Add Zeal to Cleric Spell List

[Desteria]

I've said 5 times already if you actually read the thread they CAN cast it but not well. If you start with 10 wisdom and maybe hit 20 you have terrible DC so everything makes their saves. If you go with TWF (the only way to have even competitive melee DPS) then you cannot take maximize so you are left with very weak blade barriers.

sorry i just commented on the stupidy as soon as a saw it....

[EinarMal]

After they have spend a round or 2 buffing they are.....

some times.....

Untill the paladin Spirited charges smiting evil with his Lance with max PA, obleterating what ever was at the end of it....

Good thing we don't have lances or mounts

[EinarMal]

sorry i just commented on the stupidy as soon as a saw it....

Yeah which is why I thought what I said was easiliy understood

It literally is impossible as you pointed out to not be able to cast 6th level spells. My current TWF battle cleric started with 10 wisdom which only requires +3 enhancements and a +6 item not even a tome.

[Desteria]

Good thing we don't have lances or mounts

mmm it;s spirited charge that really send sit to redicules slevels it;s just a very powerfull attack before that.

[Desteria]

Yeah which is why I thought what I said was easiliy understood

It literally is impossible as you pointed out to not be able to cast 6th level spells. My current TWF battle cleric started with 10 wisdom which only requires +3 enhancements and a +6 item not even a tome.

note though a 10 staring wis coudl still have a cleric that does NOT bump wis at +3+3+6= 22 wis sure stuff will save more BUT still takes half damage imo not imposible not optimal but standign fightign inside a BB woudl add soem damage...

Not to be used against stuff with evasion of course....

[Desteria]

btw all things said add mroe cleric spells to cleric not palyl or rnager spells imo...

Clerics in PnP only have most of the most broken melle buffs any way why would you want second rate ones Well sicne they changed animal groth on shapchanged druids that is

[EinarMal]

note though a 10 staring wis coudl still have a cleric that does NOT bump wis at +3+3+6= 22 wis sure stuff will save more BUT still takes half damage imo not imposible not optimal but standign fightign inside a BB woudl add soem damage...

Not to be used against stuff with evasion of course....

Yeah the problem with blade barrier and melee is they don't combine all that well (unlike Firewall). My experience is you have to move the mobs in and out of the thing they don't take continual damage.

For melee arcanes that works really well with firewall or acid fog adding to your melee DPS a bit.

[Desteria]

Yeah the problem with blade barrier and melee is they don't combine all that well (unlike Firewall). My experience is you have to move the mobs in and out of the thing they don't take continual damage.

For melee arcanes that works really well with firewall or acid fog adding to your melee DPS a bit.

meh most mobs jump around like ADHD 10 year olds just stand on the edge after castign it they shoudl bonce in and out a few tiems at least + all new mobs commign in get hit

[EinarMal]

meh most mobs jump around like ADHD 10 year olds just stand on the edge after castign it they shoudl bonce in and out a few tiems at least + all new mobs commign in get hit

It's true they do like to hop.

[Seneca_Windforge]

As far as summoning a shrine once per quest, people already recall for sp and chug pots so it's already happening in all but name. What you call a BAD idea I call a welcome addition. If it's really such a big deal the components could be loot only, instead of purchasable. Problem solved.

The paladin's charging smite variant is to replace the mount which is usually not practical in dungeons, which is exactly what ddo should have done in the first place.

Personally I'm tired of seeing caster's spam the same 4 or 5 spells, adding these iconic and unusual spells to game would bring some life to it rather then everyone casting wall of fire, haste, and finger of death all the time.

But being able to summon a shrine is a lot more convenient than having to recall out, which is impossible or at least a significant annoyance in many quests. And not only that, but aside from the once or twice per quest a wizard would cast these spells, people would still be casting the same fairly limited number of spells they are now. It's not really going to significantly change the way the game is played with regards to casters (besides giving them more mana to spam even more spells, that is).

