What ever happened to ranged rangers?

[bobbryan2]

not my fault your not as good with ranged combat, its not just point and shoot you have to utilize the battlefield and your party. a good archer plays to the strength of his party

You can give me platitudes and adages all day long... that doesn't make ranged combat effective... and it doesn't mean that I simply don't know how to use ranged combat.

You have 2 pages before this of people saying that ranged combat is gimped... that ranged combat can't keep up with the DPS of melees, and several other points that I don't need to go through again.

Does ranged combat have its place? Sure... but guess what.. in all those places, a good melee ranger can whip out a bow and probably do better than the ranged specced ranger because he actually has strength and will do more damage per shot.

Simply saying "use ranged combat better" doesn't make ranged combat better.

[drac317]

You can give me platitudes and adages all day long... that doesn't make ranged combat effective... and it doesn't mean that I simply don't know how to use ranged combat.

You have 2 pages before this of people saying that ranged combat is gimped... that ranged combat can't keep up with the DPS of melees, and several other points that I don't need to go through again.

Does ranged combat have its place? Sure... but guess what.. in all those places, a good melee ranger can whip out a bow and probably do better than the ranged specced ranger because he actually has strength and will do more damage per shot.

Simply saying "use ranged combat better" doesn't make ranged combat better.

so now you say it has its place earlier you said it didnt

least im not bored sitting at work now

[bobbryan2]

so now you say it has its place earlier you said it didnt

least im not bored sitting at work now

It has places where it's useful... sure.

It doesn't have enough places where it's useful to base entire characters' worth off of. I haven't changed my opinion with that. And I said that all those melees rangers can fulfill that small slot quite effectively.

I thought the original question was, "Where did the ranged rangers go, all I see is melee rangers."

[drac317]

It has places where it's useful... sure.

It doesn't have enough places where it's useful to base entire characters' worth off of. I haven't changed my opinion with that. And I said that all those melees rangers can fulfill that small slot quite effectively.

I thought the original question was, "Where did the ranged rangers go, all I see is melee rangers."

your opinion sure your entitled to that,but dont say that no one should play ranged toons because thats only your opinion and your not paying our $15 a month.i pay to play this game so ill play how i want and continue to do it better every time i pull the bow string.

oh, and to the original question we're all at work or taking naps atm

[bobbryan2]

your opinion sure your entitled to that,but dont say that no one should play ranged toons because thats only your opinion and your not paying our $15 a month.i pay to play this game so ill play how i want and continue to do it better every time i pull the bow string.

oh, and to the original question we,re all at work or taking naps atm

Hey, I don't care what people do when they're solo.

It only bothers me when I put DPS on an LFM and a ranged ranger offers to join. And you don't find out until way later that they actually have no DPS.

[drac317]

Hey, I don't care what people do when they're solo.

It only bothers me when I put DPS on an LFM and a ranged ranger offers to join. And you don't find out until way later that they actually have no DPS.

then post no ranged in your lfm to be clear if thats how you feel but everyone is entitled to play there own way,even in groups

[bobbryan2]

then post no ranged in your lfm to be clear if thats how you feel but everyone is entitled to play there own way,even in groups

Within reason of course. Unless you think that the person who actively tries to wipe every group he joins is entitled to that as well.

I can make a fighter with 8 strength and 18 charisma who didn't even put points into UMD. That doesn't mean it's going to be as effective as everyone else. Are you entitled to play him? Sure. I still think it's a discourteous thing to do unless the rest of the group knows in advance and doesn't mind.

[drac317]

Within reason of course. Unless you think that the person who actively tries to wipe every group he joins is entitled to that as well.

I can make a fighter with 8 strength and 18 charisma who didn't even put points into UMD. That doesn't mean it's going to be as effective as everyone else. Are you entitled to play him? Sure. I still think it's a discourteous thing to do unless the rest of the group knows in advance and doesn't mind.

you got a point but every ranged toon isn't actively trying to wipe the party as you say just because there not doing things your way.

ok gotta work for the next 20 minutes then i'll be off till friday.don't check forums at home i'd rather play. bye

[Uska]

Hey, I don't care what people do when they're solo.

