Reaver Redux

[Uska]

Of course it's a fun raid for casters. Clerics too if they don't need to healbot. The problem is there are 7 non-caster, non-cleric classes in DDO. For these 7 classes (well maybe 6 if you discount bard), this raid is LESS interesting than it use to be.

How can it be less interesting when 90% of the group just stood there before?

[Jay203]

How can it be less interesting when 90% of the group just stood there before?

because now you can't even just stand there anymore
the ele's overruns everything and after 4th orb is up, there's a chance you get tossed into the middle and UP UP UP you go (into the spikes >_>)

so what used to be just standing around being safe is now running for your life =_=;;;

[Uska]

because now you can't even just stand there anymore
the ele's overruns everything and after 4th orb is up, there's a chance you get tossed into the middle and UP UP UP you go (into the spikes >_>)

so what used to be just standing around being safe is now running for your life =_=;;;

Just standing there had be about as boring as watching grass grow I would say its more iteresting now and less a easy free chance at tomes.

[Korvek]

How can it be less interesting when 90% of the group just stood there before?

Didn't they /dance2 there? Far more interesting than just standing.

[Lithic]

How can it be less interesting when 90% of the group just stood there before?

Because melees USE to be able to at least swing at the fire and earth elementals in the puzzle room. The earth had especially high fort saves, so were usually best taken down by firewall + melees anyway. Now they don't even get that chance.

[Uska]

Because melees USE to be able to at least swing at the fire and earth elementals in the puzzle room. The earth had especially high fort saves, so were usually best taken down by firewall + melees anyway. Now they don't even get that chance.

Well I say good as I am usually playing a clericvor a caster and the people just piking annoyed me now if they do that they may die or just get tossed about which is at least more fun for me.

[noinfo]

[QUOTE=Dirac;1983191]

Perhaps this meant that the raid was too easy and the disadvantages were worse than the advantages of having such a raid in the game, I don't know. I don't expect any developers to give answers, or even acknowledge the situation; but I humbly ask one thing.

QUOTE]

Of course it was supposed to be easy. It is a level 14 Raid being run by level 16's with level 14 raid level loot. If you want to make it challenging to level 16's then up the loot to that of Hound/Shroud/VOD, re level it as a level 16/17 quest.

All it has become is a DPS fest and like many others am not interested in running it. Instead of Reaver flagging I am considering just going straight to the vale and flagging for shroud.

There have been many good suggestions for making the raid fun. These have been ignored. There are some people who enjoy the new changes, considering the drop in reavers I would say they are in the minority.

[Lithic]

Well I say good as I am usually playing a clericvor a caster and the people just piking annoyed me now if they do that they may die or just get tossed about which is at least more fun for me.

After a comment like that I am very gratefull you are on Gallanda. You obviously missed the point of my original post.

[Uska]

After a comment like that I am very gratefull you are on Gallanda. You obviously missed the point of my original post.

No I just thought it was pointless as they lazy pikers cant do that any more I like the REaver more now then before. and I am on more then just Ghallanda( none of the other characters I would wish to use are showing up) just not on Argo, so you can sleep easy.

[Aussieee]

which means the change was an epic failure
i'd rather have him summon some red named earth ele for us to deal with than 20+ air eles with sup'ed up saves and hp tossing everyone around

WRONG-just get a charge you won't get tossed around it's that simple.People really need to get a charge even if you have no mana,that will save all of your problems.

[Uska]

WRONG-just get a charge you won't get tossed around it's that simple.People really need to get a charge even if you have no mana,that will save all of your problems.

Yes but they need to let the casters/clerics get their charge first, only times I have trouble lately is when you have to many people crowding up to get a charge and the clerics cant get a charge, I amost WoR out of one group of idiots doing this as I nearly ran out of sp and they would only back out of the way when I said I wasnt going to heal anyone anymore until I could get a charge(was sole healer type in group)

[Solmage]

I use a combination of max empowered scorching rays and sup glaciation viii polar rays + fireballs + cones of cold, and the odd firewall (I don't place it where the reaver charges in after each fly up to avoid stealing the tank's aggro)

I also throw in double enervates and finger them. I find that with 4 slightly overlapping dancing balls, it stops the elementals long enough to either finger or blast. (If you fail the finger, which sometimes happens, use the cooldown to throw in another enervate and finger again)

It's very important, specially if you're the only caster, to keep yourself on a charge at all times, and to get a charge just before the last ball lights up. Then use up your mana as quickly as you get it! Blast as if it having mana were yucky!

If you're on a melee, break out those w/p's and get a charge. With a charge, you'll be immune to the knockdown and will be able to contribute a lot more. If you're a ranger, break out the w/p bow and many shot the ellies with improved precise shot.

