Thinking of picking up debuffs of my Sorcerer, need advice

[drachine]

Was thinking of picking up some debuffs since I have some spells that are more or less self serving or situational. I don't carry any buffs except Haste and Displacement as I feel other spells are typically carried by other classes. I am equally spec’d for Force/Fire and Electric damage. I don’t need Jump, I just Tumble out of the way after I cast a spell if I’m about to be hit.

Here is my spell list and why.

1st
Chill Touch: not much has resistance to negative damage, I love negative damage
Hypnotism: this can stop an army of renders, or whatever
Magic Missile: damage that never misses and I’m spec’d
Nightshield: may drop this for Ray of Enfeeblement and use cookies or wands

2nd
Glitterdust: blinds, gives everyone auto sneak attack, reveals invisible
Melf’s Acid Arrow: extended will kill anything while I hide, I’m spec’d
Scorching Ray: never misses, solid damage
Web: best crowd control spell in the game

3rd
Displacement: solid defensive spell, have blur on greensteel bracers
Haste: increase speed and AC
Sleet Storm: strong on steps and ramps, lessens fires, may drop for Ray of Exhaustion
Suggestion: only charm spell with a short duration

4th
Enervation: negative levels are strong
Fire Shield: strong defensive spell and cuts fire/cold damage in half
Phantasmal Killer: things still die to it, so it’s a one shot death effect
Wall of Fire: solid fire damage spell

5th
Ball Lightning: strong, fast, area of effect damage
Cloudkill: solid crowd control spell, love to use on Vision fire bats
Cone of Cold: solid cold spell area of effect
Dismissal: will save instant death spell, may drop for Symbol of Pain

6th
Acid Cloud: good crowd control
Disintegrate: for undead bosses mostly, etc.
Flesh to Stone: for things with Death Ward
(Chain Lightning with level increase, never misses high level spell)

7th
Finger of Death: instant death
Delayed Blast Fireball: good high level damage
(Hold Person, Mass with level increase, awesome crowd control)

8th
Polar Ray: good high level damage
(Horrid Wilting with level increase for negative high level damage)

Basically I like carrying spells to solve problems which is why I have the spells I do.

Was thinking of dropping Nightshield, Sleet Storm, and Dismissal for Ray of Enfeeblement, Ray of Exhaustion and Symbol of Pain. What do you guys think?

Nightshield is kind of useless unless I am in the Demon Queen raid and even then I can use clickies. It’s a nice to have my resistance slot open, but that doesn’t seem like enough reason to carry it.

Sleet Storm though disliked is very strong if your party has Freedom of Movement and actually cools fires in the area of effect and blinds opponents. It just gets a bum rap because it effects the party, but on ramps and stairs, it’s amazing.

Dismissal is sort a restricted Finger of Death to outsiders and it's a Will save vs. a Fortitude. Might as well use Finger of Death really and Phantasmal Killer.

The thing is if you are going to carry debuffs, I might as well carry a few of them. So it’s all or nothing thing. Even though I like the spells, perhaps variety might serve the party and my interests better.

Ray of Enfeeblement combined with Ray of Exhaustion and Chill Touch will enable me to reduce an opponent to zero quickly. The strength damage from Chill Touch does not work on raid bosses, but Symbol of Pain does and those 3 spells should debuff a boss. The higher level Exhaustion/Fatigue spells seem redundant to me, and I can’t see giving up higher level damage spells for debuffs on a sorcerer, but if I can fit these in, I want to.

[Yajerman01]

dont do it. you want a debuffer, roll a wizard - you can change stuff out and tinker with what you want without the cost invested.

I have a Sorc and I know there are some debuffs I want, but not at the cost of going against the grain of what a sorc is supposed to be, straight out quick-draw killer.

[drachine]

so you think losing Nightshield, Sleet Storm and Dismissal for Ray of Enfeeblement, Ray of Exhaustion and Symbol of Pain makes me a less effective killer?

I guess I could wear my Stormreaver's Napkin if I kept Nightshield. Sleet Storm is probably less situational even though it's effective. And Dismissal would be missed for Symbol of Pain, but I hardly use Dismissal honestly.

You may be right and I might not do it, but I'm just thinking about it at this point.

[Lonewolfe]

Dismissal isn't needed at all if you take banishment, which (imho) is much better since it is an area insta kill. I use it alot on my wiz and sorc and wouldn't be w/out it. maybe you would have better luck, but I only use symbol of pain on my wiz and it doesn't work enough for my liking. Of course, I usually only use on raids and bosses, so I suppose it shouldn't land all the time anway.

