Overhaul the Exotic Weapons!!

[Ilundel]

Jeez... Sure, make a khopesh like a longsword with a trip ability. Then laugh while half or more of the player base leaves the game (This would be such a nerf, worse then any nerf turbine has done including Evasion in heavy armor). Why would so much people leave the game? Because most players have at least 1 or more characters that uses Khopesh. They put a feat into it and crafted 1 or several shroud khopesh for their characters. Forcing them to respect a feat and recraft their swords because it's now just a plain old longsword (BTW trip is useless on raid or red named bosses, and that the only place you really want DPS) would be causing such grief. If your not done laughing, then just keep on laughing while you see the other half start grinding shroud again and eventually get bored and leave. BTW half the population leaving the game means you are in trouble, because it means the game will be in trouble financially - thus less developpement, less support.

I agree that currently, Bastard swords are the only exotic weapon where you spend a feat but get very little in return. It should be looked at to make available for 1h wielding OR 2h wielding. That is what a bastard sword is all about

[Vuedoo]

Thats exactly whats broken about the Khopesh. You have a weapon that does the crit damage of a battleaxe with the threat range of a sword. To my knowlege there is no weapon in PnP D&D rules that has anything above a x2 with a 19-20 crit range. If the Khopesh was as broke as it is in DDO every PnP character would be using Khopeshs almost like what we have in DDO. Remove the vertigo enchanment from all existing and future weapons and give Khopesh its trip bonus. Heck remove trip as an ability since we shouldnt be able to use it unless we are using a Khopesh.

Why were Khopesh chose to be artistic licenced into what we have now? I say we even out the exitics a bit since no other exotic weapon has had their stats tweaked from what I can tell. Make the Dwarven axe 19-20 and the Bastage Sword 18-20x2.

The Khopesh was not anything special in D&D other then its trip bonus so I will back up the OP and if he does some forum searches he may find an old post of mine that was locked due to being flamed half to death. That is what happens when you call for a weapon like the Khopesh to be fixed.

This Maybe an arguable opinion to some but its not meant to be.

I Play 2 sword and board Tanks both Use Bastard Swords. I did not choose Bastard sword for easy access to types either ) I could have a Full Arsenal of Kopesh's at will from character Creation to current end game if I chose through my guild. I Chose the Bastard Sword through Nastalgia of an Original Fighter in D&D. I am Not asking for the Kopesh to be Gimped but lets give the bastard Sword its well deserved attention to the problem.



Both My Tanks are very Universal in a group. I can CC with a Paralyzer They Hit 98% of the time for most content. I can nearly match Kill Count in about any group If I choose. ( for Instance I used my new favorite tank in 6 consecutive Shrouds last night, he's collecting ingredients while lvl'ing is the only reason. he's only lvl 14 But I was within 4 kills of the leader in the kill count on all, and everyone in the raids where 16's) I can Intimadate the hound even after the revamp just fine.

but yes if I took Kopesh I could be that much better.

[Strumpoo]

bc of the base rate of fire. and the gxbow is hardly a mini ballista anyway, more like a mini ballista's little sister.


which are deficient compared to others? other than bastard swords there arent any. every weapon has its advantages and disadvantages. and turbine does not choose your race/class/specs so no one forces anyone to be pigeon holed other than oneself.

Well, the bastard sword, the Great Xbow, the kama, the shuriken... these are all inferior weapons..


What are the advantages of the bastard sword, kama, the shuriken, and the Great Xbow, over other weapons of the same type? There are none.

Why should they be weaker in comparision to other weapons that require a feat?

A bump in great xbow firing rate or maybe a "destruction" feature (lowering ac or something) would be helpful.

A THF option for the bastard would be nice.

Maybe an added trip feature to kamas..

A multishot throw (like the bugbear assasins in the cerulean hills?) for shuriken would help them.


These aren't HUGE game changers, just something to help justify spending a feat. they wouldn't nerf anyone's uber khopesh build, so why not help these weapons out a little?

[Demoyn]

What are the advantages of the bastard sword, kama, the shuriken, and the Great Xbow, over other weapons of the same type? There are none.

How many times do you have to be told that the kama is free to monks, and the shuriken is free to monks and drow? These are advantages.

[DSC]

The shuriken is so bad that I'm not sure that is enough. And shuriken also fails to follow PnP rules, where it has a higher rate of fire.

[Strumpoo]

How many times do you have to be told that the kama is free to monks, and the shuriken is free to monks and drow? These are advantages.

Just because a race/class can use a crappy weapon doesn't make it an advantage...

If that weapon had some benefit, it would be an advantage.

Since the weapons have almost a "negative effect" when using them compared to other weapons of the same type, I would NOT call it an advantage to being able to use them.

If we use that same arguement, a fighter can use a Dart, because of a class feat. A monk cannot... Is this an advantage to the fighter? No. Because the dart sucks.

