Haggle Bard - Mississippi Queen

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

I don't need to create a thread about my hagglebot, thanks And the implication that I built my build from your is laughable, since how hard is it to build a haggle bard, really?

Building a bard and playing a bard are two entirely different conversations. But it sounds like you got that on lock so good luck with your bad self...

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

yeah cause you are the only person who EVER thought to build a human max cha bard for the purpose of maximizing out your haggle skill. You are truly a pioneer of the bard world.

Such an angry young man It is amusing to me though that an 18 page thread with over 40,000 views ticks you off that much. Well thanks for your neolithic grace and have a great day!

[CrushingInklings]

Get a room you two.

[techguru]

I have found extremely good information, thought and expertise in these pages.

[WolfFarmer]

I just wish to say Thank You Leslie. I for one appreciate this thread, and I know that many in my Guild will also be looking at the info here.

May the Gods Bless You Richly,

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

I just wish to say Thank You Leslie. I for one appreciate this thread, and I know that many in my Guild will also be looking at the info here.

May the Gods Bless You Richly,

You are more then welcome If you or your guildies have any questions that arent answered in this thread, have 'em post here or hit me up in PMs...

[Gunga]

Such an angry young man

He doesn't seem angry to me...not as angry as you.

Maybe it's this that rubs people the wrong way:

Maybe the most talked about build in DDO

Man, you come up with the funniest stuff. +1!

My bard is better, though. 16/2/2 FTW!

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

He doesn't seem angry to me...not as angry as you.

My bard is better, though. 16/2/2 FTW!

Can't two New Yorkers just get along?

I'll have to admit, I'd sit down and have a beer with ya, but then again, what would we talk about? I can teach ya about bards and girls, whichever you need more help in

[Gunga]

Can't two New Yorkers just get along?

I'll have to admit, I'd sit down and have a beer with ya, but then again, what would we talk about? I can teach ya about bards and girls, whichever you need more help in

See, I'm more of a beat stuff up kind of bard, and you're more of a pay me a lot for this junk kind of bard.

You can't teach me anything about DPS, obviously.

After touring the east in a rock band and 10 years working in the music industry, I settled down with my hot wife. I doubt you could teach me anything about girls either.

I'll take the beer though, if you know where to find a good draw of Guinness.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

I'll take the beer though, if you know where to find a good draw of Guinness.

Rock n Roll (I play a Steinberger P headless and Dean Signature Leslie West model guitars) and Guinness. Now we are talkin!

[Kistilan]

Hey Leslie-

Can you include a percentage-increase to the haggle skill of 84?

For instance, on a 1,000 gp item sold normally, what's the increase in gp value and its percentage bonus when sold with a haggle of 84.

And also take a 32k gp item to the weapons vendor shop in Deneith and show the increase in gp value from its original value to sold value with a haggle of 84?

Perhaps someone could show the baseline gp value with a haggle of 0 on these same items.

Then the percentage increase could be determined. I didn't see it on your main page for the build with an 84 haggle. This would help determine whether mailing items or banking items for characters with semi-decent haggles is even worth it versus shelving it for the Mississippi Queen (if they have it).

[Anderei]

My bard is better, though. 16/2/2 FTW!

Com'on this is an old beating. Yes questwise the mississipi-build gimps somewhat to maximize haggle (e.g. the two haggle feats) instead of e.g. toughness and heighten

This build is primary about the highest possible haggle (disregarding past lifes and completion feat) and tries to make as secondary goal the best out this frame to do well in a party (as Buffer, CC, Healer and UMD user), in both goals it suceeds well. I'm in lvl 19 of this build (95% like it) and I had a hell of fun playing time, had enjoyed playing it more than my rogue or my FvS before, will make a larger post about my leveling experience once I cap off. If you say you're non-haggle focused bard is "better" (better in the sense of questing), of course it is, whom you want to proof anything? Its a different build goal.

[Gunga]

Com'on this is an old beating. Yes questwise the mississipi-build gimps somewhat to maximize haggle (e.g. the two haggle feats) instead of e.g. toughness and heighten

This build is primary about the highest possible haggle (disregarding past lifes and completion feat) and tries to make as secondary goal the best out this frame to do well in a party (as Buffer, CC, Healer and UMD user), in both goals it suceeds well. I'm in lvl 19 of this build (95% like it) and I had a hell of fun playing time, had enjoyed playing it more than my rogue or my FvS before, will make a larger post about my leveling experience once I cap off. If you say you're non-haggle focused bard is "better" (better in the sense of questing), of course it is, whom you want to proof anything? Its a different build goal.

I know man. It's a spittin' contest.

