The Tempest Zealot

[Balkas]

I know people's mouths are already watering at the the thought of combining the attack speed boosts of Tempest and Zeal, so I figured it's about time to start discussing the right way to go about building the 14 Paladin/6 Ranger.

It's going to be a build very tight on feats and AP, but I think the benefits may be worth it.

The Dwarven Tempest Zealot

Why Dwarf?

Pros:

Well, I figure that I'm going to want to get to 17 dexterity somehow for Greater Two Weapon Fighting. With 6 levels of Ranger, you get 2 ranks of dex enhancements. You're at least going to be able to hit 24 Dex, maybe more depending on where your base dex is sitting. Without evasion, you're not restricted to any particular armor, so I feel that the Dragontouched Full Plate seems like something swell to wear (Plus I don't have any full plate wearers, so I figure I may as well have one). 3 Levels of Dwarven Armor Mastery + 2 Levels of Fighter Armor Mastery given by Daggertooth's belt + 1 increased Max Dex Bonus for Heavy armor from Defender of Siberys II gives the Dragontouched Full Plate a MDB of 7, right where you'll be at.

Free Dwarven Axe proficiency is also dandy.

Cons:

That Charisma penalty hurts, especially in a build that's going to be starved for points (Did I mention this is a 32 point build? It is ). On the other side of the coin, at least they have the Dwarven Spell Resistance line to make up for some of the saves, but I'm going to guess that the saves will be ok regardless and AP are going to be tight.

Starting Stats:

STR: 16
DEX: 15
CON: 14
INT: 10
WIS: 8
CHA: 13

Ending Stats (I'll try to keep the tome use reasonable):

STR: 30 = 16 Base + 5 Level Ups + 1 Tome + 6 Item + 2 Rams' Might
DEX: 24 = 15 Base + 2 Favor Tome + 1 Enhancement + 6 Item
CON: 24 = 14 Base + 2 Enhancement + 6 Item + 2 Exceptional (Tier 3 of 2nd Mineral II DAxe)
INT: 10 (With the hopes of being 13 after a +3 Tome)
WIS: 14 = 8 Base + 6 Item
CHA: 22 = 13 Base + 1 Tome + 2 Enhancement + 6 Item

Strength will hit 33 and Constitution will hit 25 when in Improved Defensive Stance.

Progression:

The order of the feats in the later levels could probably use some tweaking, but I figure people would want to obtain Defender of Siberys as quickly as possible

1) Ranger - Dodge, FE: Undead (or Giants)
2) Ranger
3) Ranger - Mobility
4) Ranger
5) Ranger - FE: Evil Outsider
6) Ranger - Spring Attack
7) Paladin
8) Paladin
9) Paladin - Improved Critical: Slashing (Change out for Power Attack once 2 Mineral II Dwarven Axes are made)
10) Paladin
11) Paladin
12) Paladin - Shield Mastery (Swap out for Combat Expertise if you're ever lucky enough to grab a +3 Int Tome)
13) Paladin
14) Paladin
15) Paladin - Greater Two Weapon Fighting
16) Paladin
17) Paladin
18) Paladin - Toughness
19) Paladin
20) Paladin

Enhancements:

Dwarven Armor Mastery III = 12 AP Total
Defender of Siberys II = 6
Bulwark III = 6
Resistance III = 6
Courage I = 1
Focus I = 1
Armor Boost I = 1
Paladin Toughness II = 3
Charisma II = 6
Constitution II = 6
Dexterity I = 2
Divine Might I = 1
Divine Sacrifice II = 3
Exalted Smite III = 6
Extra Smite IV = 10
Dwarven Spell Defense II = 3
Lay on Hands I = 1
Dwarven Axe Attack I = 2
Tempest I = 4

80 Total AP

AC

10 Base
15 Armor
1 Alchemical
7 Dex
5 Protection
4 Aura
4 Insight
2 Chaosgardes Dodge
1 Feat Dodge
3 Chattering Ring/DT Armor Dodge
2 Tempest Shield

54 Unbuffed. Who knows if this will be good at Mod 9, but I think it's a decent start.

1 Haste Potion
3 Barkskin Potion Natural
2 Shield Clicky
3 Improved Defensive Stance Dodge

64 Self Buffed

2 Recitation
2 Full Barkskin
4 Inspire Heroics

72 Fully Buffed

And for turtling purposes with a little luck...