[drachine]

ya, but dropping Finger of Death or Delayed Blast Fireball for an area of effect spell that only works on Outsiders like Banishment makes little sense for me.

in truth, i will probably drop Dismissal for Hold Monster, since it is also a Will save and works on anything, Outsider or no.

[Strykersz]

ya, but dropping Finger of Death or Delayed Blast Fireball for an area of effect spell that only works on Outsiders like Banishment makes little sense for me.

in truth, i will probably drop Dismissal for Hold Monster, since it is also a Will save and works on anything, Outsider or no.

Where are you using DBF?

[drachine]

on the way to hound, shroud 1&2, pre-quests for DQ raid, and in the orchard and orchard quests, but i see your point.

[Desteria]

Was thinking of picking up some debuffs since I have some spells that are more or less self serving or situational. I don't carry any buffs except Haste and Displacement as I feel other spells are typically carried by other classes. I am equally spec’d for Force/Fire and Electric damage. I don’t need Jump, I just Tumble out of the way after I cast a spell if I’m about to be hit.

Jump IS only partly for dodging it;s also for getting to places, it saves 5-15 seconds on a few of the runs betwene portals in shroud for example. In sorjek it's much harder to jump between fire islands/take some of the shoirt cuts wiht out it, also great in ice area fro clearign a trap set compleatly.

Here is my spell list and why.

1st
Chill Touch: not much has resistance to negative damage, I love negative damage
Hypnotism: this can stop an army of renders, or whatever
Magic Missile: damage that never misses and I’m spec’d
Nightshield: may drop this for Ray of Enfeeblement and use cookies or wands

Hypno Agreed great spell
MM if you have the force spec i agree great spell to have.
Nightshild: i fidn the freed up body slot to make it VERY worthwile spell there isent enough space as it is.

CT is the spell i would drop my slef if you want to fit somethign in here.

2nd
Glitterdust: blinds, gives everyone auto sneak attack, reveals invisible
Melf’s Acid Arrow: extended will kill anything while I hide, I’m spec’d
Scorching Ray: never misses, solid damage
Web: best crowd control spell in the game

With all the spell dmage specs i cant argue against AA to hard bosses with otu resist it adds up to a tone of damage EVENTUALY it;s slow as **** though, btu one AA one fog, one WoF on sorjek never hurts
Lack of REsist energy hurts me... I Hate to be reliant on other for such a basic need.
Other great options Oozze puppet for Enter the kolbold, Knock for shroud.....

I do however think you have to many nuke spells and AA is an easy one to drop imo sicne i find level 2 spelsl the Hardest to find room for.

3rd
Displacement: solid defensive spell, have blur on greensteel bracers
Haste: increase speed and AC
Sleet Storm: strong on steps and ramps, lessens fires, may drop for Ray of Exhaustion
Suggestion: only charm spell with a short duration

Disp & haste agreed totaly
Sleetstorm even with FoM the visual effects are very anoyiogn to a lot of people, and for you to use it you have to get soem oen ELSE to use there SP to make sure every one has FoM, that makes it a selfish spellimo though i agree in the right group it is VERY powerfull, more the realm of a wizzard imo who can swap it in at the right times.
Suggestion I dotn have btu may be pickign up any day now my self was never a strogn charmer and prot used to take up a slot here.
RAGE is a GREAT level 3 spell 16 free HP woohooo and fro DPS fights thats +1-2 damage to every attacks fro your melles/ranegrs with bows

4th
Enervation: negative levels are strong
Fire Shield: strong defensive spell and cuts fire/cold damage in half
Phantasmal Killer: things still die to it, so it’s a one shot death effect
Wall of Fire: solid fire damage spell

the PErfect levle 4 spell set IMO

5th
Ball Lightning: strong, fast, area of effect damage
Cloudkill: solid crowd control spell, love to use on Vision fire bats
Cone of Cold: solid cold spell area of effect
Dismissal: will save instant death spell, may drop for Symbol of Pain

Cant argue with these really, all solid choices fro sure sicne you have the lightning spec... Though i will say Break enchantment has a toen fo GREAT uses now.

