Confessions of a Great Crossbow user.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

There's been a few receont posts about Great Crossbows, and I've shared some comments about my experiance and opinions there.

But I thought I'd add a few build ideas. (well one actually)

This is not a bad weapon....and Uber ones can be gotten very cheaply.
But as the owner of a one-trick pony, I would suggest not centering a build around this weapon, or any one weapon. But make a more generic build that could also use Great Crossbows.

I suggest a Rgr.
Probably Human for the extra feat, but that is the only real reason for suggesting Human.

You need three feats to make a great Great Crossbow user.
Exotic Wep Great Crossbow (of course)
Rapid Reload
Improved Crit Ranged (which IMO any Rgr should take eventually anyway)

Rgrs get all the other important feats you might want.
Plus Rangers are defiantely not one-trick ponies.

You could then use whichever ranged wep you have in a given situation... Bow, Crossbow, Great crossbow. And be good at all of them. Plus TWF (prob not Tempest though )....and stil be a very good char IMO.

Splashing Ftr 1 or 2, could prob fit Tempest into a build as well.
Or for the really ranged enthusiest, one 0r both repeater proficencies.

Note, non-proficiency penalty is only -4 to hit. The same as Manyshot!
So you don't really need to be proficent to use them.

[Strumpoo]

Talon -

I am one of those poor suckers who built a great Xbow user as well.

I will agree it isn't a "bad" weapon. But it isn't really "good" either.. The rate of fire stinks even with Rapid shot and Rapid Reload.

Crit range increase did help, a little... Overall I would consider any Great Xbow user a "sub par" build in high level quests due to damage output.


I actually posted a couple builds I was thinking of rerolling my guy into in a different thread:



http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=165784



I was focusing specifically on the Great Xbow as a weapon though, mixed in with some UMD and diplo.

After messing with some builds I think Kensai or barb may be the way to go with these pigs. but, if you are going to go barb you had better hurry, since the only reason to would be for Crit Rage II.

I think I like the Kensai build the best, since it gives a permanent boost to damage, saves, crit confirms (and damage), and a permanant crit range increase. It also allows you to use your UMD skills to heal if you need to, unlike the barb.

[Turial]

Fighter Kensai will be the way to go with crossbow users once it is out.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

My Ftr is prob all set up to go Kensei.

He's actually pretty good at lvl 12, but that is because I have all the Uber weps and few PUGers my lvl do. I'm sure my guy's kill count will deminish rapidly as I lvl up.

Prob is he's a one-trick pony. He sucks at melee. And doesn't take getting beat on well. Also saves aren't so good....etc.

He's a master of a gimped form of combat.

My suggestions are based on the idea of making a char that can do many things well, and still use cheap great crossbows.

I've also got a Ftr14/Rgr2 Archer build. Who suffers from the same problems.
A bow and manyshot are a better weapon, but it's more difficult to get Uber bows than Uber great crossbows.
Also the crit range makes Smiting and Banishing GCs better than Bows IMO. And Punctering GCs better than bows as well I think.

[Strumpoo]

Yeah the crit range is better for the special effects. Thats about all they have going for them in the ranged combat arena.

Maybe the greensteel versions would help somewhat, since they would have some nice crit effects to take advantage of the expanded crit range, plus the extra damage.

Yeah, I think my Great Xbow user is 12 or so too. He works ok now, but that is due to his WOP Xbow. I think he would suffer in the higher level stuff since I didn't build him with enough survivability.

Gonna re-do him when I get a chance. And he will most likely be Kensai.

[tihocan]

Is there a single great xbow that is better than an equivalent repeater?

[Turial]

Is there a single great xbow that is better than an equivalent repeater?

Considering repeaters beat the snot out of some melee weapons I would say nope.

[Litz]

Is there a single great xbow that is better than an equivalent repeater?

I assume the whole idea is that we are talking about availability of the item. Say soome disruptor x-bow. Your probabley more able to find someone willing to part with a great crossbow than a repeater. Yes they are more willing to give it up because they spent a feat in it because overall it deals more damage or more chances to hit. The thing is that the differance is not that noticable to warrant joining the crowd and competing for what little weapons there are on the market pushing prices ever upward..

I can be wrong though, it's happened before..

[Seelie]

My little lvl 4 human fighter is specialized for Great Crossbow ... and gearing for Kensai as well. Nice to know I wasn't thinking in a vacuum

[Strumpoo]

Is there a single great xbow that is better than an equivalent repeater?

Well, on a shot for shot basis the Great Xbows are better for anything that requires a crit to work. And anything that has high DR, like eles (though not much better).

Like banishing, smiting, WOP, WOE.

But the repeater makes up for this with their insane fire rate..

[tihocan]

But the repeater makes up for this with their insane fire rate..

That's the point. If the repeater is 3x faster (not sure if it's the case, not a big xbow user myself), then you'll still crit more often with the repeater.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Two advantages from Great Crossbows IMO.

Crit Range!
And CHEAP!!!!!

Crit range means Banishers and smiters work very well. Also puncterers etc.

Cheap means you can have great ones before most other people have them.

My W/P was given to me.

I did Invaders (@ lvl 11) and I was the only one with a banisher for example.

All the feats that would work om a repeater would work on a great crossbow.
Most of the feats that work on a bow work on a great crossbow.

Thus my suggestion to make a versitle great crossbow user that can use which ever weapon he has that would be best in a given situation.

You could also respect later if you reached a point where any GCs you have were useless.


For instance, if my guy ever aquires Uber repeaters I may respect or at least take repeater proficiency as I lvl up.

But just try to buy a W/P repeater on the AH! Like I said, my W/P GC was a gift.