It only bothers me when I put DPS on an LFM and a ranged ranger offers to join. And you don't find out until way later that they actually have no DPS.

The only reason my poor little ranged ranger doesnt have much dps for melee or great for ranged yet is I am new to Thelanis and havet looted proper gear yet, but I will try to avoid your groups if my prefrence for ranged bothers you though I do switch to melee when I need to.

[bobbryan2]

The only reason my poor little ranged ranger doesnt have much dps for melee or great for ranged yet is I am new to Thelanis and havet looted proper gear yet, but I will try to avoid your groups if my prefrence for ranged bothers you though I do switch to melee when I need to.

In reality... I don't care all that strongly one way or the other. In the most mildest way possible, I think it's a little silly to keep making ranged characters when ranged combat doesn't work right. But I feel very similarly about S&B characters when S&B is simply not up to snuff.

Will I throw people out because they have a shield? Of course not... but I go into a quest knowing I need to shore up for their inadequacies. And I'd still rather have a good player on a S&B than a poor one on a TWF character.

I'm all for threads that ask the devs for upgrades to ranged and S&B... I just don't see why people make ranged characters, keep playing ranged characters knowing their ineffective, and just wishing and hoping that one day they'll be good.

I understand trying ranged out. About a year ago, I did my little 14 barbarian/2 ranger expirement to see if I could make an awesome ranged character with improved critical. And there are still some places where he's absolutely sick... although it's almost entirely with the expanded crit range on a WoP bow with manyshot. But I eventually gave it up as it wasn't fun to me to not be living up to my potential as a party member.

Other people don't have those perfectionist vibes I do.. so I get by with it. It really only ticks me off when we baaarely fail a quest and had a few substandard builds that really weren't pulling their weight at all. Normally I give a smirk and move on.

[Uska]

In reality... I don't care all that strongly one way or the other. In the most mildest way possible, I think it's a little silly to keep making ranged characters when ranged combat doesn't work right. But I feel very similarly about S&B characters when S&B is simply not up to snuff.

Will I throw people out because they have a shield? Of course not... but I go into a quest knowing I need to shore up for their inadequacies. And I'd still rather have a good player on a S&B than a poor one on a TWF character.

I'm all for threads that ask the devs for upgrades to ranged and S&B... I just don't see why people make ranged characters, keep playing ranged characters knowing their ineffective, and just wishing and hoping that one day they'll be good.

I understand trying ranged out. About a year ago, I did my little 14 barbarian/2 ranger expirement to see if I could make an awesome ranged character with improved critical. And there are still some places where he's absolutely sick... although it's almost entirely with the expanded crit range on a WoP bow with manyshot. But I eventually gave it up as it wasn't fun to me to not be living up to my potential as a party member.

Other people don't have those perfectionist vibes I do.. so I get by with it. It really only ticks me off when we baaarely fail a quest and had a few substandard builds that really weren't pulling their weight at all. Normally I give a smirk and move on.

I plan on trying to play my ranger mainly ranged but does that mean I wont try to have him ready to switch to twf no I will do the best as I can with what gear I can beg, borrow, loot, buy or steal, I will also be ready to switch to a shield when I have to. just to let you know my Ranger's name is Tarkain and you can allow or disallow him at your pleasure I can see your point but I play to have fun fail or succeed at a quest generaly I would prefer to succeed though. Nothing like softing up the foe with a nice multishot then wading into him with your blades.

[Aesop]

They should....

But until they do....

By that logic though no non full spell caster would be anything but a TWF.

and since the most effective twf are rangers no one would make anything else.

so the choices for non full spell casters would essentially be

Khopesh DPS Rangers
Rapier DPS Rangers.


imagine how boring that would be


The good part about people playing these weaker builds is that the flaws in the design get examined and talked about, new ideas and suggestions come to the front, and maybe just maybe if enough ideas and suggestions come to the Devs ear (er eyes) they will say... "hey why don't we try this"


Aesop

[query]

is the person not knowing how to use them.


