Haggle Bard - Mississippi Queen

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

I am building the Version II of this to primarily be a healer. Is it too much of a disadvantage to use a rapier and shield vs THF with masters touch. I't probably more of a favor call for being in groups will be healing, and using wands most of the time. If going that route is it worth using the feats for weapon focus piercing, and improved crit, and PA? The HP are kind of low so defenitly wont be on the front lines. What do you think? Stick to slashing weapons and THF?

I designed the melee version of Mississippee in such a way that you could go any weapon type you like, by just swapping out the two melee feats.. Considering the dex dump however, this build is much better designed to go THF or "sword and board."

I do not prefer the THF feats here, as additional glancing blows gain too much attention. This bard messes with who she wants, when she wants. You are in no way a killing machine, you are not looking for top kill count. This build's specialty is multitasking: healing, single target DPS and surprisingly effective, albeit highly focused CC.

Using a shield is far more effective nowadays than it used to be. Back in the day, I used it in the early levels as my devotion item. Early levels shields have value, they are simply ignored by the majority because they dont have that DPS factor. Again this build is going for handicaps (stat damage/curse/cripple/anything that slows down or handicaps the enemy. Instakill weapons such as banishing, smiting, vorpol etc are also nice but specialized in nature). Bottom line, today's shield choices are far more varied and effective than they used to be, so nothing wrong having a sword and board option on your bard.

I would stick to THF style, with a single handed weapon/shield option, especially if you farm or craft some of the niftier shields.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Hadn't heard back from anyone so I figured I would dig into the planner export you posted. There seems to be something wrong with your skill ranks. Somehow you have 25 Ranks in Balance when you should only be able to have 23. The total number of ranks spent is 151 which is correct. Not sure what happened, but I am curious where you would re-allocate them. As posted minus the discrepancy, the main skills are maxed minus the following (with ranks at 20 in brackets), I am assuming you will add one of the points to concentration, where would you place the last one? (I know for those jumping on me it should be based on my playstyle, I just want to see what Leslie would have picked personally).

Concentration(22), Diplomacy(18), or Jump(15)?

I know in the original Mississippi Queen you had Diplomacy capped with Jump at 12 instead of 15, and Tumble only at 1. What made you decide to change the original stat layout?

Wondering what version of the builder you are using... the original build was spot on when I re-entered skills as you can see. Enhancements however needed a few updates.

To answer your question for your specific build, I'd double up on concentration/balance if you could, if not I'd go jump. Jump is still nice, but its slightly less important on this melee bard, as you are more likely to be healing "on the inside" than most other Spellsinger bards you are likely to see.

Jump: Im more likely to jump over front end mobs on my CC bards, as I'm looking to handicap the clerics/casters/bowmen first, as they tend to stay in the backfield. Hence the slight bump to jump.

Concentration/Balance: got a slight boost in the modern day Miss, due to increased abilities of current mobs.

[Untitled]

Wondering what version of the builder you are using... the original build was spot on when I re-entered skills as you can see. Enhancements however needed a few updates.

To answer your question for your specific build, I'd double up on concentration/balance if you could, if not I'd go jump. Jump is still nice, but its slightly less important on this melee bard, as you are more likely to be healing "on the inside" than most other Spellsinger bards you are likely to see.

Jump: Im more likely to jump over front end mobs on my CC bards, as I'm looking to handicap the clerics/casters/bowmen first, as they tend to stay in the backfield. Hence the slight bump to jump.

Concentration/Balance: got a slight boost in the modern day Miss, due to increased abilities of current mobs.

Hey Leslie,

Using current version but found the rank issue by counting manually as I couldn't enter toon in planner. If you look at the first build in Post #1, you have put 25 ranks in Balance, afaik this is not possible and the maximum is 23, you should not be able to put in a planner as it is currently posted.

If I wanted to roll a version of Mississippi and am interested in the haggle side of things more then melee, would you suggest the first build or the melee oriented build? I see you posted the original queen in one of your recent posts, is this to show differences, or is this build still viable over the two posted in start of thread?

Thanks for your time!

-U

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Hey Leslie,

Using current version but found the rank issue by counting manually as I couldn't enter toon in planner. If you look at the first build in Post #1, you have put 25 ranks in Balance, afaik this is not possible and the maximum is 23, you should not be able to put in a planner as it is currently posted.

If I wanted to roll a version of Mississippi and am interested in the haggle side of things more then melee, would you suggest the first build or the melee oriented build? I see you posted the original queen in one of your recent posts, is this to show differences, or is this build still viable over the two posted in start of thread?

Thanks for your time!

-U

Well the problem with the original build today is it was built when Spellsinger I PrE was the only option. The Spellsinger II build in the main OP has both Spellsinger PrEs, and is much closer to what I play today.

As far as haggle goes, go balztothewall, I did. Just ensure you build enough healing and CC into the build, and play the heck out of it. This is dependent on you not playing with sloppy-joe zerg types that blindly run ahead and could care less in what your bard's blue bar can do. My Spellsinger build was designed from day 1 to take advantage of its CC and healing abilities and can still handicap the enemies just like it did when I first built it.