Edit: You could even bring 12 W/P GCs and give them to everyone in your raid! That would definately do more DPS/con damage than a repeater for a fraction of the cost of one. lol.

I bet Prey would be easy w 6 W/P GC users.

[Myxalplyx]

Wow! I hope these posts continue. I have a pure Great Crossbow build. Posted in another forum here about the build. Totally fun! Who needs DPS? I have W/P, Banisher, disruptors, etc. My primary weap is the wounding puncturing. It is awesome. I am usually leading the kills or slightly behind and when I am slightly behind, it is mainly a caster using firewall, cleric using BB or another uber build using W/P or specialized weapon.

One key item people tend to forget are the slaying bolts. I live and die by these. These on top of W/P or especially disruptors/banishers/smiters are AWESOME. No sense arguing with people on theories. In application, it is great. I can say this now since I have all the crossbows I need. I will see you on Khyber sometime. Happy Grouping. I generally used a repeater build (http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=97284)
and implemented it to Great Crossbows....with some changes.

Xbows
Lvl 16 Fighter
All Great Crossbow Build!

[Noctus]

I understand the great advantages of being able to aquire all the neccessary effect weapons much easier and much cheaper on a Crossbow user.

But i see a big disadvantage:
An equally equiped repeating crossbow user on the same build of character will have many more attacks in the same time, and so be plainly better than a normal Crossbow user.
For just the cost of 1 feat.

[Anthios888]

Anyone made a radiance II on a great crossbow user?

[Myxalplyx]

I understand the great advantages of being able to aquire all the neccessary effect weapons much easier and much cheaper on a Crossbow user.

But i see a big disadvantage:
An equally equiped repeating crossbow user on the same build of character will have many more attacks in the same time, and so be plainly better than a normal Crossbow user.
For just the cost of 1 feat.

Nice point! On paper it makes sense. Is there anyone here who would like to test this in action? If you have this build on Khyber, let's group up sometime. Let's test this on a lvl 16+ quest, preferrably on elite. I am interested in seeing how this turns out. Send me a tell or email. Thanks!

Xbows
(Pure Great Crossbow User)
Khyber

[Strumpoo]

I would say the repeater would probably win out (that rate of fire will be too much for the crit range to overcome). But it would be a nice comparison to see the differences.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I would say the repeater would probably win out (that rate of fire will be too much for the crit range to overcome). But it would be a nice comparison to see the differences.

Just looking at the stats, and assuming a repeater fires three times as fast, I think the repeater wins out.

Great Crossbow crits 17-20 or 15- 20 Improved Crit.
Repeater 19-20 or 17 - 20 Improved crit.

That's only 1/10th more crits.

I never tried to suggest the Great Crossbow is an Uber wep.

I'm pointing out that Uber ones can be gotten dirt cheap, and way before most other players can get Uber weps.

And that in the case of Smiters. banishers, and punctering...enfeebling etc.
The GC crits a lot and those weps work very well on GC.

My W/P GC was given to me......how much did your W/P repeater cost?

[Myxalplyx]

My W/P GC was given to me......how much did your W/P repeater cost?

My son gave me my W/P GC. He was going to sell it to the House D vendor. I told him if he gave that to me, I'd build a toon totally around Great Crossbow usage.

Also, never make a claim as to max DPS, etc. I never claim either. It just feels good to get into a quest or raid and either lead in kills or be in the 1st-3rd place kill range in a raid. % wise, that doesn't make sense but a lot of the times, it is the case. The only problem mobs for me are red named bosses. A +5 Transmutting/Maimer would be nice or greater bane Great. I am on the hunt for all 'Great' Great Crossbows now (Got green steel blank but still needs work). I will work on the Green Steel item eventually after learning how to make it properly. With work, school and family to tend too, time is limited in game play and learning all the details on how to make green steel weaps.

I will also say this again to but slayer (And Greater Slaying) bolts are your friend. It's what helps me get the jump in kills very early on in any quests/raid. It is not feasible to get slayer bolts on a repeater because of the costs of them. You'd shoot 3 at a time vs one at a time and some will go to waste.

With Improved Precise Shot, Halfling Cunning and Halfiing Cunning, you can strafe around to the rear of large mob crowds and shoot through them all. Great for Puncturing everything between you and your intended mob. You can do multiple disruptions/slayerings in a row as well. Trust me I know. Running around in Meridia and Orchard doing multiple disruptions is hella fun.

When the lvl cap goes up, I will be adding Hafling Guile to the mix. I alrady have one level of it for sneak attack bonus.

Not trying to convince you to make a toon out of this. It is my favorite build right now for fun factor. The more people hate it and hate Great Crossbows, the better. I had a repeater build but there is always something about people laughing and ridiculing a toon only to be overtook in kills. My son and I have done a few quests together and he uses Illuminati's builds on here. It is always me getting a lead while he tries to catch up. Good fun!!

[Strumpoo]

Just looking at the stats, and assuming a repeater fires three times as fast, I think the repeater wins out.

Great Crossbow crits 17-20 or 15- 20 Improved Crit.
Repeater 19-20 or 17 - 20 Improved crit.

That's only 1/10th more crits.

I never tried to suggest the Great Crossbow is an Uber wep.

I'm pointing out that Uber ones can be gotten dirt cheap, and way before most other players can get Uber weps.

And that in the case of Smiters. banishers, and punctering...enfeebling etc.
The GC crits a lot and those weps work very well on GC.

My W/P GC was given to me......how much did your W/P repeater cost?

I don't have a repeater build. I did just reroll my great crossbow build though. Had him up to 13 but he wasn't working as well I as wanted. So now he is level 2 again. Going Kensai/rogue all the way...

I pulled my WOP great xbow out of a chest.