There's really little point in arguing the shrine thing in any case, because it's not going to happen outside of rare instances (ie, anniversary cakes).

I don't have much of an opinion on Charging Smite, because I don't know exactly what it does. But if it doesn't require a mount, then that's a lot more workable than Summon Mount. If it's a simple attack of some sort similar to existing smite abilities (yet is different enough from them to warrant inclusion) then I don't see why it would be off the table.

[vlnabkux123]

Zeal is not a cleric spell, it's a paladin spell. Battle clerics already have a bone, a lot more mana then pallies, a lot more healing power, the ability to cast offensive spells like blade barrier and comet fall - you already have several bones, no need to add more.

/signed

[Zuldar]

But being able to summon a shrine is a lot more convenient than having to recall out, which is impossible or at least a significant annoyance in many quests. And not only that, but aside from the once or twice per quest a wizard would cast these spells, people would still be casting the same fairly limited number of spells they are now. It's not really going to significantly change the way the game is played with regards to casters (besides giving them more mana to spam even more spells, that is).

There's really little point in arguing the shrine thing in any case, because it's not going to happen outside of rare instances (ie, anniversary cakes).

I don't have much of an opinion on Charging Smite, because I don't know exactly what it does. But if it doesn't require a mount, then that's a lot more workable than Summon Mount. If it's a simple attack of some sort similar to existing smite abilities (yet is different enough from them to warrant inclusion) then I don't see why it would be off the table.

And fireball is a convenient way to kill many mobs, haste is a convenient way to travel quickly. Spells are supposed to be convenient.

Adding these spells won't significantly change the game by themselves sure, but it'll be a precedent for the addition of spells that don't just do x amount of damage or make you attack y percent better. It would be a great opportunity to branch out to the unusual spells. There is a plethora of unique and unorthodox spells that would be a great addition to this game. The only thing barring their inclusion is a lack of imagination.

[Lifespawn]

And fireball is a convenient way to kill many mobs, haste is a convenient way to travel quickly. Spells are supposed to be convenient.

Adding these spells won't significantly change the game by themselves sure, but it'll be a precedent for the addition of spells that don't just do x amount of damage or make you attack y percent better. It would be a great opportunity to branch out to the unusual spells. There is a plethora of unique and unorthodox spells that would be a great addition to this game. The only thing barring their inclusion is a lack of imagination.

allowing the use of a shrine calling spell would invalidate every non casting class wo needs a tank forget conserving spell points bring 6 casters and u have 6 shrines between shrines.

[EinarMal]

/signed

/signed that using /signed is really dumb....

[EinarMal]

allowing the use of a shrine calling spell would invalidate every non casting class wo needs a tank forget conserving spell points bring 6 casters and u have 6 shrines between shrines.

Alright enough with the free shrine stuff already....I want my 10% sacred attack speed bonus.

Thanks

[EinarMal]

Here is an outline of the reasoning for this much needed change.

1. I believe that Clerics are intended to be a good melee class
a) They have 3/4 BAB
b) They get heavy armor
c) They use 1d8 hit points per level
d) They have combat oriented spell buffs (self only)

So it seems to me there is great evidence to support that Clerics (if they choose to go this route with high strength and melee feats should be good melee characters.

2. How far behind should they be. Clearly the part benefits of healing and buffs add to the power of the class. I believe they should be about 90% of the DPS of Paladins if they both make similar builds.
a) This is no longer true, Zeal alone is a 10% increase. When on top of that you add smites, the new Paladin prestige enhancements and other changes they are more than 10% behind. Against evil outsiders next Mod it will balloon to more like 30% behind for DPS builds that go with the proper prestige enhancements.

Melee clerics need something added to their spell list to increase DPS. They are falling too far behind other melee classes due to recent changes. You could argue that fine the Cleric enhancements may help (and they might) but that is at least 6 months away.

They need to implement Righteous Might for clerics that stack with the divine might enhancement or some other spell to buff cleric melee ability.

