Haggle Bard - Mississippi Queen

[Adaram64]

No, money is actually very easy to come by in this game. On a typical high-level quest(level 16+), I'll usually end up selling items for approximately 10k-20k platinum when I'm done. Something like the Shroud(8 chests plus the end reward) will give you much more than that. Add in the occasional item sold on the auction house, and you won't have to ever worry about running out of money after roughly 12th level. I use my bard to buy supplies, but I've never bothered maxing out his haggle beyond what it normally is. That way, I have a character I like that also happens to get really good deals.

Thanks for the information! This makes me feel better for sure. I am not sure I'll have time to run up a high level Bard with my casual play nature, so knowing that money is not a huge issue is helpful.

[Freeman]

Thanks for the information! This makes me feel better for sure. I am not sure I'll have time to run up a high level Bard with my casual play nature, so knowing that money is not a huge issue is helpful.

For a casual player, it definitely isn't worth it. Without even trying, I realized my barbarian(-2 Haggle) had just over 100k plat last weekend. Most of my other high-level characters are in the same ballpark. If you don't spend a large amount of time playing, you'll make more money doing occasional loot runs with existing characters than rolling up a new character solely for that purpose.

[muffinlad]

I am new. Is money so hard to come by in this game that it is worth considering leveling a character all the way to 16 to get reduced prices and have more money for your other characters?

Short Answer- Yes, it will enhance your ability to gain items and resources.

Longer Answer- See above and add- Though it is not a requirement by any means.

Do you enjoy paying full price, or more than full price for any item? Do you simply not care? Then don't worry about it.

However, as resources become a drain, it is nice to have a pile of cash to call on to get you those 100 crit heal pots, the 100 remove curse pots etc. that you need.

If you get a Bard with 60+haggle, you are buying and selling at a much, much better rate than others. Anytime you have one toon with 7-9 more haggle than nother toon, let along 30 to 40, plop high value items in the mail, and get more cash. Need scrolls by the truckload? The haggle bard comes in very handy.

Not a requirment by any means, but a very nice to have.

muffinhaggler

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

how long would it take to get a bard to lvl 16?

If youd just like to build a bard like I built, or like wazzys build, without any of the shroud crafting or hard-to-find items, I would recommend maybe playing just a little more, just for a few days, so you can level him up. You can "power level" him in a few days or weeks. Not really very long if you think about it. Just run the high xp quests. Make sure you complete Delera's, so you can get the Voice of the Master. Equipping it will net you 5% MORE xp on every quest you run.

Bard builds are all very popular. Healing and buffing is almost always going to be appreciated in each quest you run.

[muffinlad]

If youd just like to build a bard like I built, or like adaram built, without any of the shroud crafting or hard-to-find items, I would recommend maybe playing just a little more, just for a few days, so you can level him up. You can "power level" him in a few days or weeks. Not really very long if you think about it. Just run the high xp quests. Make sure you complete Delera's, so you can get the Voice of the Master. Equipping it will net you 5% MORE xp on every quest you run.

Bard builds are all very popular. Healing and buffing is almost always going to be appreciated in each quest you run.

Let me second this as well. My bard, CB, Heals, Haggles and Holds.

1) I have two heal type spells, wands, and scrolls (heal and mcm) to suplement healing. I have main healed on quests, even raids, and solo healed on several.

2) Drow build (so no human skill bump), base Haggle at 68 with all my current gear, not counting Charisma Sword (just building it, but have my +6 skill goggles), or potions, or other bard bump. (I usually will buff other bards I see as a greeting, and many other bards do the same. We are a singy kind of folk).

3) My other spells and tactics are focused on Holding (Hold Monster, Hypno, Sound Burst, Greater Shout) and combined with Facinate, this gives me a good shot at stopping monsters and letting fighters pick them off. I tend not to swing too much or have a high kill count, and the character is not about soloing.

One change to the build I am considering for a new toon is 14 bard/rogue 2 to give me evasion, but I don't really need another Hagglebot build.

I know that most drow Bard 8/Rogue 2's are going to have a better Haggle than most of your other toons, so if you get bored with it, you really don't have to play it too frequently to still get plenty of value at the mart.

muffinbarg

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Some things I would also consider about max stat build.

1.How many times do you get someone else's bard to buff your bard to go shopping?
2.Is it better to use a house D potion (charisma) for shopping or in combat for spell dc?
3.How long does it take to aquire a head of good fortune in todays reaver quest?
4.Is there really going to be a monk with you when you shop?
5.How long does it take to get a tier 3 weapon?


My answers for me personally...

1. My bard may have been buffed by another bard for shopping once or twice ever.
If I am on my bard, everone else is playing a different class in my party.

2. I don't carry the house D potions for either and could only see ussing them if I
had 15 or more items to sell at once.

3. I have done the reaver about 30 times and have never seen a head of good fortune
drop yet. (my luck)

4. Typically when I am shopping everyone else is running to where the quest is.

5. I currently have 3 characters with tier 2 items and ZERO tier 3 items after about
20-25 shroud runs.

I really appreciate your feedback. Unlike many on the forums, you offer a good counter point without putting down the OPs build. There are always 2 sides to a coin.

