Haggle Bard - Mississippi Queen

**Valindria** · 12-01-2010, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Persiflage

Thanks for the advice! I'll exercise my Google-fu and take a look at Genghis; do you still realise most of the shopping benefits by going that route?

There is nothing wrong with the 16/2/2 build but honestly it sounds like you are after a more well rounded toon.

See Classic Rocker for THF: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=249865

A little dated is my TWF generalist: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=267805

But it's a similar thing. The DPS on the 16/2/2 will be better, but the DPS on the links above will still be great with better benefits to haggle/bard skills.

**LeslieWest_GuitarGod** · 12-01-2010, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by Valindria

There is nothing wrong with the 16/2/2 build but honestly it sounds like you are after a more well rounded toon.

See Classic Rocker for THF: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=249865

A little dated is my TWF generalist: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=267805

But it's a similar thing. The DPS on the 16/2/2 will be better, but the DPS on the links above will still be great with better benefits to haggle/bard skills.

True, but the generalist requires much more gear to excel, especially as you level. When I build, fun and ease of building are paramount. The generalist will have better healing and cc, but the options for cc diminish at high level anyway, and the healing is quite effective once the proper gear is aquired, thereby closing the gap in the heal department.

Either way... generalists or the more powerful 16/2/2 will rely on the player more than anything else. My recommendation is to read the builds and see which one meets your fancy more.

**pappo** · 12-01-2010, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Persiflage

I've only been playing a month (well, early) and I'm already giving serious thought to doing this build, but I wonder... how playable is this bard through all the levelling-up stages? Do you contribute well to a party 1-20? Are there blank spots in utility, or is a group pleased to have you at any level?

I play as much as I can, but I don't have sufficient DDO time to level a character *purely* for Haggling, so this is very important to me

Thanks in advance!

I have my "clone" of the Mississippi build up to lvl 11 now and it is just plain fun to play. With my high UMD i can use just about any wand or scroll, besides being able to sing. I love it when a party,without a healer, is amazed when I use heal and raise dead scrolls on party members who have died. I guess you would consider me a healbot/buffbot(CC). I now have Otto's Sphere which is really fun. If an enemy can be made to dance, draw them back to a door or narrow area, and just throw Glitterdust and Otto's Sphere and let your party hack them to pieces.
With my high Haggle the wands and scrolls are really cheap.
Unless you really want to do DPS, this toon is too much fun not to try.

Good luck.

**Valindria** · 12-01-2010, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod

True, but the generalist requires much more gear to excel, especially as you level. When I build, fun and ease of building are paramount. The generalist will have better healing and cc, but the options for cc diminish at high level anyway, and the healing is quite effective once the proper gear is aquired, thereby closing the gap in the heal department.

Either way... generalists or the more powerful 16/2/2 will rely on the player more than anything else. My recommendation is to read the builds and see which one meets your fancy more.

I know you love your builds but your gear statement is wrong. Any gear your 16/2/2 can use my 20 THF Bard could use (masters touch). My HO CR is level 8 with a carifex. I am pretty sure there are 10 pages discussing a carifex in your 16/2/2. Your statement would make a new player shy away from a generalist when it might be the best fit for them. My TWF bard uses rapiers and short swords so it's hard to compare.

By end game the Tod Necklaces have Sup Pot 6. Both builds want torcs/conc op. Really the only difference is a bard with healing in mind might roll on a green blade or healing gauntlets (GH) for crit chance where a 16/2/2 might not. I see what you are trying to say. It's more gear to acquire, but really as you play you can just hold on to things you might sell. Didn't get a good reward for TRG but hey there is a Devotion ring in there, why not.

The OP wanted a toon with haggle that he could play with no gaps. A pure bard will end up with higher haggle and can be used in DPS or some heal spots. Give them a look over and see. I agree with you there.