It has been far too long without any additions for melee battle clerics (and no divine might was not for clerics but for gimped Paladins with high charisma and pathetic DPS).

[Lifespawn]

/sarcasm on

bards also need a 10% bonus since they are 3/4

and while we're at it rogues and not that crappy using a qstaff stuff

hey and monks for some stupid reason i just want them to attack faster and stack with everything.

I would also like all classes that have a hp bar to have a sp bar and then heal spells to heal those hp's because lets face it even tho i don't have the hp's of a barb i still need to be healed.

And even tho on my rogue i can get massive sneak attacks that no other class gets i think he's underpowered and i want greater command as a spell and base it on my highest stat because why should i have to build my build a certain way and waste points in something i don't want.

I would also like umd to be a class skill for everyone because i'm jealous that only rogues and bards get it,while we're at it make all skills class skills for everyone so there is no need for any class to do anything better than another class.

/sarcasm off

[Uska]

Here is an outline of the reasoning for this much needed change.

1. I believe that Clerics are intended to be a good melee class
a) They have 3/4 BAB
b) They get heavy armor
c) They use 1d8 hit points per level
d) They have combat oriented spell buffs (self only)

So it seems to me there is great evidence to support that Clerics (if they choose to go this route with high strength and melee feats should be good melee characters.

2. How far behind should they be. Clearly the part benefits of healing and buffs add to the power of the class. I believe they should be about 90% of the DPS of Paladins if they both make similar builds.
a) This is no longer true, Zeal alone is a 10% increase. When on top of that you add smites, the new Paladin prestige enhancements and other changes they are more than 10% behind. Against evil outsiders next Mod it will balloon to more like 30% behind for DPS builds that go with the proper prestige enhancements.

Melee clerics need something added to their spell list to increase DPS. They are falling too far behind other melee classes due to recent changes. You could argue that fine the Cleric enhancements may help (and they might) but that is at least 6 months away.

They need to implement Righteous Might for clerics that stack with the divine might enhancement or some other spell to buff cleric melee ability.

It has been far too long without any additions for melee battle clerics (and no divine might was not for clerics but for gimped Paladins with high charisma and pathetic DPS).

shouldnt count smites they are burst damage only and you wont be using them on trash mobs now are you? Yes clerics should be good melee but not great.

[EinarMal]

/sarcasm on

bards also need a 10% bonus since they are 3/4

and while we're at it rogues and not that crappy using a qstaff stuff

hey and monks for some stupid reason i just want them to attack faster and stack with everything.

I would also like all classes that have a hp bar to have a sp bar and then heal spells to heal those hp's because lets face it even tho i don't have the hp's of a barb i still need to be healed.

And even tho on my rogue i can get massive sneak attacks that no other class gets i think he's underpowered and i want greater command as a spell and base it on my highest stat because why should i have to build my build a certain way and waste points in something i don't want.

I would also like umd to be a class skill for everyone because i'm jealous that only rogues and bards get it,while we're at it make all skills class skills for everyone so there is no need for any class to do anything better than another class.

/sarcasm off

When anyone tries to suggest changes you always get these ridiculous posts. So it is impossible to even consider that cleric melee DPS is going to fall too far behind full BAB classes because of all the buffing they are doing to Fighters & Paladins to make the compete with the crazy inflated Rangers and Barbs?

Please....

[Turial]

When anyone tries to suggest changes you always get these ridiculous posts. So it is impossible to even consider that cleric melee DPS is going to fall too far behind full BAB classes because of all the buffing they are doing to Fighters & Paladins to make the compete with the crazy inflated Rangers and Barbs?

Please....

Ever consider that non-cleric healing has fallen way behind that of clerics? I mean all healing-capable classes should then get boosts similar to what clerics healing gets...

Accept the fact that clerics are not supposed to have the same melee DPS capabilities (they can get very close and surpass many if they are correctly built) as fighters or paladins because they (clercis) have access to better class abilities.