Have some fun.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Then the percentage increase could be determined. I didn't see it on your main page for the build with an 84 haggle. This would help determine whether mailing items or banking items for characters with semi-decent haggles is even worth it versus shelving it for the Mississippi Queen (if they have it).

Hey Kistilan,

To answer your question briefly, its almost always better to mail to your haggle bard, the determining factor is how much time do you want to diverge to the arduous task. I choose loosely to mail merchandise of around 30,000 gp base value to my bard, to be worth my time. However, I will prove you feasibly could make money going much lower.

Lets get to the math...

Mailing an item costs 2%. This is independent of builds and items.

Easy examples anyone can test in-game:

98,000 gp (Greataxe) = costs 1960 gp to mail.

11,250 gp (Cure Serious Wounds wand) = costs 225 gp to mail.

948 gp (bard components) = costs 19 gp to mail.

All exactly 2% cost.

Here's a limited extension of the DDO wiki haggle chart, which I use to highlight my example.

SELL % of Item Base Value at Vendor with Rep quest

72 30.50
73 30.75
74 31
75 31.25
76 31.50
77 31.75
78 32
79 32.25
80 32.50
81 32.75
82 33
83 33.25
84 33.5%

With an 84 haggle, you are selling items at 33.5% of the item's base value.

BUY % of Item Base Value at Vendor with Rep quest

72 75.2%
73 74.6
74 74
75 73.4
76 72.8
77 72.2
78 71.6
79 71
80 70.4
81 69.8
82 69.3
83 68.7
84 68.1

With an 84 haggle, you are buying items at 68.1% of the item's base value.

My example:

Lets buy and sell Cure Serious Wands on several toons. Three bards with respectable haggles, and for overall scope mixed with a little hilarity, my fighter with zip invested in haggle.

The base value of wand = 11,250 gp. Mailing this item will cost 225 gp.

BUY (cost of wand)
-1 haggle = 13,218 gp
68 haggle = 8,724 gp
78 haggle = 8,063 gp
84 haggle = 7,661 gp

SELL ($$ made on wand)
-1 haggle = 1,406 gp
68 haggle = 2,880 gp
78 haggle = 3,318 gp
84 haggle = 3,769 gp


In short, as long as you are going to gross over 2% profit for an item, its monetarily worthwhile to mail the item to your haggle bard. Even if your haggle was 78 on your lesser haggle toon, you still net (difference between 84 and 78 haggle = 451 gp. 451-225=226) 226 gold pieces on your 84 haggle toon selling this wand to a vendor.

Remember, I'm using extremely tight math on a relatively inexpensive item. It would be almost silly to waste the time to move 11,000gp items from a 78 to an 84 haggle toon with intent to profit. The reason I used this example though is to prove with inexpensive items, on bards with minimal differences in haggle, I STILL COULD PROFIT. Which then proves it should be a no-brainer if your haggle is at least 15 points greater on your haggle toon, you are making/saving thousands of gold pieces daily by mailing "junk" to your haggle bard for sale.

Hope this helps Kist!

[undercover69]

Hi, found your thread and it looks pretty interesting. I dont understand some of your choices, however. Specially about spells and a feat or 2 (maybe even swapping later). I thought of getting mental toughness and extend spell at 1st lvl to combine it with buffs. Also spell pen at 3rd lvl seems too much too early. Of course that means I'd have to either drop some feat or swap mental toughness later on (say at lvl 15 for greater spell pen, which I thought of dropping).

Regarding spells, whats the pros and cons of this selection? Thx.

[Level 1 (Bard)
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat


Level 2 (Bard)
Spell (1): Focusing Chant


Level 3 (Bard)
Spell (1): Hypnotism


Level 4 (Bard)
Spell (2): Blur
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds


Level 5 (Bard)
Spell (1): Feather Fall
Spell (2): Suggestion


Level 6 (Bard)


Level 7 (Bard)
Spell (2): Glitterdust
Spell (3): Charm Monster
Spell (3): Haste


Level 8 (Bard)
Spell (3): Good Hope


Level 9 (Bard)


Level 10 (Bard)
Spell (3): Displacement
Spell (4): Cure Critical Wounds
Spell (4): Otto's Sphere of Dancing


Level 11 (Bard)
Spell (4): Freedom of Movement


Level 12 (Bard)


Level 13 (Bard)
Spell (4): Dimension Door
Spell (5): Greater Heroism
Spell (5): Mass Suggestion


Level 14 (Bard)
Spell (5): Shadow Walk


Level 15 (Bard)


