Monastery of the Scorpian: Really?

[nbhs275]

Really? Your going to give us an "end fight" that relies on us either solving a puzzle, or beating down a very tough enemy? Sounds very cool.

But then you make the puzzle completely unsolvable more then 50% of the time. Which leaves us only the option of beating down the boss. OHH, but lets give the boss in excess of 50,000 HP, immunity to fire, the ability to bypass AC and displacement, a normal hit of over 100 damage, make him move like a hasted barbarian, and make it so he heals to full power any time he kills a party member.

Turbine, why make an end fight where the puzzle is the focus, and then make most of the puzzles completly unsolvable without attacking the boss. And it seems rather obvious that the goal was to make us work on the puzzle, so that we could get the extra end chest. Seems like an ass backwards plan when you add in a no solution puzzle. Maybe you could just put an intern on the job of removing the 4+ different puzzles with no solution.

[Jay203]

o rly?
last time i did that quest i completed the puzzle with the group without anyone having to worry much about drow scorp =)

[Tuney]

i've heard people say its unsolvable. But i think its people using the 'solver' and the puzzle MIGHT be solveable just the solver can't figure it out. I once used the solver that required 2 steps to finish but the solver turned it into 5 steps. (This was for the shroud puzzle)

[sirgog]

i've heard people say its unsolvable. But i think its people using the 'solver' and the puzzle MIGHT be solveable just the solver can't figure it out. I once used the solver that required 2 steps to finish but the solver turned it into 5 steps. (This was for the shroud puzzle)

I can confirm that i've had a puzzle I could mathematically prove was unsolvable, as I could find a subset of the puzzle tiles that, no matter what moves you made, an odd number of them would always be unlit.


We beat down the boss to 90% so a tile blew up, that didn't help, so we beat him to 80% to blow up another tile and we then had a tough, but solvable puzzle.


By the way, the way the solver is programmed, it is incapable of missing a solution.

[Tuney]

I'm not doubting the shroud solver at all. Just saying sometimes programs while YES it will solve a solveable solution it might not always pick quickest path to victory.

[Strykersz]

I'm not doubting the shroud solver at all. Just saying sometimes programs while YES it will solve a solveable solution it might not always pick quickest path to victory.

Ok, but how is that relevant? No one is complaining that it takes an inordinately long amount of time to solve the puzzle. The complaint is, "There are initial puzzle configurations which are not solvable when the boss is clearly designed to not be fought."

[Thrudh]

That end-boss IS impossible...

He hits pretty much every time... and does 100 points a shot...

If it wasn't for our creative <cough, cough> means of distracting him, that quest would be stupidly tough...

[nbhs275]

That end-boss IS impossible...

He hits pretty much every time... and does 100 points a shot...

If it wasn't for our creative <cough, cough> means of distracting him, that quest would be stupidly tough...

They "fixed" that.

My complaint isnt the puzzles being difficult. And im also not saying its unsolvable using a tool. Im saying that because of the setup, there are some puzzles are not solvable. Which only leaves 2 options: Recall, or hurt the boss. And its rather poor design if a party gets through 95% of a quest and has to recall because of a situation completely out of their control or influence.

[Junts]

thats an untrue statement, gog: i have had puzzles it said were unsolvable, then hit some tiles (usually involving 1 isolated on an edge with the ones to either side not part of the puzzle) and got a configuration it thought was solvable.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

thats an untrue statement, gog: i have had puzzles it said were unsolvable, then hit some tiles (usually involving 1 isolated on an edge with the ones to either side not part of the puzzle) and got a configuration it thought was solvable.

If this is happening and you are using my solver (the one on axiomfiles) then can you please screenshot the failing configuration and let me know via PM.

Cheers,

Garth

[bobbryan2]

thats an untrue statement, gog: i have had puzzles it said were unsolvable, then hit some tiles (usually involving 1 isolated on an edge with the ones to either side not part of the puzzle) and got a configuration it thought was solvable.

That's a little anecdotal for me. I'm far more inclined to believe that you entered the lights in wrong the first time.

[Strakeln]

If this is happening and you are using my solver (the one on axiomfiles) then can you please screenshot the failing configuration and let me know via PM.

