Haggle Bard - Mississippi Queen

[Pintail]

Wes are the metamagic feats broken and if so should they be replaced?
Besides Glitter Dust what else effects the walking, stalking, damaging and spiteful undead?

[Dulcimerist]

With the 50% bonus cap to haggle benefits, is it now possible to have more haggle than is actually usable?
If so, what's the most haggle you can have before the game's new haggle limits kick in and not allow any further benefit?
Thanks!

[Gkar]

With the 50% bonus cap to haggle benefits, is it now possible to have more haggle than is actually usable?
If so, what's the most haggle you can have before the game's new haggle limits kick in and not allow any further benefit?
Thanks!

At regular vendors, no.

But at the places where you buy/sell if you are trying to "do it right", such as brokers and rep vendors, yes, a haggle bard will far exceed to max effective haggle. (max out would be in the 70s, depending which exact type of vendor we are talking about)

Also, since the value of the big selling items, weapons, has been cut in half. And since the BtC stuff you get from guild vendors is so cheap, I question the value of a haggle bard anymore. Mine just got rerolled as an Arti.

[Faent]

At regular vendors, no.

But at the places where you buy/sell if you are trying to "do it right", such as brokers and rep vendors, yes, a haggle bard will far exceed to max effective haggle. (max out would be in the 70s, depending which exact type of vendor we are talking about)

Also, since the value of the big selling items, weapons, has been cut in half. And since the BtC stuff you get from guild vendors is so cheap, I question the value of a haggle bard anymore. Mine just got rerolled as an Arti.

I don't understand your math. Suppose I have an item with a value of 8,000. At 80 Haggle, you would sell this to a broker for 2800. The change resulted in not being able to sell this item for more than 4000. At 120 Haggle, you would still only sell this item to a broker 3600. I fail to see why you are questioning the value of a Haggle Bard. Their value hasn't changed one wit if the release notes are correct. But perhaps you can explain yourself better?

[Dulcimerist]

I built, and have been enjoying the Spellsinger Mississippi a lot! (I did Veteran 7, and then used a Stone of Experience to jump past levels.)

I've been choosing the spells recommended in the build, but am wondering if Cure Light Wounds is a bit redundant and less-efficient in light of the other healing spells. If I swap it out, what other first-level spell would you recommend? (I have yet to fit a Striding item into my gear, so I wondered about Expeditious Retreat.)

What weapons would you recommend for this build? I chose the +2 Shock Quarterstaff for fun with the Veteran 7 starter choice, and am embarrassed to say that's still my main weapon.

Thanks! (Also thanks for this awesome thread!)

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

I built, and have been enjoying the Spellsinger Mississippi a lot! (I did Veteran 7, and then used a Stone of Experience to jump past levels.)

I've been choosing the spells recommended in the build, but am wondering if Cure Light Wounds is a bit redundant and less-efficient in light of the other healing spells. If I swap it out, what other first-level spell would you recommend? (I have yet to fit a Striding item into my gear, so I wondered about Expeditious Retreat.)

What weapons would you recommend for this build? I chose the +2 Shock Quarterstaff for fun with the Veteran 7 starter choice, and am embarrassed to say that's still my main weapon.

Thanks! (Also thanks for this awesome thread!)

Thanks for the props! I'm glad to see the build and thread (I'll always give props to the bard community) still influencing folks to play a bard.

As far as weapons, I created different weapon sets. Remember bards get longsword/rapier as well. There is no "only choice". You want to make sure you have healing (devotion only, potency will not help healing spells now!) and spell penetration are represented. Spell power for your sound based spells if thats your game. There are some great shields in the game now too.

Always be on the lookout for your best level appropriate damage weapons, especially in the beginning, and use your stoneskin/barkskin/blur/displacement buffs for protection!

[xrampage]

Question for all of you bard lovers, is it worth taking inspire excellence on a spellsinger designed for melee/healing? I'm not sure if I should take it at 21 and epic toughness at 24 or take epic toughness/epic mental toughness for more sp for when I have to hjealz, any input is appreciated

[Riekan]

Used to have a haggle bard way back, but she got rerolled when crafting came out. Now I'm thinking about rolling one up again. What are the current thoughts on going spell singer but using the Elyd's Edge as a mostly primary weapon for the charisma bonus to attack/damage?

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Used to have a haggle bard way back, but she got rerolled when crafting came out. Now I'm thinking about rolling one up again. What are the current thoughts on going spell singer but using the Elyd's Edge as a mostly primary weapon for the charisma bonus to attack/damage?

Spellsingers of almost any variety are "back" in a big way, thanks to the fatesinger destiny. There's just so many ways you can be productive, and Elyd's Edge continues to be a solid choice for Spellsinger melee combat.

A haggle bard was always useful thanks to its penchant for crowd control, even though our options seemed stale in the last year or two due to Turbine sitting on their hands and doing little to listen to the bard community's wishes.

So Riekan, its a stellar time to roll up a spell singer bard, as pushing haggle will have little to no effect on your end game bard, thanks to the Epic Destiny...

Just keep in mind with your songs and even a +1 weapon in your hand, your songs will allow you to hit your targets often. This gives you a multitude of ways to outfit your weaponry, especially when you hit 20 and start climbing your destiny.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Question for all of you bard lovers, is it worth taking inspire excellence on a spellsinger designed for melee/healing? I'm not sure if I should take it at 21 and epic toughness at 24 or take epic toughness/epic mental toughness for more sp for when I have to hjealz, any input is appreciated

Sorry xrampage that I missed your question.