[Demoyn]

The point is that access isn't really restricted and that it shouldn't be held to the same standards. I'd agree that the shuriken's rate of fire should be upped, though.

[Dracolich]

Jeez... Sure, make a khopesh like a longsword with a trip ability. Then laugh while half or more of the player base leaves the game (This would be such a nerf, worse then any nerf turbine has done including Evasion in heavy armor). Why would so much people leave the game? Because most players have at least 1 or more characters that uses Khopesh. They put a feat into it and crafted 1 or several shroud khopesh for their characters. Forcing them to respect a feat and recraft their swords because it's now just a plain old longsword (BTW trip is useless on raid or red named bosses, and that the only place you really want DPS) would be causing such grief. If your not done laughing, then just keep on laughing while you see the other half start grinding shroud again and eventually get bored and leave. BTW half the population leaving the game means you are in trouble, because it means the game will be in trouble financially - thus less developpement, less support.

DUDE!! Half the friggin population has already left!! Where the **** have you been? If the remainder of the people leave because of a **** sword then boo friggin hoo. As far as I am concerned the Khopesh has been broke for far too long. Turbine clamors to fix miniscule "advantages" classes have like the monk healing ability they fixed, the soon to be barbarian fix which was needed. Why should a weapon be any different?

As for grinding the shroud people are already getting bored with it. I think most dont even do it to craft on their mains they do it to have ingredients for their alts. What happens when they have crafted everything they can craft? THEY WILL LEAVE!! duh.

Maybe this **** game needs to die, it has been on a feeding tube for a year now, its time to let it go to sleep. Put a pillow over its head and lets move on to something else with a D&D logo and halfassed rules that are fine as long as they suit you.

[Ilundel]

DUDE!! Half the friggin population has already left!! Where the **** have you been? If the remainder of the people leave because of a **** sword then boo friggin hoo.

Oh I know half the freaking population left, just saying that if you nerf Khopesh, half the remaining population will also leave. And boo hoo?? Well if your supporting a change that will make it that half the remaining population get mad and leave, I'm sorry I still like this game and i'd like to be able to play it until they get DDO2 out... if there is gonna be such a thing.

As far as I am concerned the Khopesh has been broke for far too long. Turbine clamors to fix miniscule "advantages" classes have like the monk healing ability they fixed, the soon to be barbarian fix which was needed. Why should a weapon be any different?

To me, Weapon != Class. Balancing Classes is fine, Balancing all weapons together is bad. Balancing Weapons within specific categories of weapon would be good. I believe Weapons that require an exotic feat should be better then a weapon that doesn't, but that all exotic weapon should be similar DPS (Within same type, melee/ranged/Finesse that is). Same applies for all slashing non finessable non offhand weapons that don't require a feat. Same for Piercing, then for blunt, then for finessable weapons. In essence, that the Khopesh and Dwarven Axes are better then the rest of the weapons is a good thing, they require a feat to use to be able to use them properly. That Bastard swords aren't is a problem. That a Kama is the same as a Sickle is a bad thing. That doesn't mean they should downgrade Khopesh or Dwarven axes, they should upgrade Bastard Swords instead - all 3 of those should be significantly better then a Scimitar or Longsword or BattleAxe.

As for grinding the shroud people are already getting bored with it. I think most dont even do it to craft on their mains they do it to have ingredients for their alts. What happens when they have crafted everything they can craft? THEY WILL LEAVE!! duh.

People are already bored with it. Making a change like this (Nerfing Khopeshes) will make them leave BEFORE they have crafted anything else because they will be mad for having to redo all that work just to rebuild to where they were. At least now, they still would stay for a while no?

As for all MMO's, once you've reached cap and have everything you need, you would probably leave or take long breaks. The key here is to make sure you get new things out before that happens. But when you nerf existing known facts in a certain way, you destroy trust from your customer base, and once you lost trust, there is very little you can do to regain it. Just like if you were playing table top and your DM decided that your toon was too powerfull, that he needed to kill it. If it was blatant that it was his intentions, would you start over with the same DM? I doubt that.

Seriously, i'd much rather the developpers focus on making new content, getting new items out, balancing fighting types, correcting the ranged issues, getting new classes/levels/enhancements out, fixing the AC problems before they tackle trying to balance weapon types, but that's just me
.

[Dracolich]

Sorry for jumping on ya Ilundel just I have loved this game since launch and seeing it go down hill makes me angry. I did not mean to take it out on you. I just feel strongly about why do they fix things that are broke or dont follow D&D rules but they purposly add things that fly in the face of rules.

Again sorry man and I will try to reign in my frustration.

[Ilundel]

No worries Draco, I read your post and figured the intent behind was really more for the love of the game and that it probably was frustation that was comming out.