Cheers,

Garth

On the circle puzzle in the shroud, it's solved (as best I can tell) by tapping two pieces at once.

I wonder if that capability exists on the other shroud puzzles, making impossible configurations a possibility?

[Lithic]

On the circle puzzle in the shroud, it's solved (as best I can tell) by tapping two pieces at once.

I wonder if that capability exists on the other shroud puzzles, making impossible configurations a possibility?

Circle puzzle is never unsolvable. You don't need any fancy footwork to solve it.

As for the other puzzles, I have never been in one where it was unsolvable.

[Lewcipher]

Ran into the unsolvable issue tonight. Had to completely kill him to make it solvable. The wrong tiles kept getting locked. It sucked.

This seems the reverse to me..if you can solve it right away, you get the extra chest, but if we as the DM gods say you can't solve it, then you're punished?

I fail to see the logic in that...

He does hit for over 100hp's a pop. Ignores AC, and Whiskey Tango Foxtrot with the HP's on this dude?

If you get an unsolvable it's faster to recall, regroup and reform. Why is this?

[bobbryan2]

If you get an unsolvable it's faster to recall, regroup and reform. Why is this?

True that. You'll get an extra rune that way too.

[Denssor]

Really? Your going to give us an "end fight" that relies on us either solving a puzzle, or beating down a very tough enemy? Sounds very cool.

But then you make the puzzle completely unsolvable more then 50% of the time. Which leaves us only the option of beating down the boss. OHH, but lets give the boss in excess of 50,000 HP, immunity to fire, the ability to bypass AC and displacement, a normal hit of over 100 damage, make him move like a hasted barbarian, and make it so he heals to full power any time he kills a party member.

Turbine, why make an end fight where the puzzle is the focus, and then make most of the puzzles completly unsolvable without attacking the boss. And it seems rather obvious that the goal was to make us work on the puzzle, so that we could get the extra end chest. Seems like an ass backwards plan when you add in a no solution puzzle. Maybe you could just put an intern on the job of removing the 4+ different puzzles with no solution.

I never had a problem solving the puzzle, people say sometimes it's unsolvable, but I've never seen it happen yet.

And I should be tough, the game needs tougher material, to stop people from rolling over it like nothing. Every quest, IMO, should be failed at least 20% of the time. Not that you did anything differnt or had differnt people in the group, but just because. The quest should be hard enough that you can't complete it every time, but easy enoguh that it is possible and can be done with out a major loss. So good for Turbine making a tough quest! 1 tough quest down, 100 more to go!

[Strykersz]

I never had a problem solving the puzzle, people say sometimes it's unsolvable, but I've never seen it happen yet.

And I should be tough, the game needs tougher material, to stop people from rolling over it like nothing. Every quest, IMO, should be failed at least 20% of the time. Not that you did anything differnt or had differnt people in the group, but just because. The quest should be hard enough that you can't complete it every time, but easy enoguh that it is possible and can be done with out a major loss. So good for Turbine making a tough quest! 1 tough quest down, 100 more to go!

It isn't tough. It's tedious.

[Denssor]

It isn't tough. It's tedious.

From what nbhs says, it is. If it that tough then way to go! Still need more tough quest out there. But like I siad, I NEVER had a problem with the quest, by far the easiest of the 4 new quest.

[gongfu_flour]

sometimes it's unsolvable

when this happened,keep attacking the BOSS and there will be a lighting hit right on the puzzle,one rune one time until the puzzle is solvable

by the way,two of my friends can do this quest in 5min on elite diffy.

[kinar]

I'm pretty sure the puzzle is solveable initially somewhere around 80% of the time (not less than 50% as the OP says). I've ran this at least 25 times and only had to touch him 3 times. Every other time it was solveable without attacking him. Sure, 25 isn't exactly a large enough number that I would consider it a foolproof dataset, but the 80% number coincides with experiences others have told me and what I've read here on the forums.

Personally though, for me, even when it is unsolveable, it isn't worth trying to beat him down.

It litterally takes me 10mins (15 on a bad run) to run the entire quest. I'd rather recall, reset the mission and rerun it than bother with beating him down for 5mins to take a chance at getting it completed and also losing a chest...