Your gameplay and your current mana pool are the real indicators here. Lets assume you have just enough mana to get by, or you fall a tad bit short sometimes. My comment would be to take inspire excellence & epic toughness, because you can always sing your Vigor song before and in between battle. Don't forget your Spellsong Trance song as well, a +10% morale discount on spell point cost of spells for yourself and all allies within range. You shouldn't take Vigor or Trance songs lightly, even on a melee focused spellsinger bard.

There are other solutions of course, and the other obvious one is taking epic mental toughness if you feel you are constantly way short on mana, even if you are religious in singing your mana songs. In this case epic mental toughness + epic toughness is a solid choice.

[Dulcimerist]

Used to have a haggle bard way back, but she got rerolled when crafting came out. Now I'm thinking about rolling one up again. What are the current thoughts on going spell singer but using the Elyd's Edge as a mostly primary weapon for the charisma bonus to attack/damage?

I had completely forgotten that Elyd Edge uses charisma for attack and damage, even though I keep one in my haggle bard's inventory!

If your haggle bard wants a bludgeon weapon that uses charisma for attack and damage while levelling up, don't forget about this little gem:
http://ddowiki.com/page/Moonhowl_Axe

[Faent]

I'm revisiting the value of a Haggle Bard now. And by Haggle Bard, I mean a bard that aims for MAX Haggle. Currently, my Spell Singer has both Negotiator and Skill Focus: Haggle. I will likely be dropping these feats. That's a mere +5 to Haggle, and I could pick up Two Weapon Fighting and Improved Two Weapon Fighting instead.

There are already some massive boosts to Haggle available. Level 20 to 25 is itself +5 to Haggle. Then, of course, you can twist in more Haggle. And there's more CHA available now. Hitting 54 CHA on a first life bard is trivial. Thus the two feats devoted to Haggle are starting to look very lackluster. I have two Epic Elyd Edges, and I think I'll be taking more advantage of them in the future.

So long, Haggle Bard. You'll still Haggle well, but you won't have MAX Haggle anymore

[Backley]

I had completely forgotten that Elyd Edge uses charisma for attack and damage, even though I keep one in my haggle bard's inventory!

If your haggle bard wants a bludgeon weapon that uses charisma for attack and damage while levelling up, don't forget about this little gem:
http://ddowiki.com/page/Moonhowl_Axe

Or for slashing damage: DDO Store Bouquet of Flowers http://itemwiki.cubicleninja.com/ite...spx?itemid=387

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

So long, Haggle Bard. You'll still Haggle well, but you won't have MAX Haggle anymore

That's a very wise choice!

[Dulcimerist]

I've been following the Spellsinger version of Mississippi Queen, and jumped to level 16 with a Stone of Experience. How often do you find your bard having to make will saves? I've been tempted to swap my Negotiator feat for Force of Personality, since it would give my bard a +11 swing to his will saves. Might that be worth it, even though my bard tends to stay back and do crowd control and healing? I haven't had enough gaming time on my bard yet to get a good idea of how often he has to make will saves. Thanks!

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

I've been following the Spellsinger version of Mississippi Queen, and jumped to level 16 with a Stone of Experience. How often do you find your bard having to make will saves? I've been tempted to swap my Negotiator feat for Force of Personality, since it would give my bard a +11 swing to his will saves. Might that be worth it, even though my bard tends to stay back and do crowd control and healing? I haven't had enough gaming time on my bard yet to get a good idea of how often he has to make will saves. Thanks!

Hola Dulcimerist! I wouldnt, personally, but it always remains an option for a bard that lives on the inside. My will save is 28 with zero buffs, ship buffs and self buffs. 34 with GH and ship buffs alone. I don't get caught enough to warrant using a valuable feat slot for it. Remember, casters/clerics are my "natural born enemy", and should be yours as well, so those of high intellect or wisdom are my first target for CC.

Here are the 8 selectable heroic feats I recommend if not going haggle/negotiator:

1. toughness
2. empower heal
3. extend
4. spell focus: enchantment
5. greater spell focus: enchantment
6. spell penetration
7. greater spell penetration
8. heighten

Epic feats:
1. epic spell penetration
2. whatever you like! (epic spell focus: enchantment for max CC love, Inspire Excellence for more bard buff love)

[NovaNZ]

Question for all of you bard lovers, is it worth taking inspire excellence on a spellsinger designed for melee/healing? I'm not sure if I should take it at 21 and epic toughness at 24 or take epic toughness/epic mental toughness for more sp for when I have to hjealz, any input is appreciated

Hail Xrampage.

This is probably not the right OP for this so ill keep it short. (with permission Leslie )

I believe Inspire Excellence beats epic mental toughness hands down.

You have songs and pots and gear to regain SP. The extra +2 to all stats (potentially to all party members) is of much more advantage to both you and the party as opposed to some extra SP.

GL

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Hail Xrampage.

This is probably not the right OP for this so ill keep it short. (with permission Leslie )

I believe Inspire Excellence beats epic mental toughness hands down.

You have songs and pots and gear to regain SP. The extra +2 to all stats (potentially to all party members) is of much more advantage to both you and the party as opposed to some extra SP.

GL

Always great advice, NovaNZ!

[Hobgoblin]

with all the changes to equipment, what do you run now?

I have a queen that i finally got around to capping (20)- and i am not exactly happy with her.

I have 320ish hp - no gs items on her, no epics

what sort o gear you recommend

Adache on gland.

thanks!

hob

[Winter_storm]

I see this build still going and kept updated. Nice...