6th
Acid Cloud: good crowd control
Disintegrate: for undead bosses mostly, etc.
Flesh to Stone: for things with Death Ward
(Chain Lightning with level increase, never misses high level spell)

once agian imo the Perfect level 6 spell selection..... IF you wernt speced fro force and had MM.. this makes distigrate over kill imo since most of the high levle stuff now has crazzy saves and it rarly gets to really do it;s good damage.
Lots of other level 6 options to replace it imo that woudl be better suited as long as you still have MM.

7th
Finger of Death: instant death
Delayed Blast Fireball: good high level damage
(Hold Person, Mass with level increase, awesome crowd control)

seams great to me, i not a big fan of DBFB my self mostly becasue you need to swap items form your standard sup pot6 to use it properly, and it's just another nuke and i find with WoF/Scorching/PR/CoC realyl i can nuke 95% of everythign i ever wanted to any way, and you have some big lightnign spells as well...

8th
Polar Ray: good high level damage
(Horrid Wilting with level increase for negative high level damage)

HW will suck balls unless you can find 100% more damage fro it IE no AP's and no sup neg 8/ sup pot 8 items.

Basically I like carrying spells to solve problems which is why I have the spells I do.

Was thinking of dropping Nightshield, Sleet Storm, and Dismissal for Ray of Enfeeblement, Ray of Exhaustion and Symbol of Pain. What do you guys think?

Nightshield is kind of useless unless I am in the Demon Queen raid and even then I can use clickies. It’s a nice to have my resistance slot open, but that doesn’t seem like enough reason to carry it.

MM imunity is nothign to forget imo CT is the one tyo drop for RoE i know you want to combo them BUT CT is stat damage so the mobs peopel actuly want to RoE, (big red/purple named) are imune to CT any way and if you spend tiem RoE/CT a trash mob to zero str then you should of just webed it or FoDed it.

Sleet Storm though disliked is very strong if your party has Freedom of Movement and actually cools fires in the area of effect and blinds opponents. It just gets a bum rap because it effects the party, but on ramps and stairs, it’s amazing.

Agreed but its; visual effetc can alos be anoyign at times. it is imo an easy swap out spell left better to the domain of wizard that arnt stuck with it all the time.

Dismissal is sort a restricted Finger of Death to outsiders and it's a Will save vs. a Fortitude. Might as well use Finger of Death really and Phantasmal Killer.

Can't argue at all i don;t caryr it on my sorc, though SoP i had for quite a while and foudn i realyl was just not useign it ever it has a save so teh big bosses i realyl wanted to hit just saved most of the time, and with it's VERY long recast because it;s a symbol spell it just wasent worht it.

The thing is if you are going to carry debuffs, I might as well carry a few of them. So it’s all or nothing thing. Even though I like the spells, perhaps variety might serve the party and my interests better.

I dot't think you have to go all or nothign I caryr RoE the biggest debuf of them all really just it helps a lot and it cast fast so ti cna be forced through SR quickly also no save.

Ray of Enfeeblement combined with Ray of Exhaustion and Chill Touch will enable me to reduce an opponent to zero quickly. The strength damage from Chill Touch does not work on raid bosses, but Symbol of Pain does and those 3 spells should debuff a boss. The higher level Exhaustion/Fatigue spells seem redundant to me, and I can’t see giving up higher level damage spells for debuffs on a sorcerer, but if I can fit these in, I want to.

I;ve found scrolsl of waves of exaustion work great my self on elite it may takle a few tryies but it will succed eventualy...



All in all i think your got a great list but with a few to mainy nukes... I carry 5 nukes on my sorc and have never had a problem contributing in everythign on elite...
(scorching, WoF, CoC, P-Ray, Distigrate)
With your mutie elmetal spec I;d rep distigrate with MM, and add in one Electric spell my self.. we both have acid for mine is realyl onyl for CC yours would actuly do some damage
This would free up a few slots for you to put debufs or buffs in in sted of as you put it selfish spells

[sirgog]

Personalyl I'd never be without at least one spell to mitigate incoming elemental damage. Any of Resist Energy, Protection from Energy, Protection from Elements and Mass Protection from Elements would work for you - I'd take the Mass Prot personally, as you only need to give up Delayed Blast Fireball for it, which is a pretty terrible spell IMO (everything you really care about dealing damage to at endgame is either immune or has so many HP that a 500-point Fireball isn't noticed by it at all). OTOH, Mass Prot Elements will help a little in areas where you take repeated small amounts of elemental damage (e.g. around Mephits), and helps tremendously in the areas where you take large bursts of damage (e.g. Arraetrikos, SoS Fire area, Enter the Kobold). I'd also drop Disintegrate, as again everything except Sor'jek that you'd want to hit with it pretty much always saves and even when they don't, the damage isn't astounding. (GH is great, as it makes you immune to Fear, which is IMO the most serious debuff effect that's widely used by foes at endgame).

