Big Can of Worms!

[Inspire]

Fortification in DDO does not prevent stat damage.

Edit; Ninja!

[baddax]

You want an easy fix to Wop and stat damagers i think Fixing Fortification for mobs would go along way to fixing the problems... Not sure of the implimentation in D&D but i think implementing it like SR would go along way towards balancing the game the way that SR has brung casters back into line with the rest of the pack. ie make mobs on normal have 25%, fort mobs on hard 75% and elite 100% with modifications for rogue and fighter crit enhancements and seeker items appropriate.

[Borror0]

Fortification is a bad idea 'cause it won't prevent puncturing and will upset the rogues, barbarians and fighters.

The answer to the WoP problem is to lower mobs' HP.

[baddax]

Ok I understand how fortification currently works as I had a thread where i believe some of you popsted there also. I would like to thank you for your replies. My question is this would it be a possible fix to create a system using the fortification system that is in place to make a level playing field. I realize just adding Fortification to the game would not be a complete fix but if they messhed both tyoes of crits ie proc's/effects with a standard crit. This also might be a way to bring the barbarian crit rage back in to line. Im not suggesting this to be an end al be all fix but maybe some tweaking could be done here to help with some of the current problems in DDO. just a thought. From my understanding the Vast majority of mob Do not have fortification, so this suggests that this system is Broken like SR was a few mods ago. I think the changes in Sr only helped balance the game and make it more enjoyable. Maybe just maybe fortification could be reintroduced and balanced like the current SR system we have in place.

[Paragon]

Fortification is a bad idea 'cause it won't prevent puncturing and will upset the rogues, barbarians and fighters.

The answer to the WoP problem is to lower mobs' HP.

QFT. Don't make DPS take so long and there will be more balance between that and W/P. No one in their right minds will sit around beating on a mob with a dps stick when it has a million hp and a more reasonable amount of con.

[baddax]

Not sure how lowering mobs hit points will solve the problem. I have a rogue that uses stat damagers and routinely hits for 60 a swing with Wop's. Wouldnt this just make them die quicker? Also, by lower the hit points to mobs wouldnt that put us back to mod 6 when caster DPs ruled the day?

[Borror0]

My question is this would it be a possible fix to create a system using the fortification system that is in place to make a level playing field.

That might sound like an odd question to you but: Why would you do that?!

[Borror0]

Not sure how lowewring mobs hit points will solve the problem.

Everything is good by comparison. WoP is good because it is better than DPS.

If you lower HP, DPS takes less time and will be better than stat-damage because it will kill faster.

Wouldnt this just make them die quicker?

That would not be a problem. Mobs with a lot of HP are not challenging, they just are long to kill.

Also, by lower the hit points to mobs wouldnt that put us back to mod 6 when caster DPs ruled the day?

Possibly, but that is why casters need to be nerfed.

[baddax]

All im saying is that DDO has a system in place for leveling the playing field when it comes to stat damagers and such, my thinking is this system is Broken since it is not (very rarely) used at all in quests so whats the point of having it if its primarily for PvP? Ok now i have a question for you is the system we have in place for fortification currently acceptable, somewhat acceptable, or useles in your opinion (borror0)?

[baddax]

So then you are suggesting a Nerf to casters as well as a nurf to Mob hit points? Now thats a HUGE Can of WORMS!

[baddax]

Fortification in DDO does not prevent stat damage.

Edit; Ninja!

Thank you for your, post you are Inspiring as always!

[Jay203]

So then you are suggesting a Nerf to casters as well as a nurf to Mob hit points? Now thats a HUGE Can of WORMS!

yup

[Denssor]

Get rid of all stat damagers, and lower all mob HP to a resonable DPS amount (50%?). Problem solved.

[Borror0]

All im saying is that DDO has a system in place for leveling the playing field when it comes to stat damagers and such

It does? Like what? Anything other than immunity/no immunity?

Mobs in SoS have some resistance to stat-damage (what an odd thing to do), is that what you are talking about?!

Ok now i have a question for you is the system we have in place for fortification currently acceptable, somewhat acceptable, or useles in your opinion (borror0)?

It's silly. It's giving an Advil to someone with brain cancer. Doesn't solve the problem, just ignores it.

If your question is directed to Heavy Fortification, I think it's overpowered.

So then you are suggesting a Nerf to casters as well as a nurf to Mob hit points? Now thats a HUGE Can of WORMS!

It's a can of worm worth opening, especially since casters will be better after.

[Borror0]

Get rid of all stat damagers, and lower all mob HP to a resonable DPS amount (50%?). Problem solved.

Why get rid of stat-damager? There is nothing wrong with them.

Of course, they are overpowered now because mobs cause a load of HP but otherwise they are fine. Let them be available, it creates more options. Making Crippling Strike and w/e weapons an attractive choice is far from a bad thing. Removing stat-damager would only create unnecessary anger anyway.

Don't touch the items, unless you got a very good reasons to do it.

[baddax]

So what is a reasonable amount of Hp for a cr18 Ortthon in todays game? Also how much of a nurf would you suggest to caster DPS? Lastly I dont believe turbine will eliminate stat damagers but that is JMO.

[Borror0]

So what is a reasonable amount of Hp for a cr18 Ortthon in todays game? Also how much of a nurf would you suggest to caster DPS?

I don't know. I don't own the tools to playtest it.

[baddax]

I have read many of your post and have a huge amount of respect for you and your opinions. So my question to you is do you feal the Fortification system in place is a good one or not. If not then why not? Not any one type ie Heavy fort just the system and how it is implemented.

[branmakmuffin]

Why get rid of stat-damager? There is nothing wrong with them.

Of course, they are overpowered now because mobs cause a load of HP but otherwise they are fine. Let them be available, it creates more options.

And more options are always better, right?

Making Crippling Strike and w/e weapons an attractive choice is far from a bad thing. Removing stat-damager would only create unnecessary anger anyway.

Don't touch the items, unless you got a very good reasons to do it.

How about "Their proliferation takes the game even farther from its D&D roots." Several have suggested that the Rapier of Puncturing should be a unique item, like it is in PnP, rather than puncturing being just another attribute any piercing weapon can have. Of course, the genie is out of the bottle, Pandora has opened the box and the horses have already left the barn (as you note with your anger reference).

[Denssor]

Why get rid of stat-damager? There is nothing wrong with them.

Of course, they are overpowered now because mobs cause a load of HP but otherwise they are fine. Let them be available, it creates more options. Making Crippling Strike and w/e weapons an attractive choice is far from a bad thing. Removing stat-damager would only create unnecessary anger anyway.

Don't touch the items, unless you got a very good reasons to do it.

Just saying it's a solution.

They could also make it so there stats can't fall below 1. WoP's would still low there CON, which will lower there overall HP, still making it easier to kill, but still needing some sort of DPS to finish the mob off.