Punctuing weapons, and W/P weapons in regards to Barbs

[gab]

Come on guys, you are killing me here with this idiotcy. You are always up on your soap boxes declaring how the devs should change this or that, because its tearing the game apart. Punctuing weapons are powerful, but they are not the demize of this game. Give me a break. Sorry if i sound upset, but i am. I for one love being powerful and if it wasn't w/p weapons it would be the next thing. And i bet there are a lot of players just like me who build to be the most that they can be. When we find the next thing someone would whine about that too. And the next thing, then the next thing, and next. Where would it stop. I think the greatest thing about this game is i can walk into a dungeon and feel awesome. And i build my toons to be just that. If you don't like others killing more than you just make a barb, and stop whinning. Plz leave something in this game for us egotistical maniacs so we can still enjoy playing. And stop your balancing and trying to make every class the same. You would ruin the game for me and others like me. Then we would leave the game and you could have it all to yourselves. (You game balancing barb haters that want everyone to just make pallys instead). Cause you take the fun out of it for me and others like me. And at the end of the day, its just about that $15.00. If you want my $15.00 you will leave things alone.

[Noctus]

Please write in a formated way, if you want people to read your post.

[Lithic]

Come on guys, you are killing me here with this idiotcy. You are always up on your soap boxes declaring how the devs should change this or that, because its tearing the game apart. Punctuing weapons are powerful, but they are not the demize of this game. Give me a break. Sorry if i sound upset, but i am. I for one love being powerful and if it wasn't w/p weapons it would be the next thing. And i bet there are a lot of players just like me who build to be the most that they can be. When we find the next thing someone would whine about that too. And the next thing, then the next thing, and next. Where would it stop. I think the greatest thing about this game is i can walk into a dungeon and feel awesome. And i build my toons to be just that. If you don't like others killing more than you just make a barb, and stop whinning. Plz leave something in this game for us egotistical maniacs so we can still enjoy playing. And stop your balancing and trying to make every class the same. You would ruin the game for me and others like me. Then we would leave the game and you could have it all to yourselves. (You game balancing barb haters that want everyone to just make pallys instead). Cause you take the fun out of it for me and others like me. And at the end of the day, its just about that $15.00. If you want my $15.00 you will leave things alone.

The red line of yours (My highlighting) can easily be turned around on you as "you unbalancing barb lover that wants everyone to just play 2 weapon W/P crit rage barbs!"

Now I know you probably cant grasp this concept, but if all classes are of a similar power level (through widely different methods of course), then everyone gets MANY options, leading to tons of variety, leading to fun for EVERYONE, leading to better population health, which leads to people like you NOT being in groups with 4 other w/p 2 weapon crit rage barbarians looking for a healbot to keep you sponges from leaking too much.

[GeneralDiomedes]

Now I know you probably cant grasp this concept, but if all classes are of a similar power level (through widely different methods of course), then everyone gets MANY options, leading to tons of variety, leading to fun for EVERYONE, leading to better population health

Well that's the crux, ain't it? The root cause of all the bellyaching is that people aren't having FUN. Balance might be a dirty word to some, but like you said, it actually means more variety, not less, and more importantly .. everyone can feel like they made a contribution.

[Emili]

Come on guys, you are killing me here with this idiotcy. You are always up on your soap boxes declaring how the devs should change this or that, because its tearing the game apart. Punctuing weapons are powerful, but they are not the demize of this game. Give me a break. Sorry if i sound upset, but i am. I for one love being powerful and if it wasn't w/p weapons it would be the next thing. And i bet there are a lot of players just like me who build to be the most that they can be. When we find the next thing someone would whine about that too. And the next thing, then the next thing, and next. Where would it stop. I think the greatest thing about this game is i can walk into a dungeon and feel awesome. And i build my toons to be just that. If you don't like others killing more than you just make a barb, and stop whinning. Plz leave something in this game for us egotistical maniacs so we can still enjoy playing. And stop your balancing and trying to make every class the same. You would ruin the game for me and others like me. Then we would leave the game and you could have it all to yourselves. (You game balancing barb haters that want everyone to just make pallys instead). Cause you take the fun out of it for me and others like me. And at the end of the day, its just about that $15.00. If you want my $15.00 you will leave things alone.