As you could see, I'm really a lot more worried about the game and what a mass revamp of some weapons would cause to it in terms of mass player exodus. I really wasn't mad at you for giving my post some heat, just thought I should explain my resoning a bit better so you'd understand the thinking behind it is all

[boldarblood]

DUDE!! Half the friggin population has already left!! Where the **** have you been? If the remainder of the people leave because of a **** sword then boo friggin hoo. As far as I am concerned the Khopesh has been broke for far too long. Turbine clamors to fix miniscule "advantages" classes have like the monk healing ability they fixed, the soon to be barbarian fix which was needed. Why should a weapon be any different?

As for grinding the shroud people are already getting bored with it. I think most dont even do it to craft on their mains they do it to have ingredients for their alts. What happens when they have crafted everything they can craft? THEY WILL LEAVE!! duh.

Maybe this **** game needs to die, it has been on a feeding tube for a year now, its time to let it go to sleep. Put a pillow over its head and lets move on to something else with a D&D logo and halfassed rules that are fine as long as they suit you.

so quit.

[Mhykke]

DUDE!! Half the friggin population has already left!! Where the **** have you been? If the remainder of the people leave because of a **** sword then boo friggin hoo. As far as I am concerned the Khopesh has been broke for far too long. Turbine clamors to fix miniscule "advantages" classes have like the monk healing ability they fixed, the soon to be barbarian fix which was needed. Why should a weapon be any different?

As for grinding the shroud people are already getting bored with it. I think most dont even do it to craft on their mains they do it to have ingredients for their alts. What happens when they have crafted everything they can craft? THEY WILL LEAVE!! duh.

Maybe this **** game needs to die, it has been on a feeding tube for a year now, its time to let it go to sleep. Put a pillow over its head and lets move on to something else with a D&D logo and halfassed rules that are fine as long as they suit you.

I think you're getting worked up over nothing.

Plenty of people use other weapons than khopesh.

The khopesh is hardly game breaking, and definitely not anywhere close to what you're trying to represent them as.

He obviously loves the game and is just frustrated as he watches it die in his arms.

Loves it so much he's willing to kill it off rather than watch it live or die on its own. It's one thing to watch something die. It's another thing to plunge the knife in yourself.

[Lonewolfe]

so quit.

That is some powerful insight there Boldarboob. He obviously loves the game and is just frustrated as he watches it die in his arms. But I'm sure that now you have given him another option, all will be well again.

[Angelus_dead]

Just because a race/class can use a crappy weapon doesn't make it an advantage...

If that weapon had some benefit, it would be an advantage.

Advantage of kama: compatible with monk special powers
Advantage of Shuriken: compatible with monk special powers
Advantage of Shuriken: drow can get +2 above if they were using darts.

If we use that same arguement, a fighter can use a Dart, because of a class feat. A monk cannot... Is this an advantage to the fighter? No. Because the dart sucks.

And yet if you're alone with Arraetrikos and all you've got is a +5 Transmuting Dart, the fighter is better off.

[Wizzly_Bear]

Well, the bastard sword,

we've already agreed on this one

the Great Xbow,

has already had its damage upped. it wasnt a great weapon in pnp, its not a great weapon in real life, why should it be a great weapon in ddo?

the kama, the shuriken...

these are freely given to some. also, they fill specific uses, especially for the monk. if you want low dps so you can do effects without drawing aggro, you use use (or if youre a monk).

a weapon being inferior in one aspect does not automatically mean it should be enhanced. all weapons have some advantage (except b-swords, which has already been discussed)

A bump in great xbow firing rate or maybe a "destruction" feature (lowering ac or something) would be helpful.

why should a larger, more cumbersome crossbow fire faster than a regular one? and you can get destruction on them already.

A THF option for the bastard would be nice.

already been agreed upon. dead horse?

Maybe an added trip feature to kamas..

what rational would you use for this? they're small finesseable weapons. theyre meant for monks, not for tripping.

A multishot throw (like the bugbear assasins in the cerulean hills?) for shuriken would help them.

yes, that should be implemented, but not any of that bs about upping their damage and such.

and to the last point, the reason why the weaker options are available via a feat are for those that really want to use them but are not playing a drow or monk. that should not warrant making them stronger.

[RobbinB]

I think they should take a 2nd look at all the weapons and rebalance the base damage similar to the way they did with greensteel weapons. (I think they have already done this with great xbows to some degree.)

I would propose the base damage on regular and greensteel be the same. DPS-wise, greensteel weapons are already better than any weapon we could pull even if we include lvl 20 loot drops, so it wouldn't unbalance them in any way to do this. The actual base damage could then be adjusted to give a reasonable damage output for the weapon based on its proficiency requirements and other properties.

So most weapons, regular or greensteel, would have the original base damage applied in DDO which mostly came from PnP (eg. dagger 1-4, longsword, 1-8, rapier 1-6).