I'm not going over the DPS for the gazillionth time or the deco-bozillionth speed issue.

I have no complaints when Erifer joins guild, PUG or alliance runs.

The Deepwood SNIPER goes waaaay back after scoping out the battlefield (like he's EVER spotted) and giving the info, picks his primary and secondary targets after the cuddly frontline dps-machos get their attention.

All I know is I snipe, and that almost full bar goes down 2/3 to 3/4...and I'm not talking only when Manyshot is up.

Oh by THEN they will go to their new "friend," if the primary threats (like casters) and secondary threats (anything that causes a slaughter to be delayed) are still moving.

After they wade through the REST of the people who can kill them. And that "gimped" level of rogue that allows him to do assassin break in like things....also works at point blank shot with the silver bow he STILL likes using over others.

And if SOMEHOW the thing is moving and kiting is not going to work, out come the melee weapons of hackmaster and the thing is DEAD.

I rarely die or even get injured too, so I must be master of all Gimps!

You may prey...I mean pray to him as an aspect of assassins, and I'm sure Erifer will welcome the ascent into godhood having a small but deadly group of followers killing all in their way or their pay before the victims realize the're dead

Edit: but no, I LOVED the WF rapiers carrying barbarian that didn't wait and got shredded to pieces and asked ME to drop him off at a shrine.

Of course I did other things first (for instance, disabling the traps and sniping the horde while others fought the new "friends,") and mentioned I then MIGHT get around to it IF he followed directions this time.

Wow, even BETTER trained than a puppy then (and hey, he's EVIL; that block barely helped HIM out so what was HIS benefit when the rest of the group was doing fine? A servant for the rest of the chain? OK ) [All in good RP humor of course]

[Venar]

The question that makes range combat hard to adjust for devs is:

How much is distance worth?

I mean, you can't have range combat be as good as melee, because you are out of danger. Currently, the trade off is a little off-balance and most player think using a bow is gimped.

But, it does not stop you from making one, specially if you play smart.
The main draw to range is that you can pick your targets. Room opens, you can select the caster mob at the back and kill it without having to rush it. A good sniper is always nice in a group. You will have less kills then a TWF tornado, but your surgical kills do help.

If you just plan on tabing the next mob, you will be as bad as those stupid caster who tab-FoD.
This always amaze me. I am on my melee, helping on Shroud IV gnolls. 2 gnoll appear. I attack one. It's at 5% then BAM, someone FoDs it in my face, while the other gnoll is at 100%. Go go ubber player!

It's the same with archers. You can just tab and try to land an arrow on mobs dying fast, or you can be that surgeon that takes out threats.

[dragonofsteel2]

They live deep in the forest just refuse to come out p.

[query]

LOOKOUTTHATARROWMISSEDYOUBYAFRACTIONOFANINCH!

Oh, he was just "testing the strength of a new bowstring," no worries

They live deep in the forest just refuse to come out p.

[Falcone]

I still play my 28 point elven ranger that I spec'd for ranged damage, including 4 fighter levels with Weapon Specialization. I built him before the precise shot feats or the prestige class enhancements existed, because it was a fun play style. I still play him because ranged combat has improved, and because I also carry appropriate melee weapons for the content I run. I find that with 38 dex, 28 str, 300+ hitpoints, and a lot of experience playing the character, I can contribute to most any party. I will say that since the Shroud came out, I melee far more than I used to, though I still have the most fun when someone says "What was THAT?!" after a group of mobs drops around them from many-shot wounding/puncturing. Note that I agree with many of the better-written and well-reasoned posts about improvements we'd still love to see for ranged combat.

The Tempest Ranger who doesn't carry even one bow, or the ranged-spec character who doesn't know when to switch to melee... you're both missing out on some of the fun of the class, and likely failing to contribute all that you can. Whether you pick melee or ranged to focus on, you should certainly take advantage of the benefits for rangers in both types of combat.