**LeslieWest_GuitarGod** · 12-01-2010, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by Valindria

The OP wanted a toon with haggle that he could play with no gaps. A pure bard will end up with higher haggle and can be used in DPS or some heal spots. Give them a look over and see. I agree with you there.

Picking the right bard build has much more to do with matching your playstyle with the game mechanics... and getting as close as you can get to what your build's goals are.

At level 5, a bard with 2 fighter and 2 barbarian levels will just outgun and outshine a similarly equipped level 5 bard warchanter. My gear statement is correct because of the synergies that fighter and barbarian brings to the weapons and the bard's DPS game overall.. That's not putting down generalists, because they do have an edge in cc and healing...

You should know Valindria, I dont recommend my builds over anybody's build. I have recommended Rach's builds as much as I've recommended my own. She makes a great generalist bard. So have you. It's all up to player choice. Me personally, I like ALL bards. I enjoy watching what people can bring to the class via their playstyle.

I'm not going to get into any more pros/cons of a 16/2/2 in this thread, because this is not the place. However, I stand behind my statements.

**Valindria** · 12-01-2010, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod

Picking the right bard build has much more to do with matching your playstyle with the game mechanics... and getting as close as you can get to what your build's goals are.

At level 5, a bard with 2 fighter and 2 barbarian levels will just outgun and outshine a similarly equipped level 5 bard warchanter. My gear statement is correct because of the synergies that fighter and barbarian brings to the weapons and the bard's DPS game overall.. That's not putting down generalists, because they do have an edge in cc and healing...

You should know Valindria, I dont recommend my builds over anybody's build. I have recommended Rach's builds as much as I've recommended my own. She makes a great generalist bard. So have you. It's all up to player choice. Me personally, I like ALL bards. I enjoy watching what people can bring to the class via their playstyle.

I'm not going to get into any more pros/cons of a 16/2/2 in this thread, because this is not the place. However, I stand behind my statements.

Lets take this outside:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...=1#post3446089

**LeslieWest_GuitarGod** · 12-01-2010, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by Valindria

Lets take this outside:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...=1#post3446089

No thank you.

**Dulcimerist** · 12-27-2010, 05:42 AM

I'm interested in making a Drow version of this build. Would that work well? How would you convert this build to Drow?

Thanks!

**LeslieWest_GuitarGod** · 12-27-2010, 05:52 AM

Originally Posted by Dulcimerist

I'm interested in making a Drow version of this build. Would that work well? How would you convert this build to Drow?

Thanks!

You can certainly roll up a drow, however haggle will always be higher on a human because of human versatility. If you tell me what you want to do on your drow bard, I may be able to help further...

**Dulcimerist** · 12-27-2010, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod

You can certainly roll up a drow, however haggle will always be higher on a human because of human versatility. If you tell me what you want to do on your drow bard, I may be able to help further...

I mostly wanted to make a Drow Spellsinger for the SR and the flavor. I'll be slow in getting this toon to level, but wanted a fun toon to play that could also store items and haggle to sell loot out of my shared bank.

I do have a Human Warchanter at level 11 that I play a lot, but I ignored haggle on that toon.

Would I only be losing one or two points of haggle if I went Drow?

**LeslieWest_GuitarGod** · 12-27-2010, 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by Dulcimerist

I mostly wanted to make a Drow Spellsinger for the SR and the flavor. I'll be slow in getting this toon to level, but wanted a fun toon to play that could also store items and haggle to sell loot out of my shared bank.

I do have a Human Warchanter at level 11 that I play a lot, but I ignored haggle on that toon.

Would I only be losing one or two points of haggle if I went Drow?

Yeah its not much at all.

**NaturalHazard** · 01-05-2011, 07:17 AM

Why do people keep saying that haggle bards cant do anything but pike in groups? I dont bother saying my bard is a haggle bard till after i run a few quests with people then they are supprised to find out what his haggle skill is, and its often higher than their haggle bard who they dont use for quests and only get used for selling stuff. And I point out there is a wafchanter melee version as well they dont believe it.

