Add Zeal to Cleric Spell List

[Irongutz2000]

My comment was to the Wis is to low to cast blade barrier.............why in the he** would u not just roll a fighter?

[EinarMal]

My comment was to the Wis is to low to cast blade barrier.............why in the he** would u not just roll a fighter?

Because melee battle clerics are cool and fighters drool.
(EDIT)
btw technically of course you CAN caste it, but with no feats to spend on buffing it and low wisdom for save DC it won't be any good.

Not everyone finds exploiting poor AI and training mobs through a blade barrier enjoyable. It is only a matter of time and better programming when you won't be so keen on that strategy.

[Lifespawn]

Wow that is some great arguing clearly toughness for non-Dwarves was clearly aimed at melee battle clerics. It's like your a pro debater you almost had me convinced.

I think I will not change my mind though thanks for the free bump though.

there u go avoid the whole other point your like a politician skirting the subject lets elect you to office!!!

I never said it was Aimed at battleclerics just that it helped non dwarven melee battleclerics.

I stand by my statment that divine might was a very good addon for battleclerics turbine can impliment a spell however they wish not every class has to have a zeal like ability.

When my pally gets bladebarrier you can name it thorn aura if u want then u can have zeal.

[Lifespawn]

Divine might was horribly implemented, unless you're saying that 6 stat points are worth 2 damage. Why not just put them into str in the first place?

ad already beat me to it but if your str is as high as u can put it how can you add more?Divine might thats how easy enough to get a 14 cha and +2 tome not to mention that +4 tomes will be dropping so you could get +6 damage per hit i'd say 6 damage a hit is nothing to cry about.

[Zuldar]

ad already beat me to it but if your str is as high as u can put it how can you add more?Divine might thats how easy enough to get a 14 cha and +2 tome not to mention that +4 tomes will be dropping so you could get +6 damage per hit i'd say 6 damage a hit is nothing to cry about.

Yeah, but not everyone can count on having +2 and +4 tomes. And between trying to increase str, con, and wis you won't have very many if any points to spare for cha. You'd still be better off ignoring it.

[sirgog]

Neither zeal nor ram's might are on the cleric's spell lists, wouldn't make sense to just give it to them. However, clerics should be getting a spell called righteous might, implementing that would be tremendously helpful.

I concur Righteous Might would rock. It's basically a clerical version of Ram's Might, with the defensive bonuses. (Note - due to errata, the spell grants +4 stacking Str, +2 stacking Con, +2 natural AC and DR of up to 9/evil - gone are the days of this granting +8 Str and much more).

One problem tho - it'd probably make non-Cleric melees close to obsolete. Clerics built for melee are already only a sliver behind Paladins and Fighters in the melee department, and even after all the buffs needed to get them there they still have around 1k SP to spend on party buffing, healing, bladebarriers or CC. Add Righteous Might, and they'll be out-DPSing equivalently-geared Fighters and Paladins in melee whilst being versatile enough to be able to play a Healbot role when needed.

[Lifespawn]

Yeah, but not everyone can count on having +2 and +4 tomes. And between trying to increase str, con, and wis you won't have very many if any points to spare for cha. You'd still be better off ignoring it.

can't count on +2 tomes cmon they are already dropping alot and anyone making a min/max battlecleric will have access to atleast a couple.

as for stats even putting all max into str u still get good scores.

made this pally first level for prof but cmon thats good stats for a battlecleric and if they take a second level of pally for the cha bonus to saves even better

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.96
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 1 Lawful Good Human Male
(1 Paladin) 
Hit Points: 32
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 1\1
Fortitude: 5
Reflex: 1
Will: 1

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 1)
[COLOR=silver]Strength             18                    18
Dexterity            10                    10
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               10                    10
Charisma             14                    14

[Seneca_Windforge]

And why not add those spells? With a little creativity it'd be a snap. Rope trick could take you to a small space where you and your party could wand whip and drink pots to heal up safely without worrying about mobs. Mordenkainen's mansion could bring up a temporary shrine like the anniversary cakes did. Pop a lengthy cooldown and an expensive material component and there you go. The paladin's mount can be replaced with the charging smite variant from the player's handbook II.

Instead of seeing problems find solutions.

Whoa, there. Are you actually suggesting that we should be able to pop temporary shrines with a 6th level spell? You want to give people essentially unlimited abilities and mana? Even if you limited it to once per quest that's still adding in an additional 1500+ mana per character with one spell. Can you not understand why that spell would be a BAD idea? Even the Rope Trick idea could be game breaking; what's to stop people from popping in and out of the temporary space during a raid to keep safe? In the context of DDO, that's just a bad idea.

Expensive material components won't help. To keep the power players from being able to pop one whenever they wanted, it would have to be priced so incredibly far out of the normal player's price range to be unworkable.

As for the Charging Smite thing, I don't actually know what that is, because I never bought the PHB2 (I am assuming that it does not require a mount of any kind). However, I would like to point out one thing here -- you are suggesting implementing Charging Smite. It is no longer Summon Mount at that point.

