Haggle Bard - Mississippi Queen

[Comfortably]

The song had to make you laugh.

I had a good laugh from it....in a good way of course.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

You mentioned that with the 16 STR you can, when needed, go into battle with something like a paralyzer or banisher, to help out if needed.

My question is this: Are you finding that you are connecting (hitting) enough at end-game...
Follow-up: Would you consider 14 STR for a build like this?

Rydin, the 16 STR puts you in the ballpark to hit. No question. However, you are not a full time tank on this build. As a spellsinger, you technically have no melee responsibilies whatsoever. You are also well out of range of most baddies to have any need to raise your will save any higher. When I am in close, I just dont have much of an issue. Remember, since you arent front line, you simply arent getting hit with many will based attacks.

That being said... when the coast is clear, I can grab my vorpal, dreamsplitter, paralyzer, banisher, portal beater, or any dps weapon and connect. The damage and tohit are not on par with a true tank... nor should it be. But the 16 STR gives you just enough ooomph to hit. The -2 STR would not be good at all, and would definately hamper your ability to connect.

In conclusion, its nice to bump strength because you have all your other bases covered. Since you are not front line, saves and ac should never be a problem with a spellsinger, and since you can heal yourself, the only other stat left is strength. and that +2 STR bump will be very noticeable to this build.

[Comfortably]

In conclusion, its nice to bump strength because you have all your other bases covered. Since you are not front line, saves and ac should never be a problem with a spellsinger, and since you can heal yourself, the only other stat left is strength. and that +2 STR bump will be very noticeable to this build.

AC doesn't really matter on bard, even a melee spec'd bard. All you need is the Dissplacement spell(Spell level3 for bards) and a Stone Skin clicky from the shroud or the DQ raid to "hide" behind, they even sell wands of stone skin in the 12 if ya didnt want to make a clicky.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Thanks Comfy. Yeah... come to think of it you almost never see a great warchanter fight without displacement/stoneskin. Barkskin and blur can be used as well. Fireshield/shield can also be used. A spellsinger should not forget these buffs either if he/she switches to melee. I'll naturally sing inspire competence and hit inspire heroics on meself. Mississippee will be well buffed before I even think of meleeing. Lastly, I pop a haste pot and bang bang.

[Rydin_Dirtay]

Ah ok thanks for the info. Now...some follow-ups:
1. What about tactics and gear at the lower levels? Did you use Sword and board and fight more? Did you use something like a Lesser Devotion II shield? Did you stick back and heal at low levels? What use did you make of Charm, Hold, etc?

2. How much use of the bard song Fascinate do you use/did you use? Do you find parties zerging and thus not giving you much use of fascinate?

3. At higher levels, what type of gear would you typically use with this build? Mithral Breastplate? Or does the armor really not matter? Rings? helm? 100% fort item not needed, since you don't draw as much aggro and don't really melee?

I'm just trying to get an idea of the gear at the hi levels, and tactics at the low level. The tactics at high level have been explained pretty well.

[Zenako]

Some answers from my Bards (capped drow spellsinger, level 9 human spellsinger and level 5 human)

Ah ok thanks for the info. Now...some follow-ups:
1. What about tactics and gear at the lower levels? Did you use Sword and board and fight more? Did you use something like a Lesser Devotion II shield? Did you stick back and heal at low levels? What use did you make of Charm, Hold, etc?

At low levels (1-5)it tend to wear the best light armor I can, and look for a nice mithril light shield for when mixing it up. (No spell failure chance.) You can get into the mid 20's and that makes a differnce. I found some nice armor with perks like Hammerblock and Spearblock on them, which alos helps to avoid damage. Find the best weapon you can wield, something like a holy of PG is wonderful, or any elemental of PG is nice.

At mid level (6-12ish). You are moving into a realm where you have some CC spells to use, your Fascinate song can be deadly effective (95%) and you will be failing behind the curve in HP and AC in most cases and will need to adapt your style. I tend to look for nice Robes/outfits at this point, since they are instant change (unlike the armors which take time.) Fearsome is nice. Fearsome helps keep the incoming attacks to one and done. In melee I would continue with weapon DPS, but also look for weapons with special (power 5 and things like Cursespewing, Destruction, Shattermantle, etc.) I prefer to focus on those weapons which process on hits, not just crits.