Base damage of certain other weapons would be adjusted to "fit" the realities of current DDO. So all greatswords might be 3-18 instead of the original 2-12. Bastard sword being 2-16 gives it a decided edge over a 1-8 khopesh for noncrittables; combined with the greater availability of this weapon it becomes a valid choice for many builds. I like the heavy repeater at 2-12, since this partially adjusts for the higher dps of bows due to bow strength. Light repeaters should stay at 1-8, they are again more readily available, lighter for low str builds, and may already or might be given a slightly higher rate of fire. Great xbows were already adjusted with a larger crit range (and higher base damage?). I'm not sure the adjustment was enough, some added effect (destruction idea is cool) or way to improve damage might be helpful for that weapon. Shurikens just plain suck, they should have a x3 critical, or ability to throw multiples, or higher rate of fire than other thrown weapons. Alternatively, there should be extremely cool unique shuriken named items or maybe they could link them to special assassin or dark-path monk poisoning abilities or something, anything to make them not completely useless. (Even on monks with the "thousand stars" ability shurikens are so useless it's not funny.)

[Lonewolfe]

I think you're getting worked up over nothing.

Plenty of people use other weapons than khopesh.

The khopesh is hardly game breaking, and definitely not anywhere close to what you're trying to represent them as.



Loves it so much he's willing to kill it off rather than watch it live or die on its own. It's one thing to watch something die. It's another thing to plunge the knife in yourself.

Like I said in an earlier post...if the dev's just want us to use a khopesh, dwarven axe or rapier, then go ahead and get rid of the rest of the weapons. Blunt weapons are all but extinct. And for the life of me, I can't possibly understand why any THW other than falchion has anything less than a x3 multiplier. Other than oozes and skele's, why ever even attempt to put a blunt weapon in your hand. Their crit range and multipliers are ****. I couldn't care less about any khopesh changes. I'd just like to see other weapons be changed so that they can possibly have a purpose in the game. If not, just save coding and space by deleting them all together. They have treated rapier's, heavy pick's and falchion's correctly by picking a multiplier that is related to the crit range. You wouldn't expect a rapier to do x4 with a 30% crit range, would you? So why do all blunt (expect maul, which originally was the same) weapons have 5% crit range and x2 multiplier. Its just weak.

If everyone quit because the khopesh was nerfed, so be it. I don't play this game because of one weapon. You can re-roll a better toon and cap him in 3 weeks without quitting your job or your family leaving you. Or you can grind the Shroud for another weapon and use a shard to respect the feat. That seems to be the dev's plan anyway. So if you choose to leave because of one weapon change, I won't miss you.

[Ilundel]

I do agree that it's silly having all Blunt weapon be at 20 x2 (Except Maul AND Warhammers) - their base damage should probably be better. But in all fairness, most blunt weapons are simple weapons, thus available to everyone including clerics with no fighter level. Hence why they are not as good as other weapons because they are available to more then just the straight melee classes.

If everyone quit because the khopesh was nerfed, so be it. I don't play this game because of one weapon. You can re-roll a better toon and cap him in 3 weeks without quitting your job or your family leaving you. Or you can grind the Shroud for another weapon and use a shard to respect the feat. That seems to be the dev's plan anyway. So if you choose to leave because of one weapon change, I won't miss you.

But your missing the point - it doesn't mean re-rolling 1 character or changing 1 feat and remaking 1 weapon. How about having to re-spec 5 melee characters, 3 of them with more then 2 green steel Khopeshes? How about wasting the equivalent of probably 85 - 100 shroud runs worth of effort if not more? How about people that are dual wielding more then 1 of those babies? How about the arsenal of Khopeshes you've amassed (while throwing away the scimitars) over the past 2 years?

I'm sure you won't miss the power gamers when they leave, or the casual player that has only been able to craft 1 shroud khopesh and is proud of it, until they nerf it down to a longsword. But you probably will miss the money that all of that business brought to the game. You'll probably miss the dev's when they loose their jobs or move on to another MMO that is more active. Open your eyes a minute, if everyone is using khopeshes as their main weapons and you take that down to be as good as a longsword, chance are everyone will have to redo their weapons right? How many do you think you will loose... i'm ready to bet that it will be a lot. If you loose that many players, the game can't stay alive so before your so quick into doing something of that magnitude, you might want to think about the effects it will have.

As I told Dracolich, it's not so much of a question of Khopesh itself, No one plays the game for 1 weapon really, but more a question of trust - a company that invalidates all the effort you've put into a game for the last <insert time here> is not worth you paying it right?

Not saying anything about it not being more powerfull, just saying that you've GOT to be carefull here about what your trying to do and where you would end up putting it. You really wouldn't want to upset more then half your player base would you?

[Wizzly_Bear]

[snip]

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