**Dulcimerist** · 01-05-2011, 09:56 AM

Has someone made a drow hagglebard based on this design in a character planner format yet? I'm working on converting MQ into drow, but would rather not have to reinvent the wheel if someone has already converted and posted it somewhere.

**Zenako** · 01-05-2011, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Dulcimerist

Has someone made a drow hagglebard based on this design in a character planner format yet? I'm working on converting MQ into drow, but would rather not have to reinvent the wheel if someone has already converted and posted it somewhere.

Shouldn't be much of anything different other than starting Race. You should, Max out CHA on the Drow. The extra starting CHA of Drow helps to offset a bit of the lack of Human Versatility on the character. It also can help with spell DC's and all of the other CHA based skills that come into play on selected quests. I personally went with more Dex than STR due to build costs and focused on using effects weapons when fighting that merely rely on hitting the target. (Cursespewers, Destruction, Crippling, etc). As such I took Weapon Finesse to use Dex to hit vs Str. I believe I swapped that out at cap since the mobs at that point were either easy to hit without it, or still impossible to hit even with it. Melee was not the strong point of the character. No fail (virtually) songs, effective spells and UMD are. Not to mention being able to afford pretty much anything you want to....

**SmashBang** · 01-13-2011, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod

Here's the current day Mississippee Queen. I fit in Spellsinger II rather seamlessly, cutting away some fat along the process. The Cajan Lady finally takes toughness, but leaves in Negotiator and Haggle focus, for a true Queen knows no boundaries accept the ones she purchases at a steep discount!

Code:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.0 BETA
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Mississippee Queen
Level 20 True Neutral Human Female
(20 Bard) 
Hit Points: 242
Spell Points: 1075 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 12
Will: 12

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    18
Dexterity             8                    10
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence          8                    10
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma             18                    30

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               0                    25
Bluff                 4                    10
Concentration         6                    31
Diplomacy             8                    30
Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
Haggle                8                    42
Heal                 -1                     0
Hide                 -1                     0
Intimidate            4                    10
Jump                  4                    19
Listen               -1                     0
Move Silently        -1                     0
Open Lock            n/a                    n/a
Perform               8                    33
Repair               -1                     0
Search               -1                     0
Spot                 -1                     0
Swim                  3                     4
Tumble                1                     2
Use Magic Device      8                    37

Level 1 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Charm
Feat: (Automatic) Fascinate
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Courage
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 2 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Spell (1): Hypnotism
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I


Level 3 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Enchantment
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Competence
Spell (1): Otto's Resistable Dance
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I


Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (2): Soundburst
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds
Enhancement: Improved Concentration II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II


Level 5 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (1): Focusing Chant
Spell (2): Invisibility
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II


Level 6 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Feat: (Automatic) Suggestion
Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger I


Level 7 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (3): Good Hope
Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds
Spell (2): Suggestion
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II


Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Inspire Courage
Spell (3): Haste
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II


Level 9 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Greatness
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III


Level 10 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (3): Displacement
Spell (4): Otto's Sphere of Dancing
Spell (4): Cure Critical Wounds
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song II
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music III


Level 11 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (4): Freedom of Movement
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Improved Haggle I
Enhancement: Improved Haggle II
Enhancement: Improved Haggle III


Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment
Feat: (Automatic) Song of Freedom
Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger II


Level 13 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (5): Greater Heroism
Spell (5): Mass Cure Light Wounds
Spell (4): Dimension Door
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III


Level 14 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (5): Mind Fog
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Improved Haggle IV


Level 15 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Negotiator
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Heroics
Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II


Level 16 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+2)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (6): Otto's Irresistable Dance
Spell (6): Mass Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (5): Mass Suggestion
Spell (1): Remove Fear
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery III


Level 17 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (6): Heroes Feast
Spell (2): Rage
Enhancement: Human Versatility II


Level 18 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Haggle
Feat: (Automatic) Mass Suggestion
Spell (3): Crushing Despair
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II

Level 19 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (6): Mass Charm Monster
Spell (4): Break Enchantment
Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration II

Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (5): Greater Dispel Magic
Enhancement: Bard Musical Prodigy
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery IV

I like this concept but I seem so squishy. I have my haggle bard based on this build up to level 10 and it has been a struggle.