At high level 13+, unless you are built and geared for melee, that will be your last resort. Songs, spells, buffs, effects all rule. I typically gear out in robes (Fearsome of the Magi to start with) and dual wield two meta weapons (Superior Potency 5/6 and a Greater Spell Pen 6) Helps make sure things land more often. Look for the Reaver Napkin as well. With a nice gear set up, you can make your songs still land 95% of the time (Perform skill into the 50's is not too hard to hit).


2. How much use of the bard song Fascinate do you use/did you use? Do you find parties zerging and thus not giving you much use of fascinate?

Parties that work with you can be great, but many times you are able to simply overpower the mobs with a full party so it becomes pointless, BUT, for those times when the bleep hits the fan, no one but a bard can put the whole battlefield on hold entranced, while you sort things out. In underpwered or low dps groups, I get to use Fascinate on set piece encounters, to limit the number of mobs being fought at one time.


3. At higher levels, what type of gear would you typically use with this build? Mithral Breastplate? Or does the armor really not matter? Rings? helm? 100% fort item not needed, since you don't draw as much aggro and don't really melee?

See above for some answers. Minos Helm is a current standard (but will diminish a bit in Mod9). I look for the effects of the armor more. Fearsome of Greater Acid Resistence, etc. I keep an almost entire hot bar of options avialable for quick changes as needed. Due to inate squishiness of many bards, having a Heavy Fort item is almost a must. You get Aggro from CC spells, so once the mob breaks free, you become a target. One triple damage crit from a giant / ogre can make you into floor paste without the Fortification.

I'm just trying to get an idea of the gear at the hi levels, and tactics at the low level. The tactics at high level have been explained pretty well.

[Rydin_Dirtay]

I tend to look for nice Robes/outfits at this point, since they are instant change (unlike the armors which take time.)

I will have to get over this philosophical opposition I have, to anything but Monks, Wiz, and Sorc wearing robes. I just think a Ranger and Bard ought to wear armor and not robes. I realize the value of the fast switching but it just grates me the wrong way. Maybe if Turbine changed dex/speed switching...

Thanks for the info on tactics and gear though. Seems like I don't see enough posts about that type of thing.

Another thing I don't see much of, is, what would a Bard keep on their #1 hotbar for quick number-key use? I'm going to assume something like a Cure spell, a good charm spell like Otto's, or Hold spell for sure, just for the quick moments when that Fiendish Ogre is bearing down on you, right?

[Zenako]

I will have to get over this philosophical opposition I have, to anything but Monks, Wiz, and Sorc wearing robes. I just think a Ranger and Bard ought to wear armor and not robes. I realize the value of the fast switching but it just grates me the wrong way. Maybe if Turbine changed dex/speed switching...

Thanks for the info on tactics and gear though. Seems like I don't see enough posts about that type of thing.

Another thing I don't see much of, is, what would a Bard keep on their #1 hotbar for quick number-key use? I'm going to assume something like a Cure spell, a good charm spell like Otto's, or Hold spell for sure, just for the quick moments when that Fiendish Ogre is bearing down on you, right?

Haste, Displacement? Kinda hard for me to say since I have 10 hot bars on screen all the time and switch the active one to match the situation. The Ultimate Charm spell is Fascinate, but it really helps to be hasted and displaced while doing the spiral death song sucking all the mobs into the area of effect.

While I somewhat agree on the armor/robe thoughts, I know I used armor when a wee one, but now that I am a "capped lord of song" I can get away with running around in my PJ's (Also not much difference in AC 24 vs AC 13 at capped encounters...grrr.) and when everyone is Stoneskinned the armor/robe being worn is hardly noticeable anymore...

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Ok before I get back to the gritty nitty of this thread, I'd like to thank everyone for keeping focused and on topic, for the most part.

Ah ok thanks for the info. Now...some follow-ups:
1. What about tactics and gear at the lower levels? Did you use Sword and board and fight more? Did you use something like a Lesser Devotion II shield? Did you stick back and heal at low levels? What use did you make of Charm, Hold, etc?

One word: Soundburst. On this build, soundburst at early levels is just earth-shattering. Many of the parties I've been in at lower levels have just walked through quests with wise use of this spell. And its a party friendly spell. Along with a tank using his intimidate ability, soundburst becomes just laughable. Rogues will love you long time after you hit soundburst. At the low levels learn your crowd control techniques. You will ALWAYS be potent at crowd control. The lower levels is where you try it all out. Get a feel for your charms, fascinate, hypnotism. You'll be healing as well.