To answer your questions:

1. How many times do you get someone else's bard to buff your bard to go shopping?
4. Is there really going to be a monk with you when you shop?

This is primarily for the Guild "buyers". When your haggle is in this range, your guild will probably want to "hire" your services to buy scrolls and wands for the guild's healers. The +4 haggle from these two buffs will give you a steeper discount. If a guildie or two arent on, knowing the other hagglebards and monks that are also into smart shopping can prove quite beneficial... geeze this kinda works like the real world now doesnt it!!??

2. Is it better to use a house D potion (charisma) for shopping or in combat for spell dc?

I send all items 20,000 gold or higher to Mississippee. I wait till I get 3 backpacks filled before I sell. I do three runs. One run to House K for armor, One run to House D for weapons, and one trip to the Rusty Nail for everything else.

3. How long does it take to aquire a head of good fortune in todays reaver quest?

Well its not as easy to acquire as before, due to the "upgrade" to the reaver, but if you have the right party, the quest just takes about 10 minutes longer... and its pretty much a guarantee on the 20th run. Sadly, like most good items, nothing is a 100% guarantee..

5. How long does it take to get a tier 3 weapon?

Remember, this build is best for the player who plays. A casual gamer wont find the desire to build this item most likely. However, for those of us that play daily, its not that hard to get this item crafted. Having multiple toons that run the shroud is ideal to getting this item crafted faster.

[Return_To_Forever]

Can I have your monies?

See, I like the monies, and I want it. Since you will have lots of monies, you can surely give me lots.

ty

[Zenako]

To those who asked how much it matters. Just some rough examples to help illustrate.

Non Haggle toon selling 100K in items at the barkeep - gets 10K
Non Haggle toon selling same 100K in items at the broker - gets 15 K

Haggle toon with lets say 60 haggle (very straight forward and no feats used) sells that same 100K in items at the broker for 30K

Right there you have increased the value of the loot you sell by more than double. Rinse and repeat each time and it quickly, very quickly adds up.

If you assume that every time you quest you incure expenses (repair, potions, scrolls, etc) of 5K lets factor that in too.

Non Haggle toon selling at the barkeep nets 10K-5k = 5K
Haggel toon at the brokers nets 30K-5K = 25K

A final net after expenses of 5 times more gold


Now when it comes to buying stuff, the percentage changes are not quite as dramatic, but look at this. One CSW Wand retails fo 16,500 gold IIRC. A 60 haggle will get that same wand for around 9800 gold. Quite a savings.

So if you run that non haggle toon, just selling at the barkeep, after about 3 times he has enough to buy 1 CSW Wand. While after just one sales run with the haggle toon at the brokers, you could almost buy 3. Now it is about and 8 to 1 advantage.

If I can buy 8 wands in the time you can afford to buy but 1, then I can easily afford to blow charges, use consumable, etc and not worry about the cost.

THe synergy REALLY adds up a lot.


PS: Whenever I am in House D brokers and I see other bards "shopping/selling" I drop a Inspire Competence on them and 9 times out of 10 they reciprocate the favor. The other day 5 out of 6 toons in the shop were level 16 bards...was a kinda songfesty time....

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

If you assume that every time you quest you incure expenses (repair, potions, scrolls, etc) of 5K lets factor that in too.

Non Haggle toon selling at the barkeep nets 10K-5k = 5K
Haggel toon at the brokers nets 30K-5K = 25K

A final net after expenses of 5 times more gold


Now when it comes to buying stuff, the percentage changes are not quite as dramatic, but look at this. One CSW Wand retails fo 16,500 gold IIRC. A 60 haggle will get that same wand for around 9800 gold. Quite a savings.

So if you run that non haggle toon, just selling at the barkeep, after about 3 times he has enough to buy 1 CSW Wand. While after just one sales run with the haggle toon at the brokers, you could almost buy 3. Now it is about and 8 to 1 advantage.

If I can buy 8 wands in the time you can afford to buy but 1, then I can easily afford to blow charges, use consumable, etc and not worry about the cost.

THe synergy REALLY adds up a lot.

Thats a great breakdown. Excellent way to simplify the math...

[hannika]

Im talking about all the will based spells. Heck, even hypnotize can be effective in the Vale... I just dont know how you can say you are a spell slinger if you dont insure that your spells are going to hit MOST EFFECTIVELY.

the vale is not endgame content.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

the vale is not endgame content.

No it isnt, but the Vale is a money maker.. and crowd control was the topic. I was just making the point that my wizard can bypass any spell resistance that's bypass-able, at a higher rate than most, because I took spell pen all the way. I was raising the point that spell pen SHOULD BE equally important to a bard. You are the bomb at bard, Abi, whats your opinion?

