Ranger: Tempest (Preview)

[Tanka]

talking about a active component of temp II, which would be on par with other PRE's, not the capstone. and they are supposed to be the DPS class against their FE's no?

Other than Running with the Devils, name a quest in the Vale or later that is not utterly filled with their FEs (Undead, Giants, Evil Outsiders).

[Yaga_Nub]

What needs to happen is that NO ONE should be able to train STWF because it's a made up feat.

PrEs shouldn't be class-specific at all.

I agree with both of your statements Tanka.

[Tanka]

I agree with both of your statements Tanka.

The edited statement is also true, but if it's going to show up, it should show up for everyone.

[Borror0]

I agree with both of your statements Tanka.

LOL, well said.

[Angelus_dead]

Other than Running with the Devils, name a quest in the Vale or later that is not utterly filled with their FEs (Undead, Giants, Evil Outsiders).

Kobolds?

No, but seriously your question hardly even matters. If mod9 introduces a quest full of Epic Paragon Halflings, rangers can quickly drop one of their 4-5 favorites to instantly become uber in that battle. The only way the devs can avoid this is to create the Mephit Invasion raid...

Or change FE so you don't have the same bonus against all of them.

[kingfisher]

Other than Running with the Devils, name a quest in the Vale or later that is not utterly filled with their FEs (Undead, Giants, Evil Outsiders).

so? is that the rangers fault that the baddies they choose to hate are the ones trying to bring down stromreach? there are lots of other FE's a ranger COULD select but just dont.

imo the temp line needs a active component, so if not FE, then what? more speed? maybe a defensive boost? i guess nothing is the plan and that is up to the devs, but i for one like the boosts/short term powers and will be a bit dissapointed if there is not one involved in all the lines.

[Borror0]

Or change FE so you don't have the same bonus against all of them.

Or create with more variety in?

[Tanka]

Kobolds?

No, but seriously your question hardly even matters. If mod9 introduces a quest full of Epic Paragon Halflings, rangers can quickly drop one of their 4-5 favorites to instantly become uber in that battle. The only way the devs can avoid this is to create the Mephit Invasion raid...

Or change FE so you don't have the same bonus against all of them.

Admittedly, I did immediately think of Kobold/Monastery, so the point isn't as effective as one as I had hoped.

The last statement is, of course, true. Which means Rangers would be spending lots of time with Fred to get the right bonuses against the right monster types.

[Tanka]

so? is that the rangers fault that the baddies they choose to hate are the ones trying to bring down stromreach? there are lots of other FE's a ranger COULD select but just dont.

Oh, no, there are lots of monster types Turbine could be using to upset the balance or whatnot. Instead, it's EO, EO, EO, EO, oh and a few undead. Yaaaaaawn.

[kingfisher]

Oh, no, there are lots of monster types Turbine could be using to upset the balance or whatnot. Instead, it's EO, EO, EO, EO, oh and a few undead. Yaaaaaawn.

lol dont forget giants, giants, giants and giants. mod 9 will bring more EO, more undead, more dragons, and more giants. you say yawn, i say swing swing swing swing swing swing

[Tanka]

lol dont forget giants, giants, giants and giants. mod 9 will bring more EO, more undead, more dragons, and more giants. you say yawn, i say swing swing swing swing swing swing

What giants? Oh, you mean the ones you mostly run past in Prey?

M9 isn't continuing the Reaver storyline. It's continuing Shavarath. Which means EOs galore.

[bobbryan2]

Other than Running with the Devils, name a quest in the Vale or later that is not utterly filled with their FEs (Undead, Giants, Evil Outsiders).

Ritual Sacrifice, Kobold, Monastery, coalescence chamber, Rainbow has a good mix, but a lot of EO.

The ones that do: all three raids, Spiders, Prey, Sor'jek...

I don't think you made the point you were trying to make, actually. And it's one I agree with... but you made it very poorly.

[maddmatt70]

After reading this thread, ive made some changes to my build plans.... i think....

I was going to be making a WF 2monk/18kensai fighter (for use as intimidating with some decent dps/ac/evasion). I had also contemplated a 1 fighter/1monk/18ranger, or a 2 fighter/18 barbarian.

Going through the details of the builds is pretty tedious, so I just summarized the results in table format (ill give the damage bonuses though... most people could back out the builds from there). Weapon used is a greensteel kopesh in all cases (without effects included). The kensai fighter and the barb were calculated using 5 main/5 offhand attacks. The ranger was calculated using 5 main/6 offhand attacks (just a guess at stwf). 10% was then added to the rangers numbers.

