Monastery of the Scorpian: Really?

[dameron]

I dunno, if I knew I could be erased from existence by someone solving a puzzle, I suspect I would try to prevent them from getting to that puzzle at any cost. Especially if I knew my ranks in spot weren't that good. To quote Belkar from Oots, 'I think I missed a spot check'

I think you may have hit upon why it's so bad.

There's nothing wrong with the dungeon at all, it's actually kind of amusing, until the end fight. The conceit is ridiculous, even relative to a typical D&D adventure.

I'm 100% sick of the lazy deux ex machina "solve the puzzle to kill the boss" **** that's infected so much of the content.

A hint to Turbine: there's no class in PnP called a "Solver".

[Vorn]

What bugs me about this one is on elite, he has a bunch of respawning friends, who continue coming even after the puzzle is solved.

[VirieSquichie]

I think you may have hit upon why it's so bad.

There's nothing wrong with the dungeon at all, it's actually kind of amusing, until the end fight. The conceit is ridiculous, even relative to a typical D&D adventure.

I'm 100% sick of the lazy deux ex machina "solve the puzzle to kill the boss" **** that's infected so much of the content.

A hint to Turbine: there's no class in PnP called a "Solver".

Exactly....nice place up until the end room. Then the design goes to pot...

[SableShadow]

There's nothing wrong with the dungeon at all, it's actually kind of amusing, until the end fight.

I would go so far to say that the dungeon design is fairly brilliant; no classes are required, though a classic party is strongly encouraged. Semi-random design to enhance replay value, varied foe types, varied red name spawns, etc.

End fight is a little odd, though, and could use a tweak.

[Tarackian]

Sure look at the abbot....i see LFMs up for that one all the time. When you make something ridiculous people will tend to not run it. Its not because of the difficulty, tests are fun....Its because it is ridiculous. Puzzles that through no fault of your own are unsolvable...why is that? Come up with a better puzzle. Stop reusing shroud puzzles.....

I never had a problem solving the puzzle, people say sometimes it's unsolvable, but I've never seen it happen yet.

And I should be tough, the game needs tougher material, to stop people from rolling over it like nothing. Every quest, IMO, should be failed at least 20% of the time. Not that you did anything differnt or had differnt people in the group, but just because. The quest should be hard enough that you can't complete it every time, but easy enoguh that it is possible and can be done with out a major loss. So good for Turbine making a tough quest! 1 tough quest down, 100 more to go!

[Riggs]

Unkillable bosses that need a puzzle to solve are annoying enough.

When the boss hits for 100-120 damage per hit, ac does not matter (AC 70 and blocking and was hit without fail until dead), having to find a way to 'solve a puzzle while a named boss who is tougher than the big red raid boss is hitting you is a real....annoyance.

Lets say annoyance. Because that is printable.

How stupid is the end fight? Put the Drow boss in the shroud with a couple minions to beat on portals. Watch as the Drow boss destroys Arratrikios because hes also immune to fire, has just as many hit points, hits more, and hits twice as hard. Yeah.

The rest of the quest is neat though.

[rayflo]

so theres a tough quest and you have to use your brain in it. hmmmm how dare you turbine. im sick of your bs. oh btw if you cant tell im being sarcastic...

way to go turbine

[Lewcipher]

Recalling and reforming shouldnt be a more viable tactic then facing the boss. And how much damage it takes to get a tile to lock also seems to be random, as i've both seen it lock after him taking less then 1000 damage, and him having locked zero even when he is at less then 50%.

And you also need to hope he locks a light somewhere near the problem area, or he could lock 10+ and not make the puzzle solvable.

OH, and if the puzzle deals you up the 6 configuration, he needs to lock 2-3 of the involved pieces to solve it.

Each tile unlocks after about 10-15% damage. Problem is, if the puzzle can't be solved first time, you lose a chest.

I am a loot ****

If ANYONE gets incapped or killed, he regens to full health.

I love the quest, just really hate the mechanics behind the end fight/solve.

[dameron]

I love the quest, just really hate the mechanics behind the end fight/solve.

That's the problem with a ton of modules in DDO.

The final fight in this dungeon is just the most current and obvious example of the quest "design" of many "end boss" fights.

They just don't get it.

[MrCow]

If ANYONE gets incapped or killed, he regens to full health.

That is a visual display bug, from what I have seen. I've had a couple cases where Sannyasi did the "full health and drop the debuffs" as if it tethered back, but later on it would simply die later even though it had 30% or so health left. Three of the times I've done this I did it with Melf's Acid Arrow as my only safe offensive measure so it was very obvious when Sannyasi died with some health remaining.

[Mindspat]

Then your either lucky, or considering puzzles that need to be locked "solvable"

Sometimes we're in amazement as to how fast he solves the puzzles. I think it even catches him off guard some times.

You do realize you don't haev to fight the scorpian, right?

spoiler below:

exhaust the hell out of that thing with every exhaustive effect you can think of then have your caster use Melf's Acid Arrow on it and kite it around the room. They won't even need a haste. Draccus usually have the puzzle solved in less then 3-4 circles around the room.

[Mindspat]

That's the problem with a ton of modules in DDO.

The final fight in this dungeon is just the most current and obvious example of the quest "design" of many "end boss" fights.

They just don't get it.

Would you be kind enough to elaborate?

I suspect you have something good to say that wasn't present in the above quote.

[bobbryan2]

Would you be kind enough to elaborate?

I suspect you have something good to say that wasn't present in the above quote.

I understood it...

[nbhs275]

so theres a tough quest and you have to use your brain in it. hmmmm how dare you turbine. im sick of your bs. oh btw if you cant tell im being sarcastic...

way to go turbine

OK Yet again, ill explain this. There is a difference between "difficult" and "unsolvable".

If the puzzle is solvable, no matter how you try you will at some point beat the quest simply by messing with the puzzle.

If the puzzle is unsolvable, Which happens nearly any time the puzzle has the

XX
XO
XX

Configuration, you have to fight an end boss that your clearly not intended to fight.

If the puzzle is completable, it takes only about 30 seconds to complete. If its unsolvable, your only real options are to harm the boss until he locks a piece that makes the puzzle solvable, which could mean him locking up to 12 pieces, or recall.

It's not a problem of me going "ouch my brain hurts", It's a problem of "well sh*t, turbine didn't check thier math and we got served an incompletable puzzle. Let's recall and reform then."

and i guess this should become my warcry, RECALLING SHOULDNT BE A TACTIC

[kamimitsu]

Well nbhs275, I've come over to your side of the argument. After another month of doing daily Monastery runs, I've started getting as many as 7 unsolvable puzzles in a row. Recalling is definitely the better option (especially on elite), which from a design standpoint is bad mojo. Count me converted.

[Gunga]

Grow a ****.

[Lifespawn]

i solo this daily with my clerics and sorcs takes 10 min or so and ****es me off with the unsolvables and they do seem more prevalent on elite.

[nbhs275]

Grow a ****.

Well, i guess its a sentance. Big step up for you eh gunga?

[Gunga]

Well, i guess its a sentance.

Yep. That's done it.

You're the best.

[Pyromaniac]

The puzzle isn't always solveable, so its kind of disappointing to lose out on a chest from luck vs skill.

That being said, the boss is pretty easy to beat down assuming you're not soloing.