The Spellsingers I have created are for those who consider crowd control an art form.

[TheFantasticBard]

spell pen. bard spells are mostly useless in endgame anyway.

I wouldnt say that, Bards can get to a Dc 46-49 Enchantment endgame (not useless)

And for spellpen, they also can get to a 1d20+44 Spell Pen Roll too, again not useless.

How you might ask?

DC Chart// 10(base)+6(lvl)+21(cha mod)+4(feat)+2(item)+1(song)+2(capstone)=46+((2(Fv S)+1(alch House D pots)))

Spell Pen// 20(lvl)+9(pastlifes)+4(feat)+3(ap)+3(item)+1(song) +2(ESOAP or Alchemical Wep)+1(ship buff)+1(cant remember but i know its somewhere)= (+44 to spellpen) and then if you have a FvS in the group, add another 2 to that because of there debuff

And to top it off, ive CCed every epic in the game (other than EOOB due to spell pen, which im rectifying with pastlifes) and some, ive both CCed and Healed them. (again as a bard). so useless, i think not.

[amoraenk]

DC Chart// 10(base)+6(lvl)+21(cha mod)+4(feat)+2(item)+1(song)+2(capstone)=46+((2(Fv S)+1(alch House D pots))).

21 cha mod. How? I'm really curious about that.

[voodoogroves]

21 cha mod. How? I'm really curious about that.

What is that? 52?

18 base + 1 racial + 3 bard + 5 levels + 2 capstone = 29

+7 item
+3 exceptional
+2 yugo pot
+2 house D pot
+2 boat
+4 tome
+1 litany

50

Hmm ... what am I forgetting ... abishai cookies or other temp boosts? store pots?

[amoraenk]

House D pot is used for the enchantment DC : 21 cha mod +...... +1(alch House D pots).
48 is what i think...
you can have +4 cha, +4 int, and +4 wis if you consume all the colors of Abishai Gingerbread Cookies (10 min)...
Or +2 with cha DDO store pots (10 min)
But really... If you need to use that, it would be a proof that bard DCs need to be improved for the endgame...

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

As I always do traditionally, in this thread, I'm calling out to all fellow bards, countrymen/women, and friends, to join our guild this coming Memorial Day, to honor our brave men and women of the US Armed Forces and/or other friendly nations who gave it all in the fight for freedom and human dignity.

Tyrs Paladium's Annual Multi-Server Memorial Day Celebration

TO BE HONORED: Men and women, past and present, from the United States Armed Forces, as well as those soldiers from all nations who fought with us, side by side, who also gave their all, in their fight for liberty.

INVITED: The entire DDO community. To those on any server, that would like to give thanks and pay their respects with fellow DDO military, family, and friends. I will ask if anyone has lost family and/or friends to list them. There will be a few short videos that we'll ask you to play through your browser, so brush up on your cut/paste skills. We will bow our heads for one minute of silence. This will be a solemn affair, so please respect our wishes.

TIME: Monday May 28, 2012. 9PM Eastern sharp. Figure the entire event will last approximately 30-45 minutes.

PLACE: We will meet on Ghallanda, in House Deneith, inside the Temple of the Sovereign Host.

See you there. - Mississippee

[wonko_the_sane]

Leslie, I just capped my bard (using your Spellsinger II build) and will soon be taking it into the Forgotten Realms.

I just know you've looked at all the new stuff coming tommorrow and have plans for Mississippee. What are your suggestions for the build going onwards over level 20?

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Leslie, I just capped my bard (using your Spellsinger II build) and will soon be taking it into the Forgotten Realms.

I just know you've looked at all the new stuff coming tommorrow and have plans for Mississippee. What are your suggestions for the build going onwards over level 20?

You're right I have! Glad you are having fun with the build, and thank you for kind words.

Mississippee will look to preserve what made her such a fun build to play, as are all bards as we fit epic destinies into our builds. Mississippee will have more haggle due to Allure, more CC due to Majesty.

Fatesinger is going offer very sexy options to the Mississippee build, and give us a series of different angles we can incorporate into our builds/playstyles.

Most bards will be not only "ok" but much more useful and important to have in party.

Of course, you will always have your detractors, who will not "let you" CC, will not wait for buffs. Thats all good... because you can control who you run with. In many pugs, if you are vocal, can educate the group how they can best utilize your buffs/cc. Its an important step that too many bards neglect.

As soon as I play with this a bit on live, I'll post what I'll be going with.

[wonko_the_sane]

As soon as I play with this a bit on live, I'll post what I'll be going with.

antici............................................ .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ....pation.

[muffinlad]

You're right I have! Glad you are having fun with the build, and thank you for kind words.

Mississippee will look to preserve what made her such a fun build to play, as are all bards as we fit epic destinies into our builds. Mississippee will have more haggle due to Allure, more CC due to Majesty.

Fatesinger is going offer very sexy options to the Mississippee build, and give us a series of different angles we can incorporate into our builds/playstyles.

Most bards will be not only "ok" but much more useful and important to have in party.

Of course, you will always have your detractors, who will not "let you" CC, will not wait for buffs. Thats all good... because you can control who you run with. In many pugs, if you are vocal, can educate the group how they can best utilize your buffs/cc. Its an important step that too many bards neglect.