At low levels, I would don a mithril shirt, the highest devotion shield you could get your hands on, at each level. You will be growing into higher quality mithril (I own a +5 fearsome mithral shirt which has been well worn) and a closet full of robes. But for the early mid level, keep the mithril and a shield on, and work your fortification up.

2. How much use of the bard song Fascinate do you use/did you use? Do you find parties zerging and thus not giving you much use of fascinate?

Fascinate is extremely powerful and under utilized. The quicker you are on your feet... and the more comfortable you are with your fascinates, the better you'll be at letting parties do your thing. PRACTICE. Fascinate has saved too many parties' arses I've been in. Remember this. FEW people appreciate the bard. But I've learned if you can HIT your CC (crowd control) you will continually get "wows" from the parties you are in, especially in pug groups. Your guildies will simply EXPECT you to hit your CC.

3. At higher levels, what type of gear would you typically use with this build? Mithral Breastplate? Or does the armor really not matter? Rings? helm? 100% fort item not needed, since you don't draw as much aggro and don't really melee?

You are dying for me to say heavy armor! But I will dissapoint you here. As most seasoned bards will tell you, buffs are your specialty. You will have every buff imaginable. And if you want to be effective, you will need to use them.

I have two modes in battle. Melee and non melee mode.

In non-melee situations:
armor: fearsome/heavy fortification, deathblock/invulnerability, fearsome/greater fire resist robes
weapons: Superior Potency VI and Greater Spell Pen VI
goggles: Greensteel CHA skills +3, Air Guard, Wizardry VI
helm: Helm of Free Will
necklace: Lorricks Necklace (Empower Healing II), Golden Cartouche (UMD 3)
cloak: all the greater resist cloaks, Napkin
belt: greater false life
gloves: Gauntles of Eternity (Superior Healing Lore)
boots: 30% striders
bracers: Enchantment/Evocation bracers until you get the napkin, AC + 6/7/8 bracers
rings: fill in the gaps here.. heavy fort, Con 4/6 ring, featherfall, disease, proof against poison

Melee mode:
make sure your con +6 strength +6 items are on, mithral chain or breastplate, minos helm, don your weapons and go to work!

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

I will have to get over this philosophical opposition I have, to anything but Monks, Wiz, and Sorc wearing robes. I just think a Ranger and Bard ought to wear armor and not robes. I realize the value of the fast switching but it just grates me the wrong way. Maybe if Turbine changed dex/speed switching...

Thanks for the info on tactics and gear though. Seems like I don't see enough posts about that type of thing.

Another thing I don't see much of, is, what would a Bard keep on their #1 hotbar for quick number-key use? I'm going to assume something like a Cure spell, a good charm spell like Otto's, or Hold spell for sure, just for the quick moments when that Fiendish Ogre is bearing down on you, right?

Buffs > ANY armor for a spell singer. I like to be able to click my robes/cloaks to fit the situation. You are always protected, so you can protect others. If something gets too close, irresistible dance will correct most wayward monsters... for a long time.

Bards have MANY bars on a screen. Remember we are UMD specialists, we can use ANY wands, even arcane wands, cure wands, clickies... we do A LOT. And it all needs to be represented on a bar.

My main bar is mobile.. all depending on the quest I'm doing. My thing is Irresistible dance. It sits on my #1 slot. If something gets too close, its going to dance school! The rest are heals and other CC spells.

[Rydin_Dirtay]

I have 10 hot bars on screen all the time and switch the active one to match the situation.

I too have about 6-7 hotbars on my screen with my fighter...but...

....I didn't realize you could SWITCH THE ACTIVE HOTBAR. I have hotbar #0 and it my number keys 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-0 are tied to those 10 spots on that one hotbar. If I want my rage ring clicky, for example, it is on hotbar #4, and I have to mouse-click on it to go active. Are you saying there is a way to quickly make Hotbar #4 the active? In other words can I quickly make my RING hotbar into the active, usable by number keys?

The Ultimate Charm spell is Fascinate, but it really helps to be hasted and displaced while doing the spiral death song sucking all the mobs into the area of effect.

sounds kinda fun

While I somewhat agree on the armor/robe thoughts, I know I used armor when a wee one, but now that I am a "capped lord of song" I can get away with running around in my PJ's (Also not much difference in AC 24 vs AC 13 at capped encounters...grrr.) and when everyone is Stoneskinned the armor/robe being worn is hardly noticeable anymore...