5 Combat Expertise
3 +5 Heavy Shield

80 AC

Hopefully this will still be somewhat usable in the future.

Saves

Fort/Reflex/Will
9/4/4 - 14 Paladin Levels
5/5/2 - 6 Ranger Levels
6/6/6 - Divine Grace
4/4/4 - Aura
7/7/2 - Stats
4/4/4 - +4 Resistance Item
1/1/1 - +1 Ritual

36/31/26 Unbuffed
38/33/28 Against Spells

HP

140 - 14 Paladin
48 - 6 Ranger
20 - Heroic Durability
140 - +7 Constitution Bonus
22 - Toughness
22 - Minos Legens
10 - Gianthold Favor
20 - Paladin Toughness II
45 - GS Tier 3 Item

467

487 While in Improved Defensive Stance

Hopefully those will be enough.

*Crosses fingers*

What do you guys think? I'd love to see what you guys are toying around with.

[DaveyCrockett]

I think that when you see the Ranger Capstone, you'll understand why this build won't be nearly as popular as you predict.

[deadkitty]

Eat a +3 char tome and respec for Devine Might 2

[Balkas]

I think that when you see the Ranger Capstone, you'll understand why this build won't be nearly as popular as you predict.

This very well may be true. Even the Tempest III enhancement makes the 14 Paladin/6 Ranger look less attractive.

I like Paladins though, and there's gotta be someone to give those Rangers the aura .

Plus it's more fun to speculate this kind of stuff than what the capstone is going to be.

Eat a +3 char tome and respec for Devine Might 2

I'd probably drop Dwarven Axe Attack II or Dwarven Toughness II for Divine Might II, depending on how things go. I tried to not throw a whole bunch of tomes into the build on purpose. If you really wanted to, you could set the starting Dex at 14 and hold out for a +3 Dex Tome to get your prereqs for GTWF which would let you spread some more points around.

[Alexander_Illusioni]

I would add one more to Int to start, to have a reasonable shot at 13 int, that way you only need to get a +2 int tome, which are unbound, vs a +3 bound int tome. This safe guards you in case +3 tomes will be bound, and +2's are fairly easy to come by. You could drop charisma by one and use a +2 charisma tome as well to balance that out. Good luck Balkas!

[Balkas]

I would add one more to Int to start, to have a reasonable shot at 13 int, that way you only need to get a +2 int tome, which are unbound, vs a +3 bound int tome. This safe guards you in case +3 tomes will be bound, and +2's are fairly easy to come by. You could drop charisma by one and use a +2 charisma tome as well to balance that out. Good luck Balkas!

Definitely valid points.

I really don't think I'd be using CE that much being a Paladin without extend. I just figured that Combat Expertise is the more useful of the three feats that you could take to fulfill the prerequisites of the Defender of Siberys (Tower Shield and Shield Mastery being the other 2).

Being able to grab Divine Might II with a +3 Charisma tome is also nice.

I'm not really certain if I like this build or the 18 Paladin/2 Monk more, so we'll see which one I end up playing. It certainly seems interesting though.

Thanks

[Blahish]

I would add one more to Int to start, to have a reasonable shot at 13 int, that way you only need to get a +2 int tome, which are unbound, vs a +3 bound int tome. This safe guards you in case +3 tomes will be bound, and +2's are fairly easy to come by. You could drop charisma by one and use a +2 charisma tome as well to balance that out. Good luck Balkas!

We will be seeing +3 Unbound tomes in the near future so might not be too hard to acquire this tome.

I was looking forward to make a Tempest Zeal Paladin :O this build looks really solid. Have fun playing him.