WOP Barb is so yesterday am going to delete mine as WoP Tempest/monk splash is today and we all know what's in style next month is the twf WOP Pally. :P

[RobbinB]

Wounding/puncturing (in general, not just WoP) is completely overpowered in the new content. Adjustments to the way W/P works are one way to address the imbalance; however, a re-evaluation of mob HP totals and relative con/non-con HP might be equally workable. It's not about making W/P weapons useless or not valuable, it's about allowing there to be multiple approaches to effectively killing mobs, which there aren't in the new content.

(And it's definitely not about jealousy or kill counts. I have a monk that dual wields wounding kamas and a ranger that dual wields WoP shortswords, which do you think I mostly play?)

[Docta_PoPo]

i tried to read it but i epic failed...

please consider revision

[toughguyjoe]

we all know what's in style next month is the twf WOP Pally. :P

/QFT!!!!!!!!


(See--->Miiko Miyazaki)

[Gunga]

If you don't like others killing more than you just make a barb, and stop whinning.

Actually, as I've just graduated DPS school, it is very fresh on my mind that if you don't like others killing more than you, you'd just make a Ranger. If you want to look cool while killing lots of stuff, but not the most stuff, you'd make a Barb.

[Pyromaniac]

if you don't like others killing more than you, you'd just make a Ranger.

Don't worry I have complete faith the ranger nerf of 2009 is coming just around the corner. We'll be looking to the melee casters for melee DPS shortly.

[sirgog]

Wounding/puncturing (in general, not just WoP) is completely overpowered in the new content. Adjustments to the way W/P works are one way to address the imbalance; however, a re-evaluation of mob HP totals and relative con/non-con HP might be equally workable. It's not about making W/P weapons useless or not valuable, it's about allowing there to be multiple approaches to effectively killing mobs, which there aren't in the new content.

(And it's definitely not about jealousy or kill counts. I have a monk that dual wields wounding kamas and a ranger that dual wields WoP shortswords, which do you think I mostly play?)

IMO it's not that Con damage weapons are overpowered in the newer content but that everything else is horribly underpowered. Vorpals? Useless. Spell damage? Useless against all the foes you actually care about killing fast. Greensteel weapons? Take forever to kill just one Frost Giant, much less a pack of 6 of them.

Dropping mob HP so that, on normal, a maximised empowered Scorching Ray has a noticable impact on a Frost Giant would be a good start. (IMO a crit max-emp Scorch Ray from a fire-specced sorc should one-shot them - dropping their HP from 3400 to 1050 would make this the case).

Otherwise, the role of every non-melee class will be to either play pure support for the Con damagers, or to delve into Con damage themself (the Cleric that swings a Wounder, the Wizard spamming CK like it's going out of fashion, and the Sorc dropping Webs left right and centre so the Con-damagers can have their fun in peace).

[jmelanie7]

The red line of yours (My highlighting) can easily be turned around on you as "you unbalancing barb lover that wants everyone to just play 2 weapon W/P crit rage barbs!"

Now I know you probably cant grasp this concept, but if all classes are of a similar power level (through widely different methods of course), then everyone gets MANY options, leading to tons of variety, leading to fun for EVERYONE, leading to better population health, which leads to people like you NOT being in groups with 4 other w/p 2 weapon crit rage barbarians looking for a healbot to keep you sponges from leaking too much.

What you are saying is far from the truth, because not everyone is seeking the same goal in the game. You know me for being a powergamer, but not everyone is. Why I think w/p weapons should stay the same is this simple reason. What differentiates the person who plays 30-40 hours a week and the person who plays 5-10 hours a week? If we say yes to every POPULAR suggestions, then we will end up with NO DIFFERENCE! everyone will be having ALOT of raid loot (one popular demand is making raid loot easier to get) and every toon with high AC will be the pallies and fighters, maybe including the monks in the lot(some builds).

Then wizards will have the same casting speed as the sorcerers, because its like this in PnP, thus far reducing the use of a sorc.

I can understand that 4 melees all dex based rangers with a 60+ ac in a party shouldnt exists, but thats not Turbines fault star, thats the party leader's fault. IMO casters critting with a 1500+ dmg with a cone of cold is WAY more overpowered than w/p...reason!? IT CAN BE DONE ON RED NAMES!