Good pt, I will have to get over it. But I will not be seen running around Stormreach in my PJ's. After quest is over, its into the mith chain shirt.

[Rydin_Dirtay]

You are dying for me to say heavy armor!

No, I'm not I don't expect a bard to be runnin around in full plate, just like I don't like the idea of a bard or ranger running around in robes, either...but I'll get used to it until Turbine changes that.

I have two modes in battle. Melee and non melee mode.

Thanks for the list of stuff. I didn't realize the value of fearsome.

It will be nice to lvl up a Bard, now that I've got my Fighter just about capped. I'm not going to build a Mississippee but it will be a similar spellsinger (and with 16 STR, and no Force of Personality, thanks to everyone's advice...). Like you said earlier in the thread...it is difficult to get all of the enhancements the way I'd like; If I go to Haggle IV, and Human Versatility IV, that can really eat up the enhancement points!

[DemonMage]

Are you saying there is a way to quickly make Hotbar #4 the active? In other words can I quickly make my RING hotbar into the active, usable by number keys?

By default shift+#, so shift+4 would make bar four active.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

I'm not going to build a Mississippee but it will be a similar spellsinger (and with 16 STR, and no Force of Personality, thanks to everyone's advice...). Like you said earlier in the thread...it is difficult to get all of the enhancements the way I'd like;

Hehe, you see my ego isnt so big that I'd be offended that you arent using my exact stats/feats/enhancements... like so many on the forums. I also wont sit and argue over whats "best" for a bard. Im glad you chose my thread to read and it appears you've learned a few things. THAT was my whole point of spending so much time on this thread.

The greatest thing about building a bard is the sheer variety of options. Looking forward to hearing how you like your new bard....

[Comfortably]

To much UMD? (Is it possible?)

19 ranks
14 cha mod (38cha)
4 GH
6 shroud cha skills item
5 Titan gloves
= 50 (Could add another 4 from human skill boost,3 from feat...but at that point its a waste?)

[Strakeln]

To much UMD? (Is it possible?)

19 ranks
14 cha mod (38cha)
4 GH
6 shroud cha skills item
5 Titan gloves
= 50 (Could add another 4 from human skill boost,3 from feat...but at that point its a waste?)

I've seen my hagglebard hit 60 something. Think she walks around with a 50.

I agree it's pointless but all she does is shop so no reason to lower it.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

50 standing UMD here. Theres no need for more. Golden Cartouche. Nothing more.

[Comfortably]

50 standing UMD here. Theres no need for more. Golden Cartouche. Nothing more.

50 standing with no buffs? I'd like to see the breakdown for that.

[Comfortably]

It seems to me like the more I play my bard, the more I notice that people don't know how to react when I fascinate something...

I will use Tangleroot as an example for a quest setting when Fascinate could be used to help the party. Part 5 when you have to get the key, I run ahead and hit fascinate right as I get close enough for the end of my song to hit them, the party comes up and BAM, nothing is held, thus defeating the point of me using that song...does it get better end game with the amount of people who know how to break one mob at a time? /rant off

[Zenako]

It seems to me like the more I play my bard, the more I notice that people don't know how to react when I fascinate something...

I will use Tangleroot as an example for a quest setting when Fascinate could be used to help the party. Part 5 when you have to get the key, I run ahead and hit fascinate right as I get close enough for the end of my song to hit them, the party comes up and BAM, nothing is held, thus defeating the point of me using that song...does it get better end game with the amount of people who know how to break one mob at a time? /rant off

Just need to spend some time up front letting them know what you are doing and how it works. Some CC is static and once held/stunned, etc does not break until the spell expires or they save, while something like Fascinate breaks upon taking any damage. Due to not many bards using it effectively you often need a BArd 101 primer up front. Did just that a few months back with my level 6/7 bard in Redwillow. Party talk was worried about how "tough" some of those fights would be. Should we only run it on normal? I told them not to worry, we can handle Hard with no problems, I would hit the mobs with my fascinate song, that they should then gang up on the mobs one by one and slaughter them. They also did not seem to realize how much of an advantage all the songs/buffs would give them as well. Was a pretty painless run, to the surprise of some of those who had probably not run with a knowledgeable bard.