How would you answer the following question?

[Zenako]

Let's add a few more things. Starting dex of 14. How about luck bonuses. How about the reflex save bonuses that a rogue or monk gets by taking rogue and/or monk lvls. How about feat bonuses to reflex saves. How about recitation from a cleric who can give you 3+ mins of it.

I didn't say it would get good enough for elite, high-end content. Just good enough to be extremely worthwhile.

But the Rogue or Monk levels invalidate the original premise of "pure fighter" I thought we were working from. And pretty much everyone gets some sort of enhancement bonus available to them. Be it a fixed Racial bonus, or a temp boost for 20 seconds.

I overlooked the luck bonus (+2 from Head).

You could also be fortunate and be playing next to a saves boosting Paly too.

Can you get to some pretty high numbers, yup, lots of ways, but many of them are not 24/7, or survive debuffing/death. Almost any level 16 FTR will be about 10 points behind in REF save given similar gear and circumstances an Evasion build. Now if you can get that SAVE high enough to overcome the mobs on all but a 1, the extra margin of save the evasion build gets is wasted, but that also allows them to perhaps swap in other gear instead to those slots.

[Makdar]

should never be evasion period

I see your sig. A true PnPer. You must hate the enhancement system right?

I think giving evasion or something like evasion to lvl 20 fighters could be called blasphemous to some, but on the other hand, that's working through 19 levels without it. Any chance there's an epic feat that allows one to get evasion? If so, this would seem a little less blasphemous to true PnPers.

Thing is. In the end, Turbine decides what this game is.

[Zenako]

I have a 14ftr 2rouge that does quite well. His standing reflex with no buffs is a 22, his AC only drops by 2 when going from MFP to MBP, he has a 32 Str and 402 unbuffed HP. He is by no means the be all end all killer but he does quite well even in kobold elite. I think that I made the correct choices with this toon thus far as he is very fun to play.

The whole point was about a PURE fighter, not a melee character. I personally have no fighter in double digit level who has not splashed something. Clearly a splash built with forethought for the splash will do better than a splash being tacked onto the later levels.

Also OP I believe you need to be LAWFUL to take monk, so if that is not the case, then the whole monk thought is moot.

[Makdar]

But the Rogue or Monk levels invalidate the original premise of "pure fighter" I thought we were working from. And pretty much everyone gets some sort of enhancement bonus available to them. Be it a fixed Racial bonus, or a temp boost for 20 seconds.

I overlooked the luck bonus (+2 from Head).

You could also be fortunate and be playing next to a saves boosting Paly too.

Can you get to some pretty high numbers, yup, lots of ways, but many of them are not 24/7, or survive debuffing/death. Almost any level 16 FTR will be about 10 points behind in REF save given similar gear and circumstances an Evasion build. Now if you can get that SAVE high enough to overcome the mobs on all but a 1, the extra margin of save the evasion build gets is wasted, but that also allows them to perhaps swap in other gear instead to those slots.

I stand corrected. Guess I've already decided to splash my fighter for the next 4 levels. There's no point in capstone for fighters Turbine, just give up on it.

[Calozz78]

Capstone has to be amazing to stay pure.

[Makdar]

Clearly a splash built with forethought for the splash will do better than a splash being tacked onto the later levels.

Also OP I believe you need to be LAWFUL to take monk, so if that is not the case, then the whole monk thought is moot.

1) In this case it's only marginally better. Yes, rogue at level one makes for a better build, but it's not the end of the world if one didn't go that way. It's really evasion that one wants, the additional skill points are gravy.

2) I happen to have Ebberon's only Lawful Good Drow. (ok, maybe not Ebberon's only, it's just lawful good drow seems like an oxymoron) So I can take two levels of monk if I wish and take the 2 +1 dex stat enhancements drow get. The reflex save keeps going up.

[bobbryan2]

should never be evasion period

I agree.

Of course.. I should be able to slip on that ring of evasion too...