Rydin, the 16 STR puts you in the ballpark to hit. No question. However, you are not a full time tank on this build. As a spellsinger, you technically have no melee responsibilies whatsoever. You are also well out of range of most baddies to have any need to raise your will save any higher. When I am in close, I just dont have much of an issue. Remember, since you arent front line, you simply arent getting hit with many will based attacks.
That being said... when the coast is clear, I can grab my vorpal, dreamsplitter, paralyzer, banisher, portal beater, or any dps weapon and connect. The damage and tohit are not on par with a true tank... nor should it be. But the 16 STR gives you just enough ooomph to hit. The -2 STR would not be good at all, and would definately hamper your ability to connect.
In conclusion, its nice to bump strength because you have all your other bases covered. Since you are not front line, saves and ac should never be a problem with a spellsinger, and since you can heal yourself, the only other stat left is strength. and that +2 STR bump will be very noticeable to this build.
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AC doesn't really matter on bard, even a melee spec'd bard. All you need is the Dissplacement spell(Spell level3 for bards) and a Stone Skin clicky from the shroud or the DQ raid to "hide" behind, they even sell wands of stone skin in the 12 if ya didnt want to make a clicky.
Jeets said he wouldn't tell Turbine. ;(
Thanks Comfy. Yeah... come to think of it you almost never see a great warchanter fight without displacement/stoneskin. Barkskin and blur can be used as well. Fireshield/shield can also be used. A spellsinger should not forget these buffs either if he/she switches to melee. I'll naturally sing inspire competence and hit inspire heroics on meself. Mississippee will be well buffed before I even think of meleeing. Lastly, I pop a haste pot and bang bang.
Last edited by LeslieWest_GuitarGod; 05-21-2009 at 07:45 AM.
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Ah ok thanks for the info. Now...some follow-ups:
1. What about tactics and gear at the lower levels? Did you use Sword and board and fight more? Did you use something like a Lesser Devotion II shield? Did you stick back and heal at low levels? What use did you make of Charm, Hold, etc?
2. How much use of the bard song Fascinate do you use/did you use? Do you find parties zerging and thus not giving you much use of fascinate?
3. At higher levels, what type of gear would you typically use with this build? Mithral Breastplate? Or does the armor really not matter? Rings? helm? 100% fort item not needed, since you don't draw as much aggro and don't really melee?
I'm just trying to get an idea of the gear at the hi levels, and tactics at the low level. The tactics at high level have been explained pretty well.
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I will have to get over this philosophical opposition I have, to anything but Monks, Wiz, and Sorc wearing robes. I just think a Ranger and Bard ought to wear armor and not robes. I realize the value of the fast switching but it just grates me the wrong way. Maybe if Turbine changed dex/speed switching...I tend to look for nice Robes/outfits at this point, since they are instant change (unlike the armors which take time.)
Thanks for the info on tactics and gear though. Seems like I don't see enough posts about that type of thing.
Another thing I don't see much of, is, what would a Bard keep on their #1 hotbar for quick number-key use? I'm going to assume something like a Cure spell, a good charm spell like Otto's, or Hold spell for sure, just for the quick moments when that Fiendish Ogre is bearing down on you, right?
Haste, Displacement? Kinda hard for me to say since I have 10 hot bars on screen all the time and switch the active one to match the situation. The Ultimate Charm spell is Fascinate, but it really helps to be hasted and displaced while doing the spiral death song sucking all the mobs into the area of effect.
While I somewhat agree on the armor/robe thoughts, I know I used armor when a wee one, but now that I am a "capped lord of song" I can get away with running around in my PJ's (Also not much difference in AC 24 vs AC 13 at capped encounters...grrr.) and when everyone is Stoneskinned the armor/robe being worn is hardly noticeable anymore...