[Uska]

can't count on +2 tomes cmon they are already dropping alot and anyone making a min/max battlecleric will have access to atleast a couple.

as for stats even putting all max into str u still get good scores.

made this pally first level for prof but cmon thats good stats for a battlecleric and if they take a second level of pally for the cha bonus to saves even better

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.96
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 1 Lawful Good Human Male
(1 Paladin) 
Hit Points: 32
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 1\1
Fortitude: 5
Reflex: 1
Will: 1

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 1)
[COLOR=silver]Strength             18                    18
Dexterity            10                    10
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               10                    10
Charisma             14                    14

Not true on the tomes I have very poor luck on pulling tomes out of all my characters I have pulled exactly 1 unbound +2 tome and never pulled a large scale or stone from the shroud(stupid chains)

[Zuldar]

Whoa, there. Are you actually suggesting that we should be able to pop temporary shrines with a 6th level spell? You want to give people essentially unlimited abilities and mana? Even if you limited it to once per quest that's still adding in an additional 1500+ mana per character with one spell. Can you not understand why that spell would be a BAD idea? Even the Rope Trick idea could be game breaking; what's to stop people from popping in and out of the temporary space during a raid to keep safe? In the context of DDO, that's just a bad idea.

Expensive material components won't help. To keep the power players from being able to pop one whenever they wanted, it would have to be priced so incredibly far out of the normal player's price range to be unworkable.

As for the Charging Smite thing, I don't actually know what that is, because I never bought the PHB2 (I am assuming that it does not require a mount of any kind). However, I would like to point out one thing here -- you are suggesting implementing Charging Smite. It is no longer Summon Mount at that point.

As far as summoning a shrine once per quest, people already recall for sp and chug pots so it's already happening in all but name. What you call a BAD idea I call a welcome addition. If it's really such a big deal the components could be loot only, instead of purchasable. Problem solved.

The paladin's charging smite variant is to replace the mount which is usually not practical in dungeons, which is exactly what ddo should have done in the first place.

Personally I'm tired of seeing caster's spam the same 4 or 5 spells, adding these iconic and unusual spells to game would bring some life to it rather then everyone casting wall of fire, haste, and finger of death all the time.

[Uska]

As far as summoning a shrine once per quest, people already recall for sp and chug pots so it's already happening in all but name. What you call a BAD idea I call a welcome addition. If it's really such a big deal the components could be loot only, instead of purchasable. Problem solved.

The paladin's charging smite variant is to replace the mount which is usually not practical in dungeons, which is exactly what ddo should have done in the first place.

Personally I'm tired of seeing caster's spam the same 4 or 5 spells, adding these iconic and unusual spells to game would bring some life to it rather then everyone casting wall of fire, haste, and finger of death all the time.

I dont recall for sp on principle if group doesnt like it to bad.

[Zuldar]

I dont recall for sp on principle if group doesnt like it to bad.

Ah, but I'd wager you've drank the occasional mana pot.

[CSFurious]

this explains perfectly why clerics can never have any such spell

class balance is the name of the game & clerics are currently already pretty **** powerful

I concur Righteous Might would rock. It's basically a clerical version of Ram's Might, with the defensive bonuses. (Note - due to errata, the spell grants +4 stacking Str, +2 stacking Con, +2 natural AC and DR of up to 9/evil - gone are the days of this granting +8 Str and much more).

One problem tho - it'd probably make non-Cleric melees close to obsolete. Clerics built for melee are already only a sliver behind Paladins and Fighters in the melee department, and even after all the buffs needed to get them there they still have around 1k SP to spend on party buffing, healing, bladebarriers or CC. Add Righteous Might, and they'll be out-DPSing equivalently-geared Fighters and Paladins in melee whilst being versatile enough to be able to play a Healbot role when needed.

[Desteria]

Actually it is neither in PnP there is no such spell. It is simply the choice of the Devs on who can cast it and who cannot.

Please do not confuse heavy melee focused battle clerics (who cannot cast blade barrier and commet fall because there wisdom is too low and they used all their feats on TWF (the only effective DPS combat style)

Thank you and have a great day!

BARE minimun starting Wisdome is 6 for a WF cleric we all agree here OK
+2 Tome dirt commen now [note a +1 tome &+3 ap &+6 item = 16 at lvl13 as well.]
+2 Celeric AP's & +6 wis item (needs level 13)
OR +3 cleric AP's and +5 item (only needs level 11 or heal/BB/CF level)
=16 wis enough for all thouse spells to be case......

Thats was starting with 6 wisdome FFS, HOW can a cleric not POSSIBLE have 16 wis it's it's it's Inconcevable.....

[Lifespawn]

Not true on the tomes I have very poor luck on pulling tomes out of all my characters I have pulled exactly 1 unbound +2 tome and never pulled a large scale or stone from the shroud(stupid chains)

everyone get the chance at the favor tome and end rewards of shroud 20th are guarenteed to have +2 tomes and maybe +3's.