[Desteria]

aye I also have planign for a tempest zeal pally 20% or 19% tecnicaly attack haste is HUGE.. thats allmost stacking hase with it self!!!

I got to say the dwarf part does hurt the cha Wich hurts divine might wich is RTEALLLLLY strong on a TWF with crazzy attack speed, a human is another option use the bonus feat for kopeshes would also free up a lot of AP's but dwarf is strong fro this build... I would prolly say the heck with AC on mine and just be wirling death...
ALSO you will have dwaven defender options fro PRC as well and it might fit better then defender of syib dependign it;s pre recs, and then you could be a Tempest/Knight of the chalace/Defender!!!!!!!

And frankly the ranger cap stone has to be purty amazing to be better then the options here this is a strong build option.

[maddmatt70]

It would be interesting, although I have a feeling it would be difficult to do, to try to eventually be a tempest 1/knight of chalice 2/stalwart defender 3(will not be available for dwarves by mod9 maybe mod 10). Dwarf is not a very good choice for paladin really unless you intend to be a defensive oriented paladin. I would recommend other races - not warforged either, but one of the other 4.

[Desteria]

It would be interesting, although I have a feeling it would be difficult to do, to try to eventually be a tempest 1/knight of chalice 2/stalwart defender 3(will not be available for dwarves by mod9 maybe mod 10). Dwarf is not a very good choice for paladin really unless you intend to be a defensive oriented paladin. I would recommend other races - not warforged either, but one of the other 4.

dwarf does have the advatage of free D-axe wich is esaly the seocnd most damaging GReensteel weapon Kopeshes first OR tied with full dwarf AP's.. any race other then human is nto goign to have a feat for kopeshes in this build type most likly, so i see dwarf as a godo option stilll....

However Drow get AMAZING stat bonuses for a TWF Pally, one of the few melle types that where a 28 pt drow has the ability to coem out ahead of a 32pt somethign else!!!!
Also they sinergize well with Pircign weapons wich we all know are the best for Efect weapons with all teh crit range dependent specal effect avalible on a 18-20 weapon +racial encments for it... you can actuyl get +3 to hit with short swords on a pally!!!!
A drow For eg could be....

STR: 16 : 10 points
DEX: 15 : 5 points
CON: 12 : 6 points
INT: 11 : 1 point
WIS: 8 : free
CHA: 16 : 6 points

This was based on aimign for similar stats to your targets, con is a littel lower cha is a lot higher, high enough to get divine might 2 with out a +2 tome or any tome even!
A +1 int tome at levle 2 give you a lot of extra skills to.
basicaly all 3 of your drow bonus stats are places you want to spend at leats a few points, and the penalty stat is one that you cna live with not spending extra point to buy off, ie purty much always just spend 6 points on con no mater the race, but getitng to a 13 cha on a dwarf was hurty heck your dwarf was actuyl loseing groud his racial + sta was grantign 2 build points BUT his racial - sta was costign you 3 build points, with the drow as above your gaining 9 build points from your + stats and only loseing 2 build points.... 28+7-2= 33 point build baby the dwarf was 32+2-3=31 point...
Note the drow comes out even further ahead if you was 16 startign dex and pull one point out of int for it.


Drow Paladins for the WIN.

[EinarMal]

I think you might be over valuing attacking even faster. I still think Ranger 18/X is probably better than Paladin 14/Ranger 6.

Even if you allow that the paladin variant would be 10% more DPS, and that really depends on what you are fighting (FE vs. Evil Outsiders) etc....the loss of evasion is huge.

In a lot of cases Evasion > 10% more DPS. Also a lot of the time it really wouldn't be 10% more DPS.

Also, it is possible you will see items with sacred/competence bonus of 5% or something.

The item thing would really diminish the build, if you could get something with a 5% competence bonus to attack speed (seems possible) then you really cut into the power of the build.

Seems kind of risky to me to depend on these two things stacking (and there never being any other way of getting those types of bonus).