Sarlona - The Ko Brotherhood :Jareko-Elf Ranger12Rogue8+4E; Hennako-Human Cleric22; Rukio-Human Paladin18; Taellya-Halfling Rogue16; Zenako-Dwarf Fighter10Cleric1; Daniko-Drow Bard20; Kerriganko-Human Cleric18; Buket-WF Fighter6; Xenophilia-Human Wiz20; Zenakotwo-Dwarf Cleric16; Yadnomko-Halfling Ftr12; Gabiko-Human Bard15; lots more
Ok before I get back to the gritty nitty of this thread, I'd like to thank everyone for keeping focused and on topic, for the most part.
One word: Soundburst. On this build, soundburst at early levels is just earth-shattering. Many of the parties I've been in at lower levels have just walked through quests with wise use of this spell. And its a party friendly spell. Along with a tank using his intimidate ability, soundburst becomes just laughable. Rogues will love you long time after you hit soundburst. At the low levels learn your crowd control techniques. You will ALWAYS be potent at crowd control. The lower levels is where you try it all out. Get a feel for your charms, fascinate, hypnotism. You'll be healing as well.
At low levels, I would don a mithril shirt, the highest devotion shield you could get your hands on, at each level. You will be growing into higher quality mithril (I own a +5 fearsome mithral shirt which has been well worn) and a closet full of robes. But for the early mid level, keep the mithril and a shield on, and work your fortification up.
Fascinate is extremely powerful and under utilized. The quicker you are on your feet... and the more comfortable you are with your fascinates, the better you'll be at letting parties do your thing. PRACTICE. Fascinate has saved too many parties' arses I've been in. Remember this. FEW people appreciate the bard. But I've learned if you can HIT your CC (crowd control) you will continually get "wows" from the parties you are in, especially in pug groups. Your guildies will simply EXPECT you to hit your CC.
You are dying for me to say heavy armor! But I will dissapoint you here. As most seasoned bards will tell you, buffs are your specialty. You will have every buff imaginable. And if you want to be effective, you will need to use them.
I have two modes in battle. Melee and non melee mode.
In non-melee situations:
armor: fearsome/heavy fortification, deathblock/invulnerability, fearsome/greater fire resist robes
weapons: Superior Potency VI and Greater Spell Pen VI
goggles: Greensteel CHA skills +3, Air Guard, Wizardry VI
helm: Helm of Free Will
necklace: Lorricks Necklace (Empower Healing II), Golden Cartouche (UMD 3)
cloak: all the greater resist cloaks, Napkin
belt: greater false life
gloves: Gauntles of Eternity (Superior Healing Lore)
boots: 30% striders
bracers: Enchantment/Evocation bracers until you get the napkin, AC + 6/7/8 bracers
rings: fill in the gaps here.. heavy fort, Con 4/6 ring, featherfall, disease, proof against poison
Melee mode:
make sure your con +6 strength +6 items are on, mithral chain or breastplate, minos helm, don your weapons and go to work!
Last edited by LeslieWest_GuitarGod; 05-21-2009 at 02:12 PM.
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Buffs > ANY armor for a spell singer. I like to be able to click my robes/cloaks to fit the situation. You are always protected, so you can protect others. If something gets too close, irresistible dance will correct most wayward monsters... for a long time.
Bards have MANY bars on a screen. Remember we are UMD specialists, we can use ANY wands, even arcane wands, cure wands, clickies... we do A LOT. And it all needs to be represented on a bar.
My main bar is mobile.. all depending on the quest I'm doing. My thing is Irresistible dance. It sits on my #1 slot. If something gets too close, its going to dance school! The rest are heals and other CC spells.
Last edited by LeslieWest_GuitarGod; 05-21-2009 at 03:12 PM.
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I too have about 6-7 hotbars on my screen with my fighter...but...
....I didn't realize you could SWITCH THE ACTIVE HOTBAR. I have hotbar #0 and it my number keys 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-0 are tied to those 10 spots on that one hotbar. If I want my rage ring clicky, for example, it is on hotbar #4, and I have to mouse-click on it to go active. Are you saying there is a way to quickly make Hotbar #4 the active? In other words can I quickly make my RING hotbar into the active, usable by number keys?
sounds kinda funThe Ultimate Charm spell is Fascinate, but it really helps to be hasted and displaced while doing the spiral death song sucking all the mobs into the area of effect.