As soon as I play with this a bit on live, I'll post what I'll be going with.

A note in the Update seemed to cap haggle at 50% REDUCTION and 50% of item sold....what numbers does this impact for a Haggle bard?

muffinhaggle

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

A note in the Update seemed to cap haggle at 50% REDUCTION and 50% of item sold....what numbers does this impact for a Haggle bard?

muffinhaggle

Vendor buy/sell prices are now limited to 50% of the item's base price. However, with the now open availability of epic ML 21-25 gear in Faerun, I think they felt they had to do something to better balance the economy. This moves supply and demand more to the forefront, and makes better weaponry/accessories/armors etc available to newer players, at better prices.

With the availability of so many more useful items at all levels of play dropping, higher ML gear dropping in level 1-20 quests, and a more balanced cost per item value between weapons/armor/jewelry, this is a big win for town vendors and AH inventories. Hell this is even a big win for crafters, while potentially filling up the AH again with the glut of higher quality drops. This in turn will bring more buyers to the table and outfit more new players than ever possible. Its therefore a big win for newer players, unlike much of the doom I have seen in other threads relating to haggle.

Finally, I think this balances out well for haggle bards, as the community will count on us once again to unload our wares to vendors. In addition to having much more valuable loot to sell from low levels to end game (up to ml 25 gear), Fatesinger's Allure will grant haggle toons +6 more haggle. I think haggle bards are still going to profit big time, as well as being a more valuable component to a balanced economy than ever before.

Lowering the buy/sell prices, filling the market with higher quality items, spiffing our haggle were brilliant moves that I think will result in a much recovered DDO economy, where folks are buying and selling again en masse. And bards will play an instrumental role in it. Thats my take thusfar.

[karl_k0ch]

A note in the Update seemed to cap haggle at 50% REDUCTION and 50% of item sold....what numbers does this impact for a Haggle bard?

muffinhaggle

None. If you take a look at http://ddowiki.com/page/Haggle, you will see that you will need a very high haggle, namely something in the 140s, to get to that break even point. This build gets close to that mark, and even gets closer with epic destinies and +5 to all skills, but still doesnt arrive there.

Unless you were surfing the very edge of maximum haggle score prior to the update, this change doesn't impede your game experience at all.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

None. If you take a look at http://ddowiki.com/page/Haggle, you will see that you will need a very high haggle, namely something in the 140s, to get to that break even point. This build gets close to that mark, and even gets closer with epic destinies and +5 to all skills, but still doesnt arrive there.

Unless you were surfing the very edge of maximum haggle score prior to the update, this change doesn't impede your game experience at all.

Yep, I wouldn't change a single thing about building a haggle bard because of these changes.

[muffinlad]

None. If you take a look at http://ddowiki.com/page/Haggle, you will see that you will need a very high haggle, namely something in the 140s, to get to that break even point. This build gets close to that mark, and even gets closer with epic destinies and +5 to all skills, but still doesnt arrive there.

Unless you were surfing the very edge of maximum haggle score prior to the update, this change doesn't impede your game experience at all.

Thanks for pointing that out karl k0ch. Very helpful indeed.

Regs,

muffinhammer

[muffinlad]

Vendor buy/sell prices are now limited to 50% of the item's base price. However, with the now open availability of epic ML 21-25 gear in Faerun, I think they felt they had to do something to better balance the economy. This moves supply and demand more to the forefront, and makes better weaponry/accessories/armors etc available to newer players, at better prices.

With the availability of so many more useful items at all levels of play dropping, higher ML gear dropping in level 1-20 quests, and a more balanced cost per item value between weapons/armor/jewelry, this is a big win for town vendors and AH inventories. Hell this is even a big win for crafters, while potentially filling up the AH again with the glut of higher quality drops. This in turn will bring more buyers to the table and outfit more new players than ever possible. Its therefore a big win for newer players, unlike much of the doom I have seen in other threads relating to haggle.

Finally, I think this balances out well for haggle bards, as the community will count on us once again to unload our wares to vendors. In addition to having much more valuable loot to sell from low levels to end game (up to ml 25 gear), Fatesinger's Allure will grant haggle toons +6 more haggle. I think haggle bards are still going to profit big time, as well as being a more valuable component to a balanced economy than ever before.

Lowering the buy/sell prices, filling the market with higher quality items, spiffing our haggle were brilliant moves that I think will result in a much recovered DDO economy, where folks are buying and selling again en masse. And bards will play an instrumental role in it. Thats my take thusfar.

Thanks LeslieWest for that excellent overview.

regs,

muffinsurfer

[Pintail]

Shield and dwarves axe or canifix better survibility?

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Shield and dwarves axe or canifix better survibility?

I like em both. Carni is great DPS in the beginning, especially with your bard songs backing you up. I also ran with a single handed weapon and a devotion shield when mostly healing/CC. Now there's so many more options out there with all these prefixes/suffixes and new higher ML weapons.

For me I always had the highest CC gear at my disposal at all times. The finest focus item (spell DC), and the highest spell penetration possible.