Paladin: Defender of Siberys

[nbhs275]

-sigh- can we PLEASE get a bump to our actual Intimidate instead of these "Increased hate from Melee Attacks" THing?

although i do agree with better intim being a good thing, i also gotta say, 200% hate, along with all the other things for hate bonus, could mean just a single smite could land you the aggro of sally for the entire raid. hmm, 500 damage, x2 from defender hate, 25% WF, x2 from divine righteousness. If they are stacking pnp style, your looking at ALOT of aggro.

[etelan]

To be totally honest, I don't see how the other pally PrE's are even close to as powerful as this one. This one seems a bit excessive really.

It certainly won't be any more popular over the others than ranger tempest is over the other ranger PrE's. I think the important thing is the other options are there just to provide a little variety. Besides, they all definetly have their uses. Great job Turbine on pally PrE's!

[etelan]

Wow... nice... I feel the Siberys will truly be defended now.

I also like the dr/20 epic for when even high AC isn't helping you out.

Does this put well geared Paly AC near well geared monk?

With this and the right DT armor I should be close to 80 on a pure pally. While it's not the best I've seen I'd say that qualifies as near well geared monk, but with lots of other cool defensive abilities. He will be quite the tank next mod.

[Geonis]

This PrE looks pretty good. Much better than the Knight of the Chalice.

But, again what is up with the Faith 2 enhancement prereq?

Not many take these to begin with, and then you force people to take them?

[Junts]

I don't really see how this pre is clearly superior to the others; it is clearly superior for tanking purposes (if you have the dex on a tank paladin to get a lot out of the dex mod changes; someone needs to clarify these, are you getting +1, +2 or +3 mdb total by the 3rd tier, Eladrin?), it is questionably superior for drawing aggro (since you need to keep up with the mob first), and the secondary effects is nice (specifically, if it makes you immune to things like suulo's curse or knockdown; if its just **** like vorpal and wounding, that's pointless, because death ward does that!)

this pre is aimed at a certain subset of paladin functions, just like the other is - in fact, i think knight of the chalice will be more popular, as its a pre that gives paladins ranger dps and people like dps.

However, it's quite nice, though I need to sit down and compare the math requirements exactly; i think the ap reqiurements here are more onerous than chalice (faith2 and resistance 3, plus the other aura ****).

since this class has an actual feat requirement, eladrin, you need to bring its ap cost down (said thisfor chalice, which just has less total bonuses than other pres, too). paladins are incredibly problematic ap wise, and these prcs, while they look great, are way less impressive when you start to consider what people will have to give up to be able to afford them.

faith2 enhancements blow; make them worth taking or take them out of the requirement list and replace them with appropriate class enhancements. they are expensive. grant bonuses with useless equipment, and except for unyielding sovreignty are not all that great anyway. i dont even take them on clerics! I understand that all prestige classes have rp-appropriate enhancement requirements that increase their passive cost, but for paladins this is getting particularly onerous as you're actually forcing paladins to hurt themselves in other ways to get these benefits.

all 3 paladin prcs have great effects, though I don't see how people think this one is better than knight of the chalice, though its more interesting and people like the rp and image more.

I play a paladin intimitank and I still think I'd rather have chalice unless I learn more about the passive mdb bonuses; dps is just more relevant and significant, unless quest design is changing enormously.

[noinfo]

Defender of Siberys I


Defender of Siberys I: Defensive Stance
You may expend a Paladin armor boost to become a bastion of defense, gaining a +2 Sacred bonus to Strength and Constitution, a +1 Sacred bonus on all saves, a +2 Dodge bonus to Armor Class, and produce 50% more hate with your melee attacks. While in this stance, you move at one quarter speed.

What I am concerned about is if these stances can be used with other stances such as CE. If not there is not any AC benefit to be had here. Same with power attack. If they do stack then pallys will be getting a decent boost.

[Gol]

Heh, I see the whining already. Zeal turns off the stance. Nice!

[Korvek]

My monk with a 70's standing ac says it would be nice to have PLATE wearers be on the front line.

That TWF Pal 18/Monk 2 probably won't be wearing plate.

[Junts]

although i do agree with better intim being a good thing, i also gotta say, 200% hate, along with all the other things for hate bonus, could mean just a single smite could land you the aggro of sally for the entire raid. hmm, 500 damage, x2 from defender hate, 25% WF, x2 from divine righteousness. If they are stacking pnp style, your looking at ALOT of aggro.

more importantly for vod, w ill the tier3 make you immune to the curse? if so, useful, if not, that whole section is a fancy-looking joke.


no one has ever been seriously threatened by kai-teng and wop or vorpal. as long as deathward blocks vorpal, the idea that people need to be immune to it is a joke

[etelan]

-sigh- can we PLEASE get a bump to our actual Intimidate instead of these "Increased hate from Melee Attacks" THing?