DAMAGE BONUSES (incl str/ehn/rages/favored/weapon/feats/rams might,power attack)
main/offhand
ranger (against non favored, no power attack)...........................+20/15
fighter (no power attack)........................................... ............+26/21
ranger (with power attack vs non favored).................................+28/23
fighter (with power attack)........................................... .........+34/29
barbarian (no power attack, not including vicious effects)............+35/25
ranger (against favored, no power attack).................................+33/28
barbarian (with power attack, not including vicious effects)..........+35/25
ranger (vs favored, with power attack)................................+40/+36
barbarian (with power attack, including vicious effects)................+35/25


DECISION FACTORS SUMMARY
damage numbers assume hiting on a 2, confirmining crits on a 1
Ac is self buffed only,
AB = attack bonus at lvl 16 with GH and +2 competence,
Intim is raid buffed (includes bard song and GH)

.................................................. .......................1 round avg dps....AC.......AB....Intim
ranger (against non favored, no power attack)............................431.....64.......37.....52
fighter (no power attack)........................................... ............496.....58.......41.....58
ranger (with power attack vs non favored).................................562.....64.......29.....52
barbarian (no power attack, not including vicious effects)..............581.... n/a.....47.....52
fighter (with power attack)........................................... ..........612......59......33.....58
ranger (against favored, no power attack)...................................644.....67......39,....52
barbarian (with power attack, not including vicious effects)............721.....n/a......39....52
ranger (vs favored, with power attack)...................................767....6 7......31....52
barbarian (with power attack, including vicious effects)..................861.....n/a-....47....52



Currently I'm leaning towards the ranger as my intimidating tank, whereas before I was favoring the fighter. The ranger will have a fewer HP, but I ran out of time to add in a hp column.

It does seem to me, that the ranger remains a power house with the recent changes. basically, the ranger does more damage then the fighter vs favored, but the fighter wins vs non-favored. the barbarian can really dish it out, but is also going to take a serious pounding.

Thank you for doing the statistics. Hopefully this will not get lost in all these pages of meaningless gibberish.

[Yaga_Nub]

Or create with more variety in?

Or make FEs unchangable so that you actually have to make the same hard choices as you do to MC or put that left over skill point that you have each level into swim or concentration.

[gfunk]

Thank you for doing the statistics. Hopefully this will not get lost in all these pages of meaningless gibberish.

couple mistakes in my post from earlier.. i missed out a total of +2 attack bonus , and didnt add in the +3 to intim on the fighter (due to kensai), and didnt add a row for evaluating power surge. I dont know how long it will be... if its a minute like the acrobats "showtime" then it will be nice... another 20 second boost would just be annoying.

[EinarMal]

couple mistakes in my post from earlier.. i missed out a total of +2 attack bonus , and didnt add in the +3 to intim on the fighter (due to kensai), and didnt add a row for evaluating power surge. I dont know how long it will be... if its a minute like the acrobats "showtime" then it will be nice... another 20 second boost would just be annoying.

Is the tempest speed boost in there? Also how are you factoring STWF?

[maddmatt70]

couple mistakes in my post from earlier.. i missed out a total of +2 attack bonus , and didnt add in the +3 to intim on the fighter (due to kensai), and didnt add a row for evaluating power surge. I dont know how long it will be... if its a minute like the acrobats "showtime" then it will be nice... another 20 second boost would just be annoying.

Yeah I see a couple of little editing errors as well, but thanks regardless you get the gist.

I know the paladin would be tough to calculate what with smites and divine sacrifices difficulty to calculate, but if you got the time you should throw that one in the hopper at least without smites and ds.

[Angelus_dead]

What needs to happen is that any TWF-capable character should be able to train STWF. Tempest Rangers just happen to get it for free if they stay true to L18

No. What should happen is that there is no STWF at all. Leave TWF characters at the relative attack rate they have now, and use other feats to equalize or differentiate the fighting styles in the future.

[Cold_Stele]

No. What should happen is that there is no STWF at all. Leave TWF characters at the relative attack rate they have now, and use other feats to equalize or differentiate the fighting styles in the future.

True, but it's too late for that right?

STWF is a bad idea, but if it's coming, shouldn't everyone who meets the prereqs be able to buy it?

[Angelus_dead]

I don't think you made the point you were trying to make, actually. And it's one I agree with... but you made it very poorly.

Part of the trouble elucidating the problem is that it's obscured by the frequent unimportance of hitpoint damage as opposed to con damage.

Favored Enemy mainly serves to improve hp damage (although it also ensures Wounding breaks DR), and hp damage is mainly important against hard bosses. So instead of asking about quest mobs in general, it's more accurate to ask what dangerous high-level bosses have a creature type other than Outsider, Undead, or Giant. (Scorpion guy is, but you'd rather not DPS him anyhow)