Debuffs-wise, Ray of Enfeeblement is stellar. Absolutely amazing spell, saves you a lot of damage when a melee foe gets near, and to top it off costs only 10 SP. Ray of Exhaustion is nice, and works on most purple nameds (Suulomades is only hit by Waves spells, as is Lailat for that matter but she's cake now; Sor'jek and the Abbot are immune).

[Lehrman]

Was thinking of picking up some debuffs since I have some spells that are more or less self serving or situational. I don't carry any buffs except Haste and Displacement as I feel other spells are typically carried by other classes. I am equally spec’d for Force/Fire and Electric damage. I don’t need Jump, I just Tumble out of the way after I cast a spell if I’m about to be hit.

Here is my spell list and why.

1st
Ray of Enfeeblement: Hey man, you wanted Debuffs...
JUMP: to avoid an army of renders while kiting mobs through FWs
Magic Missile: Why are you force specced if you only have 1 force based spell?
Nightshield: Keep this one forget your cookies and wands...

2nd
Resist Energy: DR 30 vs. elements...
Knock: Because being able to unlock a lever in Shroud is good.
Scorching Ray: never misses, solid damage
Web: best crowd control spell in the game

3rd
Displacement: solid defensive spell, have blur on greensteel bracers
Haste: increase speed and AC
Protection from Energy: Yes, it costs more than global prots, but you rarely need more than two of them at a given time.
Ray of Exhaustion: Hey man, you wanted debuffs. This has two effects. on a failed save its -6, on a save its -2, so you can hit a mob twice and end up with -8

4th
Enervation: negative levels are strong
Fire Shield: strong defensive spell and cuts fire/cold damage in half
Phantasmal Killer: things still die to it, so it’s a one shot death effect
Wall of Fire: solid fire damage spell

5th
Ball Lightning: strong, fast, area of effect damage
Cloudkill: solid crowd control spell, love to use on Vision fire bats
Cone of Cold: solid cold spell area of effect
Hold Monster: Get yourself some X of punct picks, this one rocks fighter/rogue/barb class mobs. The fighter and barbs will usually save on your PK anf Fod.

6th
Acid Cloud: good crowd control
Disintegrate: for undead bosses mostly, etc.
Flesh to Stone: for things with Death Ward
Mass Suggestion: Good for zerging, charm and run. If ne break, they will turn on each other. If they are aggroed on each other, then they are not aggroed on you.

7th
Finger of Death: instant death
Delayed Blast Fireball: good high level damage
Dancing Sphere: Drop a CK and web in your sphere and just drag aggroed mobs back and forth through it till they fail a save.

8th
Polar Ray: good high level damage
(Horrid Wilting with level increase for negative high level damage)

Either waves of exhaustion or waves of fatigue have no save, I forget which, but it can be used off a scroll except on mobs with SR. One thing to keep in mid though is that you are a Sorc. If the group wants massive amounts of debuffs, then they should get a wizard.

[lOprahl]

some suggestions

Drop PK...between Banish/Dismissal, FOD, and Flesh to Stone you should be good. Any spell that gives a mob 2 saves to hit just isn't very efficient

In my experience, splitting aps between Force,Fire, Electric and Acid isn't as efficient as choosing one elemental damage / crit line and maxing it out.


"Melf’s Acid Arrow: extended will kill anything while I hide, I’m spec’d"

--- sigh*

[muffinlad]

As stated by a few others, I can't see not having Resists for your level 2 spell. Not only does it help you, but as a sorc, you have more mana than anyone else, and you can help your party.

I would seriously focus on one damage line, and if you had one extra point, put that in your secondary elemental line for a slight boost. Everything else can focus on your insta-kills.

I have two level 16 sorcs, one is an insta-killer and the other a crowd controller, and I generally have fun playing either one.

I would also take one of your level 5 spells, and change it to Prot. All Elements. Even if it is not mass, you can save your own behind at times using this spell.

Waves of Exhaustion and Waves of Fatigue work well off scrolls, and so does Enervate (though, I typically carry both scrolls, and the spell, as I really like taking a huge number of levels from people before I waste bigger mana in some of the newer areas).

Good luck and have fun,

muffinsorc.