Good pt, I will have to get over it. But I will not be seen running around Stormreach in my PJ's. After quest is over, its into the mith chain shirt.While I somewhat agree on the armor/robe thoughts, I know I used armor when a wee one, but now that I am a "capped lord of song" I can get away with running around in my PJ's (Also not much difference in AC 24 vs AC 13 at capped encounters...grrr.) and when everyone is Stoneskinned the armor/robe being worn is hardly noticeable anymore...
No, I'm not I don't expect a bard to be runnin around in full plate, just like I don't like the idea of a bard or ranger running around in robes, either...but I'll get used to it until Turbine changes that.
Thanks for the list of stuff. I didn't realize the value of fearsome.I have two modes in battle. Melee and non melee mode.
It will be nice to lvl up a Bard, now that I've got my Fighter just about capped. I'm not going to build a Mississippee but it will be a similar spellsinger (and with 16 STR, and no Force of Personality, thanks to everyone's advice...). Like you said earlier in the thread...it is difficult to get all of the enhancements the way I'd like; If I go to Haggle IV, and Human Versatility IV, that can really eat up the enhancement points!
By default shift+#, so shift+4 would make bar four active.Are you saying there is a way to quickly make Hotbar #4 the active? In other words can I quickly make my RING hotbar into the active, usable by number keys?
Hehe, you see my ego isnt so big that I'd be offended that you arent using my exact stats/feats/enhancements... like so many on the forums. I also wont sit and argue over whats "best" for a bard. Im glad you chose my thread to read and it appears you've learned a few things. THAT was my whole point of spending so much time on this thread.
The greatest thing about building a bard is the sheer variety of options. Looking forward to hearing how you like your new bard....
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To much UMD? (Is it possible?)
19 ranks
14 cha mod (38cha)
4 GH
6 shroud cha skills item
5 Titan gloves
= 50 (Could add another 4 from human skill boost,3 from feat...but at that point its a waste?)
Jeets said he wouldn't tell Turbine. ;(
50 standing UMD here. Theres no need for more. Golden Cartouche. Nothing more.
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It seems to me like the more I play my bard, the more I notice that people don't know how to react when I fascinate something...
I will use Tangleroot as an example for a quest setting when Fascinate could be used to help the party. Part 5 when you have to get the key, I run ahead and hit fascinate right as I get close enough for the end of my song to hit them, the party comes up and BAM, nothing is held, thus defeating the point of me using that song...does it get better end game with the amount of people who know how to break one mob at a time? /rant off
Jeets said he wouldn't tell Turbine. ;(
Just need to spend some time up front letting them know what you are doing and how it works. Some CC is static and once held/stunned, etc does not break until the spell expires or they save, while something like Fascinate breaks upon taking any damage. Due to not many bards using it effectively you often need a BArd 101 primer up front. Did just that a few months back with my level 6/7 bard in Redwillow. Party talk was worried about how "tough" some of those fights would be. Should we only run it on normal? I told them not to worry, we can handle Hard with no problems, I would hit the mobs with my fascinate song, that they should then gang up on the mobs one by one and slaughter them. They also did not seem to realize how much of an advantage all the songs/buffs would give them as well. Was a pretty painless run, to the surprise of some of those who had probably not run with a knowledgeable bard.
Sarlona - The Ko Brotherhood :Jareko-Elf Ranger12Rogue8+4E; Hennako-Human Cleric22; Rukio-Human Paladin18; Taellya-Halfling Rogue16; Zenako-Dwarf Fighter10Cleric1; Daniko-Drow Bard20; Kerriganko-Human Cleric18; Buket-WF Fighter6; Xenophilia-Human Wiz20; Zenakotwo-Dwarf Cleric16; Yadnomko-Halfling Ftr12; Gabiko-Human Bard15; lots more