Do you ever farm the reaver encounter areas? they all can drop tomes other than that vale quests on hard and elite and en rewards is really the only lace to get them but as more high lvl content comes out they will drop in more quests.

[Desteria]

Hell greater teleport, teleport and dimension door could come in handy too.

There is a reason Travel domain Is a popular one in PnP, Works GREAT with Spontanius domain as welll.......

an amsing PnP adventure story at higher level 13-14ish

Party traves a long way enters a Pocket dimention to stop soem big nasty litch guy with dragon boss and stuff big uglly fights....
So we head in.. first fight with minon stuff np hike for a hr or sooo and weeee start climign the ziggerat half way up jumped by lich and soem friends PRismatic Sprayyyy part goes oh boy dice are rolled, the click vanishes, (yay random plane), main party continues fight lich dies FAST still mopping up the HP tanks a few rounds latter, cleric appearss... heers what happend.
Cleric appears on random plane, pulls out scrolsl and plane shifts to prime material, (plane shift is only accurate with in 100's of KM's), spontanus domains atelaport with out error back to the entrance portal... Walks through and tenaports to the steps of the ziggerat 3 actiosn and bakc in the combat from a random plane !!!!!!!
Much hality ensued as we though about the looks the lich would have had was he still alive....

[Desteria]

Without a doubt Druids will be very disliked by many people who think they are cleric jr.s. Way too much MMO pigeon holing goes on with the game and forums.

The truth is that clerics (who focus heavily in melee) are just as good at melee as paladins in PnP, so any buff Paladins get should coincide with spells that buff Cleric's melee prowess.

After they have spend a round or 2 buffing they are.....

some times.....

Untill the paladin Spirited charges smiting evil with his Lance with max PA, obleterating what ever was at the end of it....

[Desteria]

*shrug*

It's not up to me. I don't have the power to Deny you anything in DDO. And you're right -- it is just my opinion. I think it is unnecessary and would devalue Wizards and Sorcerers.

Would you be fine with handing Wizards/Sorcerers spells such as Panacea, Heal, Death Ward, Blade Barrier, and Cure spells? After all, they don't have enhancements to support those spells, so it should be okay...right?

You claiming that giving Clerics domain spells is a good idea is also just an opinion, by the way...an opinion you are certainly entitled to, but one that I definitely disagree with.

mmm ARcane Diciple the heal domain yum yum a Sorc that casts at SORC SPEEDS, they are no slower in PnP the heal spell and others mmmmm sounds great to me....

[EinarMal]

BARE minimun starting Wisdome is 6 for a WF cleric we all agree here OK
+2 Tome dirt commen now [note a +1 tome &+3 ap &+6 item = 16 at lvl13 as well.]
+2 Celeric AP's & +6 wis item (needs level 13)
OR +3 cleric AP's and +5 item (only needs level 11 or heal/BB/CF level)
=16 wis enough for all thouse spells to be case......

Thats was starting with 6 wisdome FFS, HOW can a cleric not POSSIBLE have 16 wis it's it's it's Inconcevable.....

I've said 5 times already if you actually read the thread they CAN cast it but not well. If you start with 10 wisdom and maybe hit 20 you have terrible DC so everything makes their saves. If you go with TWF (the only way to have even competitive melee DPS) then you cannot take maximize so you are left with very weak blade barriers.

[EinarMal]

I concur Righteous Might would rock. It's basically a clerical version of Ram's Might, with the defensive bonuses. (Note - due to errata, the spell grants +4 stacking Str, +2 stacking Con, +2 natural AC and DR of up to 9/evil - gone are the days of this granting +8 Str and much more).

One problem tho - it'd probably make non-Cleric melees close to obsolete. Clerics built for melee are already only a sliver behind Paladins and Fighters in the melee department, and even after all the buffs needed to get them there they still have around 1k SP to spend on party buffing, healing, bladebarriers or CC. Add Righteous Might, and they'll be out-DPSing equivalently-geared Fighters and Paladins in melee whilst being versatile enough to be able to play a Healbot role when needed.

This is not true, they are more than a sliver by far now. Fighters have some good DPS enhancements coming, Paladins have zeal, and much improved smites plus good DPS enhancements (at least against evil outsiders).

Melee clerics in Mod4 were very close to fighters/paladins. It is no longer close at all. They should be only slightly behind which is why they need better buff spells that should be in the game.

It is a myth that you can build a good melee DPS cleric that can also cast any offensive spells (like blade barrier). You cannot go TWF and still have any casting feats to use blade barrier well which is very feat intensive. You also don't have the spell points to buff yourself, heal, and cast it is not possible.

BTW if you post some two handed build you can save yourself the time, the DPS you can put out with a two handed weapon is less than 50% of any decent melee character. Might as well just swing a vorpal or wounder.