Level 16 (Bard)
Spell (1): Remove Fear
Spell (5): Greater Dispel Magic
Spell (6): Otto's Irresistable Dance
Spell (6): Mass Cure Moderate Wounds


Level 17 (Bard)
Spell (2): Invisibility


Level 18 (Bard)
Spell (3): Remove Curse


Level 19 (Bard)
Spell (4): Hold Monster
Spell (6): Mass Charm Monster


Level 20 (Bard)
Spell (5): Mind Fog

[Anderei]

I took mental toughness only to replace it later since I happened most of the times to have enough mana when shrining, what do you want to drop in favor for this? taking extent earlier is a good idea howerver. If you think you can do without one of the feats Leslie selected I would much more go for Toughness or Heighten than Mental Toughness.

Spells, you're missing out for Soundburst? Its a great spell up to aprox. lvl 12. Generally pre peperad to swap some around when youre leveling whats useful at the beginning gets useless later and vice versa.

Also you're missing out on Ottos Resistable? Its a par 1 defense for the bard.

I also appreciate Good Hope, altough eventually your Inspire Courage will override it, its still a good fallback in case of it expiriting, its just one cast per shrine.

[x1372]

Well my hagglebard is up to 15 and 3 dots, still having fun. However, I feel that I am REALLY hurting for lack of quicken. Fascinate and the dancing ball are just so slow, and the dancing ball (even with good concentration) has a bad habit of getting interrupted at the worst of times. I just can't count on my pug NOT to run ahead while I'm prepping the ball, often screwing up its placement too. I can finally UMD heal scrolls 100% with my human versatility on... at this point is it possible that I'd be better off swapping Empower Healing for Quicken?

Also, I'm carrying for weapons... a truelaw-puregood set, a vorpal set, a paralyzer set, an anarchaic set, a double burst pick set, a greater spell pen 6/superior potency 6 set, a sunblade, the 2h greater enchantment weapon from the reaver raid, a damager crossbow, a paralyzer crossbow, a smiter crossbow, and a banisher crossbow. Is there anything that I am in need of for weapons, particularly with shroud coming up?

[Zenako]

Hey Kistilan,

To answer your question briefly, its almost always better to mail to your haggle bard, ....
.
.
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e making/saving thousands of gold pieces daily by mailing "junk" to your haggle bard for sale.

Hope this helps Kist!

However with the advent of the SHARED Bank this almost becomes a moot concern. It is a LOT quicker to just dump anything of nominal worth into that bank and then grab it with the Haggle Bard to sell. I know I do that these days (and with the extra 10 spaces from the expanded shared bank for 30 spots) you can hold a pretty large assortment in their for resale.

With the Advent of F2P one can also create very viable mules to use for temp storage if you have more than one computer available. Just log onto the F2P mule and trade up to 60 items to them for resale, then grab the bard and start grabbing and selling. Between the shared bank and a F2P mule, you can simply the need to keep changing characters to sell off stuff, until you have a whole lot at once. This can also make it cost effective to use the ALCHEM pots for a boost if you have enough to move at one time.

[Backley]

With the Advent of F2P one can also create very viable mules to use for temp storage if you have more than one computer available.

I created my Haggle Bard on a 2nd account, and run her around to my quests to hold stuff for me, then sell.

You don't even need to use 2 computers to run 2 accounts at once:
1. Set DDO to run in a window.
2. Make one or more junction-copies of your DDO program folder (junction to save hard drive space since the underlying files are only stored once). I use http://schinagl.priv.at/nt/hardlinks...kshellext.html
2. Run ddo.exe from each folder. You will have multiple copies of the launcher running.
3. Log in on 2 of the launchers, on 2 separate accounts.

The DDO launcher checks to see if the game is already running, but it doesn't check if another copy of the launcher is running.

Note that you have to close all copies of the game before you can re-open any of the the launchers, so you might want to have several copies open. I use 5 copies, so I can open storage alts on several accounts before I have to close everything and restart.

Also, running 2 copies of the game works great for me. Logging in 3 or more at once freezes my graphics card after a few minutes, so I shuffle 2 at once mostly.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

However with the advent of the SHARED Bank this almost becomes a moot concern. It is a LOT quicker to just dump anything of nominal worth into that bank and then grab it with the Haggle Bard to sell.

Ahhh the good ol' "new" shared bank! Good call Zenako! Didn't even think to talk about that.

Yes, I use the shared bank... I even bought the extra slots for it from the Turbine store. Sadly, I fill it so quickly I'm still in need to mail some things. I use a f2p account as well, but usually just have a friend help me out to eliminate the mail fees....

Trust that Miss don't pay unless Miss HAS to pay