Now, is the raid more fun? I think so. But that's just because before it was BORING AS HECK, and I personally felt rather annoyed at people going afk for breakfast or whatever during the 'raid' instead of just taking out a wounding bow and TRYING to contribute.

So it being 'more fun' than before does NOT mean that it's actually fun. In fact, it's a drag, and the very low raid loot and tome drop rate, which was appropriate for the snooze fest it used to be, adds to the detriment on wanting to run this.

[Solmage]

nope
not while you're getting tossed for getting into melee range

If you approach a dancing (or otherwise immobile) elemental CAREFULLY so that you're JUST within reach of your rapier, you can swing at it without triggering the knockdown. I used to routinely kill 2-3 elementals with my paly before I learned the bit about a charge making you immune to knockdown.

[Jay203]

WRONG-just get a charge you won't get tossed around it's that simple.People really need to get a charge even if you have no mana,that will save all of your problems.

try telling that to the people that hogs the charges :P

[HeavenlyCloud]

I still have fun going afk in there and staying alive.

This raid now includes a lot more people, i do miss the earth and fire ellies at the puzzle tho. Just need more variety in the raid, throw a couple of earth and fire elementals here and there, maybe even a Blahish here and there and this raid becomes a huge success!!!!

[esoitl]

So, about the same. That's cool. Are you seeing about the same number of reaver runs being done then, post MoD 8?

Hard to say for me personally because I play in an odd time zone(in Korea). I still get on at times and see 2-3 up as was the norm before. You also have to take into account that with the Shroud, Vision of Destruction, and Hound of Xoriat that now there are better loot drops and the Reaver is no longer the best farm for a tome. I think this is taking a portion of the Reaver runs and the change has turned off some but not all.

I'd say they went down but the reason might not be because of the changes. When it was first changed I think my groups failed once or twice but I think the tactics are honed again to the point where it's hard to fail, just takes a bit longer and isn't a bore-fest instakill everything.

To those with melee classes..... it's never been that good of a run for you, you have to admit. Often even if melee got to swing at the fire or earth elementals you still saw them getting killed by FoD, PK, Destruction, or Banishment. The saves were upped, that doesn't work and now the method of killing is pure damage spells and melee still don't get a lot of action.

I don't see how it is an epic fail, or a fail at all, making a quest more difficult to complete unless it is over the to phard, which this isn't.

[Frodo_Lives]

I used to see at least 3 or 4 LFMs every couple of hours at night, now I see maybe 1 a night.

It's still not hard, but it is less fun. Air elementals are the most annoying mob in the game bar none. So to take out the earth and fire elementals at the end I might as well not even be there on a melee.

Before the change I could grab a Reaver run on any class without a long wait. Since the change I have to look for a group and grab one early on my melee, or start my own and have it take 3x as long to fill as it used to.

That alone means the change, at least for most people who play the game, not just the ones on the forums, it has made the Reaver worse. Epic fail? Maybe not, but it was a bad move which made one of the most common LFMs into a fairly rare one.

[Korvek]

No I just thought it was pointless as they lazy pikers cant do that any more I like the REaver more now then before.

Yes they can.

[Dirac]

I used to see at least 3 or 4 LFMs every couple of hours at night, now I see maybe 1 a night.

It's still not hard, but it is less fun. Air elementals are the most annoying mob in the game bar none. So to take out the earth and fire elementals at the end I might as well not even be there on a melee.

Before the change I could grab a Reaver run on any class without a long wait. Since the change I have to look for a group and grab one early on my melee, or start my own and have it take 3x as long to fill as it used to.

That alone means the change, at least for most people who play the game, not just the ones on the forums, it has made the Reaver worse. Epic fail? Maybe not, but it was a bad move which made one of the most common LFMs into a fairly rare one.

This is very consistant with my observations. A number of people have chimed in here saying how they like the changes, but no one has mentioned they are running it more with the changes. Esoiti mentions that the number of LFM's hasn't changed much, but this is very different than my obsevations.

I can't stress this point enough: Please, someone in charge needs to collect the data on how often the raid is being run after the changes, and at least discuss if this is a good or bad thing.

[Memnir]

Annoying changes or not - at least it's a bit more challenging now. And frankly, I see it being run (and in turn am running it) just as often as ever.

So, they took some of the cheese out of the easiest loot run in the game - big deal. It's still fast, simple, and relatively painless. The raid now takes equal parts of a little bit of paying attention, a little bit of communication, and a spot of teamwork... instead of just letting one tank get agro and letting the mage(s) one-shot the elementals as they get fly-papered in the disco balls.

Adapt or avoid - but I think the changes were appropriate and not in the least uncalled for. They took the auto-pilot factor out of the raid, and I applaud that.