[hannika]

I was raising the point that spell pen SHOULD BE equally important to a bard. You are the bomb at bard, Abi, whats your opinion?

a bard can do everything in the game to get thier spell pen up and it's still not going to be as high as a wizard or sorc, and imo a bard trying for a high spell pen is wasting points in charisma that they could put somewhere more usefull.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

imo a bard trying for a high spell pen is wasting points in charisma that they could put somewhere more usefull.

Spoken like the true "Goddess of Battle Bards" that I know and admire! However, CHA is maxed mainly because of Haggle and spell points. Mississippee is not designed to melee. She is a very solid healer, buffer, and shopper. At end game the three most important things I can do is heal, buff, and cure. However, it would be nice if I can get her to use her mana pool to cast other spells to assist the casters and melees get the kill. And I want those spells to stick.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

So, are there any spell slingers that want to talk about how effective or ineffective your crowd control is in the high end content?

[Dozen_Black_Roses]

I have very good spell pen on my spellsinger bard on Thelanis....in shroud my dancing balls catch most things 90% of the time, in the subterranean it is not as good, so there I will use the irresistable dance (whichever the high lvl one is, not sure of the name) and that gets everything except red names of course. Also your basic spells like glittering dust is very useful to blind the devils in both areas so they dont teleport and get the miss chance on their hits. She is not a haggle bot, but does ok. I am there more to buff the party, CC, and supplement healing as needed. She is not a tank, and I dont delude myself that I am one. Nice thread hun, glad to see the trolls behaved themselves but just in case here....

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

in shroud my dancing balls catch most things 90% of the time, in the subterranean it is not as good, so there I will use the irresistable dance (whichever the high lvl one is, not sure of the name) and that gets everything except red names of course. Also your basic spells like glittering dust is very useful to blind the devils in both areas so they dont teleport and get the miss chance on their hits.

THAT is what I was hoping to hear, and from a quality player I know and respect, this news makes me convinced I have the mix I'm looking for.

I will discuss the spell pen in more detail as I level up. So far, at level 7 (rank 2), my spells are sticking, I have led PUG groups as the main and only healer, and my haggle is 29 already with just a +5 haggle item, Eagle Splendor wand (or house P buff, or +3 CHA item), human versatility and focusing chant. No outside buffs of any kind. And I havent taken any enhancements or feats yet to start increasing my haggle. Level 9 is when I take Negotiator, and Haggle starts to come into its own. So far Mississippee is very solid healer and buffer with excellent crowd control (made CR13 giants in Redwillow elite dance at will, as a level 6). He doesnt feel gimped at all, which was a surprise. Just remember AC and tank abilities are not focuses of this build, so you are NOT a front line melee. You need to MOVE and watch your party.. and help them succeed. She's been very fun to play, so far.

[grimlock30]

My bard has both sell pen feats. and spell pen enhancements I +II. When i'm disco balling and dancing i use a enchantment septer of spell pen VI and most mobs start dancing. On harder dificutys i'll drop the mind fog as well. The guys i roll with don't want discoballs in the shroud (they say it causes lag) so now i glitterdust portals while Keeping the party buffed with songs and hasted(let the bard do this casters save your higher dc mana for the killin")
I'm a moderate player (20ish hrs a week) and I my bard was my second capped toon and now that i have other toons with low haggles my bard is worth his weight in plat. expecally with my WF toons (repair pots-don't expect much from clerics i party with).
My next shroud item in the works is a spell points/devotion/cha skills +3 item

Just rember the bard imo "plays best with others" through in a pali with the +ac aura you can run with jut about any compination of classes.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

enchantment scepter of spell pen VI --> nice item. I will also be searching for the Napkin in Reaver raid. That takes care of the enchantment... and i can wield a greater spell pen V item instead that gives my a +3 to spell pen

[EinarMal]

a bard can do everything in the game to get thier spell pen up and it's still not going to be as high as a wizard or sorc, and imo a bard trying for a high spell pen is wasting points in charisma that they could put somewhere more usefull.

This is simply not true spell penetration is caster levels + spell penetration enhancements + spell penetration feats + spell penetration items.

You are talking about spell DC which is an entirely different thing, and yes since Bards max out at level 6 spells they are going to be 3 behind a wizard/sorc.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

This is simply not true spell penetration is caster levels + spell penetration enhancements + spell penetration feats + spell penetration items.

Thank you for the math on figuring out the max spell penetration EinarMal. So, what do you think is the likeliness Mississippee's spells "sticking" in high level content? So far, at level 7, its scaling quite well. Im also thinking of swapping something out to get glitterdust.

To be CLEAR on the difference between spell penetration (SP) and difficulty checks (DCs) for those that dont understand it well, the DC is the number the target has to roll to save vs. the spell. Every target gets a saving throw vs. spells that allow a save. Spell Resistance is the number the caster has to roll to beat (or I guess equal, to be totally correct) to affect the target (which is still entitled to a saving throw if the spell allows it). This is called a caster's Spell Penetration.

So as long as I can penetrate their spell resistance ... I'll give em a chance to save. If they have to roll... I feel I've won already!