[bobbryan2]

By that logic though no non full spell caster would be anything but a TWF.

and since the most effective twf are rangers no one would make anything else.

so the choices for non full spell casters would essentially be

Khopesh DPS Rangers
Rapier DPS Rangers.


imagine how boring that would be


The good part about people playing these weaker builds is that the flaws in the design get examined and talked about, new ideas and suggestions come to the front, and maybe just maybe if enough ideas and suggestions come to the Devs ear (er eyes) they will say... "hey why don't we try this"


Aesop

No...

There are shades of grey, and you're reducing my argument to black and white.

I never said that you should only play the optimal class. If TWF is best, and THF is a little behind, and S&B is way behind that... If I said, playing S&B characters right now is not a good idea... would you immediately assume that I hated THF as well?

Of course not.

Besides, it's not even as clearcut as you spelled it out. Which is a more powerful group? 11 rangers with monk splashes/1 cleric, or 10 rangers with monk splashes/1 cleric/and a TWF 14pal/2 monk with maxed out aura.


Maybe the Paladin won't do as much damage as the rangers... but he's close... and he's got an aura that's helping 11 other people.

Variety isn't going out the door just because people accept that ranged combat isn't powerful.

[johnyBgood]

Hello all, I play on sarlona, alll characters in one guild, Halfling Commando's , I have one toon named Obo who is ranger/rogue an with him I stopped carrying any melee weapons bout two months ago..i only range.
Obo gets plenty of kills too (if you actually care bout kill count) I would not claim him to be uber, but a solid addition to any party.
so yes some rangers do like to shoot stuff

ps he uses light repeaters

[Aesop]

No...

There are shades of grey, and you're reducing my argument to black and white.

I never said that you should only play the optimal class. If TWF is best, and THF is a little behind, and S&B is way behind that... If I said, playing S&B characters right now is not a good idea... would you immediately assume that I hated THF as well?

Of course not.

Besides, it's not even as clearcut as you spelled it out. Which is a more powerful group? 11 rangers with monk splashes/1 cleric, or 10 rangers with monk splashes/1 cleric/and a TWF 14pal/2 monk with maxed out aura.


Maybe the Paladin won't do as much damage as the rangers... but he's close... and he's got an aura that's helping 11 other people.

Variety isn't going out the door just because people accept that ranged combat isn't powerful.

Which is better a group of 10 Monk Splash Tempests a Warchanter TWF Bard and a Cleric... or a Group of 2 Archers 1 THF Barb 4 Monk Tempests 1 S&B Fighter 1 S&B Paladin 1 TWF Rogue 1 Warchanter 1 Wizard 1 Sorceror and 2 Clerics...

Let me guess...


That is not the way the Game is intended to be. No one class/style/spell etc should be so dominant that all others are seen as "useless"

you said

I'm all for threads that ask the devs for upgrades to ranged and S&B... I just don't see why people make ranged characters, keep playing ranged characters knowing their ineffective, and just wishing and hoping that one day they'll be good.

I'll give you the answer. Because if no one plays them and no one speaks up for it the Devs will happily ignore it.

The squeaky wheel gets the Grease and we really need to grease those wheels.

Even you're example had to have every melee as a TWF... not even a THF in the lot... That to me says a lot.

Other people don't have those perfectionist vibes I do.. so I get by with it. It really only ticks me off when we baaarely fail a quest and had a few substandard builds that really weren't pulling their weight at all. Normally I give a smirk and move on.

What's your character list like I wonder? I mean if you are a perfectionist then do you ever even bother trying to play any of these so called substandard builds... something with a shield maybe? I play them because I want to know first hand what the problems are so that I can try to come up with suggestions to improve on them. Your suggestion here is to not play them...


so while no its not black and white it is pretty charcoal gray in this whole thing.

Try making the gimp builds to the best of your ability and see if you can find the places to help them.

Telling people they shouldn't play Archers is counter productive to getting the problem resolved.

Aesop