[Lithic]

What you are saying is far from the truth, because not everyone is seeking the same goal in the game. You know me for being a powergamer, but not everyone is. Why I think w/p weapons should stay the same is this simple reason. What differentiates the person who plays 30-40 hours a week and the person who plays 5-10 hours a week? If we say yes to every POPULAR suggestions, then we will end up with NO DIFFERENCE! everyone will be having ALOT of raid loot (one popular demand is making raid loot easier to get) and every toon with high AC will be the pallies and fighters, maybe including the monks in the lot(some builds).

Then wizards will have the same casting speed as the sorcerers, because its like this in PnP, thus far reducing the use of a sorc.

I can understand that 4 melees all dex based rangers with a 60+ ac in a party shouldnt exists, but thats not Turbines fault star, thats the party leader's fault. IMO casters critting with a 1500+ dmg with a cone of cold is WAY more overpowered than w/p...reason!? IT CAN BE DONE ON RED NAMES!

I had a long post, but frankly am getting bored of defending balance vs. the "I want to stay Uberer than anyone else" crowd. I've got all the win buttons (multiples of most of them), and they make this game boring. Not necessarily with how good they are, but by how bad the monsters have to be to keep up. The difference between min/max builds and everything else is getting to the point where if you arent in a pigeonhole, you may as well ride in the healbot's backpack. With all due respect to the devs, this game is swirling around the rim these days, and the next mod is looking to be more of the same.

[Riggs]

Monster hp is insane, unbalanced and stupidly insane.

If level 16 brings 5000 hit point elementals and giants, level 20 means 20,000 hit point normal non-red named monsters...on normal (since monsters are not getting geometrically more powerfual as levels go up, but exponentially).

Wops are only overpowered because dps is a waste of time. You shouldnt have to hit a single monster for 60 seconds straight in a normal quest - when there is 200 other monsters lined up ready to go once the first one dies. Its just absurd.

My wiz hit a fire elemental in sos for something over 500 damage on one hit, and its health bar didnt even budge 5%...or maybe it was around 5%. I worked it out, I could blow all the mana I had after buffing to kill 2 monsters, and then have no mana.

Wow thats a fun game to play for anyone not using wops.

[Blazer]

IMO casters critting with a 1500+ dmg with a cone of cold is WAY more overpowered than w/p...reason!? IT CAN BE DONE ON RED NAMES!

W/P is not overpowered. Take a step back and think about WHY people are using W/P weapons more now than ever before. Also, your caster argument is tired and weak.

[deathtouch]

This is a video game where the object is to finish the quest and win and to work together.

The only people who want the nerf on wops are 1) people who dont have them 2) people who have built DPS and are being outkilled by dex builds.

As the game changes you must adapt and keep up to date, reroll your characters and make better builds.

If they do nerf wop/ranger builds I see a lot of upset people.

[Korvek]

The only people who want the nerf on wops are 1) people who dont have them 2) people who have built DPS and are being outkilled by dex builds.

My rogue is a dex build that was mainly built for utility purposes (Of course, that's changed over time) and dual-wields WoP daggers. I want a nerf/adjustment to WoP, so your theory doesn't exactly work.

Edit: I suppose I technically would rather see mobs adjusted such that WoP becomes less effective relatively as DPS gets a boost (Roughly equal perhaps), which I personally consider a nerf to WoP by making other options more effective than they are now.

[Beherit_Baphomar]

IMO casters critting with a 1500+ dmg with a cone of cold is WAY more overpowered than w/p...reason!? IT CAN BE DONE ON RED NAMES!

LOL...like critting for 1500 damage actually means something.

W/P is killing DPS from any source, period.

The Dev's are killing DPS because of their inability to balance the game.

We'll see immunity to stat damage come MOD9. For sure.

[Korvek]

We'll see immunity to stat damage come MOD9. For sure.

If that were to come, I'd be curious to see what happens to Crippling Strike.

[Beherit_Baphomar]

The only people who want the nerf on wops are 1) people who dont have them 2) people who have built DPS and are being outkilled by dex builds.

If this is what you believe then all I can say is you've no idea what this game is about.

I actually dual wield them on my Tempest ranger.
Ive also got a Sorc and a Barbarian.

The Dev's need to balance the game better, HP's are rediculous. Beating on a raid boss, hell ANY mob, for five minutes because he has millions of HP's is no fun.