Now that could be because I am used to playing a tank, rogue and FVS all high level for a while, not sure. I only have 150 or so hitpoints.

What sort of gear do I need to be looking for?

What can I do to make myself less squishy and more able to contribute to the group's success?

**AtomicMew** · 01-13-2011, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by mrscreammeface

I like this concept but I seem so squishy. I have my haggle bard based on this build up to level 10 and it has been a struggle.

Now that could be because I am used to playing a tank, rogue and FVS all high level for a while, not sure. I only have 150 or so hitpoints.

What sort of gear do I need to be looking for?

What can I do to make myself less squishy and more able to contribute to the group's success?

I have a max haggle spellsinger at level 16 currently. I think it is a very BIG mistake not to take spellsinger II. A bard's end-game is basically a buff bot, and to not max out your buffing capability is gimpy.

Forget about trying to solo with this build. Personally, I took 16 CON and played a main healer from level 1 to ~15. At around the time you get mass cure, start using Maximize Spell to bump up your heal power. When you hit level 12, you are arguably BETTER at healing than a cleric or FvS. When you start to lose healing power due to not having Heal, you should start playing a DC based caster with melee to speed things up. Mass suggestion is probably the best spell in your arsenal. You also need to look for some gear to get a reasonable DC (+CHA, +enchantment) and reasonable melee power (paralyzing, banes, vorpal, holy/pure good, silver etc).

For survivability, you want to farm out a minos (+20), find a greater false life belt (+30) and the biggest CON item you can wear on the AH. You should easily hit around +300 HP at level 16. Quick and dirty, but it works. Once you replace that gear, don't throw them away. Put them in your shared storage, and your next toon will have them available without having to re-buy.

**LeslieWest_GuitarGod** · 01-13-2011, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by AtomicMew

I have a max haggle spellsinger at level 16 currently. I think it is a very BIG mistake not to take spellsinger II.

You are possibly commenting on the original build, which was designed long before the latest PrE. I have updated this build to include Spellsinger II. Very easy to do. Naturally you want to do this.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=601

The rebuild addresses both HP and Spellsinger II.. You can replace the haggle feats for quicken and maximize if you'd like. As for soloing, if you can use crowd control, you can solo with ease. If they are immune, than naturally you will need company...

**Quikster** · 01-13-2011, 10:40 PM

Meh my haggle bard is a warchanter, melees when I want, and can reach 100+ haggle. Just depends what you want to do and what gear you go after.

**NaturalHazard** · 01-13-2011, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by Quikster

Meh my haggle bard is a warchanter, melees when I want, and can reach 100+ haggle. Just depends what you want to do and what gear you go after.

I took leslies build because i had only played melees so far wanted to try out somethig different.

**LeslieWest_GuitarGod** · 01-13-2011, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by Quikster

Meh my haggle bard is a warchanter, melees when I want, and can reach 100+ haggle. Just depends what you want to do and what gear you go after.

Much easier to reach uber high haggle nowadays. Crowd control is still a fun and effective way to mitigate damage for many, and even though Turbine has sought to nerf CC seemingly each opportunity they get, I still find myself having a blast hitting my spells and healing my parties. Spellsinger II is really nice.

I didnt want to tie down my melee bard with any haggle feats/enhancements/gear.

So you are spot on, just depends what you want to do and what gear you go after.

Thread: Haggle Bard - Mississippi Queen

Thread Tools

Search Thread

Display

Posting Permissions