a living creature doesn't necessarily mean you will be more persuasive. Then again, being able to communicate more efficiently certainly wouldn't hurt your chances! Providing a passive bonus to the Diplomacy skill would give the developers a way to use current game mechanics to approximate the Pen and Paper ability.

All together, I don't regard it as a bad idea.

[Will_Ferrer]

When I logged in my lvl 16 monk I checked my combat log and noticed a few things

(Combat): You benefit from purity of body.
(Combat): You are immune to the effects of disease.
(Combat): You benefit from diamond body.
(Combat): You are immune to the effects of poison.
(Combat): You benefit from timeless body.
(Combat): You are immune to spawn effects when you die.

You benefit from timeless body? I thought that was the lvl 17 feat:

Timeless Body
Prereqs: Level 17 Monk
Benefit: Your soul is balanced. No corrupt influences can possess your body after death - you are immune to the spawn effect of most undead.

But somehow my capped monk has it now /shrug.
I went and tested it and it works I have the effects of spawn screen just as my combat log suggests

I went to take a look at my other monk and it turns out that my lvl 8 monk carrys the same bug I submitted a report, but I dont think they will change it, spawn screen is pretty weak if u ask me.