Really all they have to do is change items already in the game to competence and you are reduced in power compared to just going more Paladin or Ranger. It is certainly not a bad combo given what we know, but this is one where you are WIDE OPEN to being reduced in power and the changes are not unreasonable or unlikely.

Personally I would go Paladin 18/Monk 2 or Ranger 18/Monk 1/Rogue 1 for a better end game TWF build.

Or if you want something off the wall...

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=168761

[Balkas]

I definitely agree that evasion is sweet. I don't have any toons without it .

I'm definitely debating whether to play this build or to play the 18 Paladin/2 Monk.

Somebody has get to keep Full Plate futures up, though .

[EinarMal]

I definitely agree that evasion is sweet. I don't have any toons without it .

I'm definitely debating whether to play this build or to play the 18 Paladin/2 Monk.

Somebody has get to keep Full Plate futures up, though .

I would go with the 18/2, I would put money on a 5% competence item existing at some point.

[Balkas]

Drow Paladins for the WIN.

It *would* be nice to free up all those AP.

I still think I like the benefits of going dwarf though.

It would be interesting, although I have a feeling it would be difficult to do, to try to eventually be a tempest 1/knight of chalice 2/stalwart defender 3(will not be available for dwarves by mod9 maybe mod 10). Dwarf is not a very good choice for paladin really unless you intend to be a defensive oriented paladin. I would recommend other races - not warforged either, but one of the other 4.

This guy seems to have pretty good offense . I think the lack of Charisma is more than made up for with the Armor Mastery and Dwarven Axes.

[Desteria]

I think you might be over valuing attacking even faster. I still think Ranger 18/X is probably better than Paladin 14/Ranger 6.

Even if you allow that the paladin variant would be 10% more DPS, and that really depends on what you are fighting (FE vs. Evil Outsiders) etc....the loss of evasion is huge.

In a lot of cases Evasion > 10% more DPS. Also a lot of the time it really wouldn't be 10% more DPS.

Also, it is possible you will see items with sacred/competence bonus of 5% or something.

The item thing would really diminish the build, if you could get something with a 5% competence bonus to attack speed (seems possible) then you really cut into the power of the build.

Seems kind of risky to me to depend on these two things stacking (and there never being any other way of getting those types of bonus).

Really all they have to do is change items already in the game to competence and you are reduced in power compared to just going more Paladin or Ranger. It is certainly not a bad combo given what we know, but this is one where you are WIDE OPEN to being reduced in power and the changes are not unreasonable or unlikely.

Personally I would go Paladin 18/Monk 2 or Ranger 18/Monk 1/Rogue 1 for a better end game TWF build.

Or if you want something off the wall...

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=168761

It;s not all just teh attack Speed Pallys get a LOT of bonuses that are Flat numbers and work with both hands DF/DM2 = +7 damage per hand, DS hits off BOTH hands when TWF I haev personaly tested this on my 16 pally.... when i get a chance to test against some tougher targets i'll confirm if ES does the same.... that basicaly makes up for the FE 6 rangers get +6 FE damaeg to 2 targets +7 form pally stuff thats +13 1 MORE then a ranger yess they ahve less targets BUT the pally with basicaly NO extra cost could be a Knight of the chalance and add a TONE mroe against Evil outsiders which si currently the singlemost important bag guy to DPS in the game and Frankly i think shroud will continue to be a often run raid well in to level 20 because the versitility it;s itemes offer is just huge for every character you make...

Also i'm not sayign Evation is NOT HUGE it IS.... but this should be a BIG DPS build imo more then any strait ranger could get ATM, and basicaly even with future tempests it;s a matter of 10% haste VR's teh 'extrta' attacks wich ads up to more damage...