Based on the premise of each of the d&d melee classes I do not think paladins should ever become the master of intimidation.

[Yaga_Nub]

This PrE looks pretty good. Much better than the Knight of the Chalice.

But, again what is up with the Faith 2 enhancement prereq?

Not many take these to begin with, and then you force people to take them?

I see it as this PrE (and it's benefits) are a boon from your faith. Paladins need to be tied to a faith in some way IMHO and this is as good as any way to do.

[ArkoHighStar]

Additional things needing some clarification

Tier 1:
additional armor class when blocking with a shield(how much of a bonus to AC)

Tier 3
This prestige enhancement increases the strength of all of your defensive auras(Does this mean an additional bonus to AC aura etc)

[Darth_Sizzle]

This looks awesome except for one thing

...Defender of Siberys I: Defensive Stance
You may expend a Paladin armor boost...

Please allow us to use Paladin armor boost OR Human Versatility armor boost

I really don't want to waste AP to have the same thing twice...

[Geonis]

I see it as this PrE (and it's benefits) are a boon from your faith. Paladins need to be tied to a faith in some way IMHO and this is as good as any way to do.

You may as well say the abilities come from a Paladins "sorcerous powers", it makes about as much sense.

The Paladin in and of him(her)self is a bastion of faith. Being forced to spend 6 APs on crappy faith "enhancements" in an AP starved class, so that it matches some ideal fantasy of yours (or others), is just more of a kick in the boys.

[Riggs]

Question

Will the magic circle/mass shield of faith stack?

or will they be plain old deflection bonuses? In which case its not going to benefit the vast majority. Even if it helps the nearby wiz who doesnt have a deflection item say...getting the wiz from a 24 ac to a 28 isnt a worthwhile level 18 ability, not when every single player who wants ac already is using a +4 or +5 item.

The duration on buffs and abilities is going to be an issue as said. There are already a lot of 1 minute duration things out there, and with the cooldown, having to stop 10-20 seconds out of every minute if you want to keep 'fully buffed' is not always a good way to increas eyour fighting ability.

The dodge bonus is cool for someone in plate. However as long as it doesnt lead to more power creep. Shroud devils and some high level monsters have started hitting more often now that icy raiments and all the monk splashes have been showing up. There is no point adding more dodge bonuses to classes if high level monsters get the same bonus added to hit - it just kills people under a 50 ac even faster.

[Yaga_Nub]

You may as well say the abilities come from a Paladins "sorcerous powers", it makes about as much sense.

The Paladin in and of him(her)self is a bastion of faith. Being forced to spend 6 APs on crappy faith "enhancements" in an AP starved class, so that it matches some ideal fantasy of yours (or others), is just more of a kick in the boys.

Faith in what? Oh that's right faith is his religion. Without one then he's not a Paladin.

[Gratch]

more importantly for vod, w ill the tier3 make you immune to the curse? if so, useful, if not, that whole section is a fancy-looking joke.

Isn't the curse on-hit and given a will save and shield-blockable? Three things a defender of siberys should have in most cases...

[Artagon]

So... umm.. Can anyone say Levik's Defender?

I think I'll make myself a nice 3-piece set of that, and make a human pally with the human healing amplification line... yeah.... CLW on every hit in that stance along with dr? LoL +50% on my auto-CLW makes me very happy. Healing curse, eat your heart out :/

[Tanka]

You may as well say the abilities come from a Paladins "sorcerous powers", it makes about as much sense.

The Paladin in and of him(her)self is a bastion of faith. Being forced to spend 6 APs on crappy faith "enhancements" in an AP starved class, so that it matches some ideal fantasy of yours (or others), is just more of a kick in the boys.

I'm rather a fan of Unyielding Sovreignty. 1,000HP LoH that cures everything, including death penalty? Sure, the 2AP pre-req is lame (+1 to-hit with longswords? Yaaaaawn), but the end result is rather nice in a pinch.

And the Paladin gets his spells and abilities from his faith. It isn't himself, because then he would be a Fighter.

In Eberron, your faith can be an ideal, but the idea is the same. There must be a driving force that the Paladin believes in that is not himself that makes him push himself to defeat Evil.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Dodge Bonuses Stack, as long as they are not from an identical source (read: item).
Chaosguarde + Icy Raimnet + Chattering Ring all stack... so should this.

Not true. The dev post specifically said they don't stack if they are the same BONUS so two +1s do not stack, two +2s do not stack, source doesn't matter, the + does.