[EinarMal]

It;s not all just teh attack Speed Pallys get a LOT of bonuses that are Flat numbers and work with both hands DF/DM2 = +7 damage per hand, DS hits off BOTH hands when TWF I haev personaly tested this on my 16 pally.... when i get a chance to test against some tougher targets i'll confirm if ES does the same.... that basicaly makes up for the FE 6 rangers get +6 FE damaeg to 2 targets +7 form pally stuff thats +13 1 MORE then a ranger yess they ahve less targets BUT the pally with basicaly NO extra cost could be a Knight of the chalance and add a TONE mroe against Evil outsiders which si currently the singlemost important bag guy to DPS in the game and Frankly i think shroud will continue to be a often run raid well in to level 20 because the versitility it;s itemes offer is just huge for every character you make...

Also i'm not sayign Evation is NOT HUGE it IS.... but this should be a BIG DPS build imo more then any strait ranger could get ATM, and basicaly even with future tempests it;s a matter of 10% haste VR's teh 'extrta' attacks wich ads up to more damage...

Ranger's get constant bonus, they do not rely on reliably using the special attacks buttons whenever they are available (no one does this perfectly). You also avoid mobs moving and spoiling those attacks (still go on timer), and them misfiring 10% of the time and just not working.

If you compare it to Paladin 18/Monk 2, all it takes is some kind of 5% competence bonus from items/ bard songs (this is very likely a future warchanter song) and you lose a lot of the benefit of the Ranger levels.

It is an ok build and compares fairly well with Ranger 18 or Paladin 18 but it is not really better to me (my opinion).

[Cold_Stele]

Good news - you will get the +3 Int tome at some point for CE (my money says they drop unbound in mod 9).

Bad news - you're going to have to keep IC-Slash for your Holy Avenger.

You'll have to drop Toughness then at some point (Murphy's Law says it'll be right at the time they fix the Minos bug).

[jakeelala]

It;s not all just teh attack Speed Pallys get a LOT of bonuses that are Flat numbers and work with both hands DF/DM2 = +7 damage per hand, DS hits off BOTH hands when TWF I haev personaly tested this on my 16 pally.... when i get a chance to test against some tougher targets i'll confirm if ES does the same.... that basicaly makes up for the FE 6 rangers get +6 FE damaeg to 2 targets +7 form pally stuff thats +13 1 MORE then a ranger yess they ahve less targets BUT the pally with basicaly NO extra cost could be a Knight of the chalance and add a TONE mroe against Evil outsiders which si currently the singlemost important bag guy to DPS in the game and Frankly i think shroud will continue to be a often run raid well in to level 20 because the versitility it;s itemes offer is just huge for every character you make...

Also i'm not sayign Evation is NOT HUGE it IS.... but this should be a BIG DPS build imo more then any strait ranger could get ATM, and basicaly even with future tempests it;s a matter of 10% haste VR's teh 'extrta' attacks wich ads up to more damage...

i have a lvl 13 dual wielding Drow pally and I double ES crit for 200-240 on EACH HIT all the time. You just have to throw the exalted smite at the right time. It's like rogue assasinate but they don't a save, but I 1 shot elite end game mobs in quests all the time with it, people are like "WT-F?!"

[Borror0]

Bad news - you're going to have to keep IC-Slash for your Holy Avenger.

Hopefully, that will never happen.

[Desteria]

Ranger's get constant bonus, they do not rely on reliably using the special attacks buttons whenever they are available (no one does this perfectly). You also avoid mobs moving and spoiling those attacks (still go on timer), and them misfiring 10% of the time and just not working.

If you compare it to Paladin 18/Monk 2, all it takes is some kind of 5% competence bonus from items/ bard songs (this is very likely a future warchanter song) and you lose a lot of the benefit of the Ranger levels.

It is an ok build and compares fairly well with Ranger 18 or Paladin 18 but it is not really better to me (my opinion).

Well When they anooce stackgin HASTE items or warchanter songs I'll change my mind...
For the DPS comparison to get them even BEFORE the extra 10% haste you realyl just need the longer term stuff DF/DM not the clicky attack they are gravy on top... P.S. Dule holy sword spells rapier+SS dubble ES crit is FUN, got on my palyl today in shroud 350+ base dmaage each crit + holy + burst + 8 points sneka on both it was a thing of bueaty