Do Barbarians do More Damage than Rangers?

[Ilundel]

Ranger's do out DPS barbarians on a favored enemy, but only IF:

They have the same to hit versus their enemies AC then the barbarian. (this is not the case most of the time)

They have power attack (not all rangers take it).

Basically Gunga, what i'm saying is that most of the rangers you run into are probably not pimped as much as your barbarian - They probably don't have enough to hit to be able to hit every mob on a 2 or more. If they don't, then there will be a huge difference between you hitting 95% of the time and them hitting 75% of the time. I guarantee that if you would consistently run with a Ranger that has the same gear and the same weapon you have against a favored enemy, you'd loose out. Given of course both are dual wielding DPS weapons. Seriously, the ideal way to compare is to run the math, but this has to include to hit with bonuses versus mob AC.

BTW, Rangers vs Barbarians, there's usually a net 4 points of to hit difference. Rangers being 32 str, Barbarian being 40 and most rangers having taken a Monk level and or rogue level for 2 more bab while taking a +2 to hit from enhancements versus their favored enemy. That can have a huge effect depending on what the AC of the mob is and when you can turn on Power Attack or turn it off (that is if the ranger even has it).

[Tolero]

*picks up thread and snuggles it* Hello Mr. Thread, you've had some naughty posting behavior in here haven't you? It'll be ok. If it keeps up, you'll get to take a magical journey to see the Gelatinous Cube! *pet pet*

As for the rest of you...

Keep it civil or get Cubed.

[vtecfiend99]

*picks up thread and snuggles it*.

ROFL are threads furry?

[Gunga]

The ranger in "ranger" doesn't mean ranged man. It's not really an anomaly with the class. the anomaly is with the lack of diversity in mobs at endgame. The only thing that is out of perspective is that Barbs need to be doing MORE dps with the crazy hp of mobs at endgame, I dont argue that barbs SHOULD do more damage that rangers in any circumstance. The argument is that they AREN"T at present time leading by enough of a margin to justify how much of a drain on a party they are. Especially when they cant be the kings of stat damage anymore come mod 9

Diversity is only part of the problem. Another problem is that the favored enemy choice is far too broad. You're an expert in killing iguanas, so you can kill alligators with the same ease? Garbage.

[Tolero]

ROFL are threads furry?

Well they can get hairy

[vtecfiend99]

Diversity is only part of the problem. Another problem is that the favored enemy choice is far too broad. You're an expert in killing iguanas, so you can kill alligators with the same ease? Garbage.

That might be an argument better suited to the 3.5 discussion board on WoTC site? Favored choices are what they are man.

[Gunga]

Did Wooley just get pwned by Tolero?! Hillarious.


Reported.

[vtecfiend99]

Did Wooley just get pwned by Tolero?! Hillarious.


Reported.

um. i'm pretty sure the whole thread got pwned including you.


reported what? man u like saying that....

[Tolero]

Take it outside you two *thumps you both*

[vtecfiend99]

point taken

[bobbryan2]

It's obviously quite hard for me to fathom how a dps class gets out dps'd by a ranged specialist. But compounding the confusion is the fact that I play mostly barbarians and pwn most of the rangers I run with. I'd go roll a str ranger to experience this anamoly for myself, but I'm wrapped up in too many other builds right now, and by the time I get to it, Turbine will probably get things back into proper perspective.

Run with better rangers?

I haven't run with a barbarian that can pull aggro off me in a long long time. But they also take 3x the healing I do.

Even without the aggro!

[Desteria]

I was figuring, since the Ranger was still winning out.

That's interesting though. Ranger still wins out unless the barbarian activates both frenzies.

Which is NO supprise to me at all since I've been saying for a long tiem a ranger beats a barb on DPS .......
FB should change that but at a cost of a TONE of self damage....
BUT will tampest 3 change it back the other way??? what about adding the 5th favored enimy bost!!!!!, (i know by it self the 5th favored cant beat the FB rages)...
How will ranger adn barb capstones effect this....

ATM rangers beat barbs period

FB current look has barbs beating rangers at a cost of a tone of self damage...

[Desteria]

Ranger's strength:

18 + 6 (item) + 4 (level ups) + 2 (tome) + 2 (Ram's Might) +2 Rage (spell or pot)= 34 Strength


Not that it makes a big differnce, but Ranger's strength should be at 34 and not 32. My ranger is almost permanently raged with either Rage pots or the rage spell on him. That's not even taking into consideration Madstone rage on top of it.

He didn't calculate the rages from pots or boots or choker because those are available to both classes very very easily and simply add numbers that dont matter because it's a 1:1 comparison if both have them.

Tecnicaly it;s a 1:1.1 ratio becasue of tempest haste BUT that only a minor gain for the ranger then wehn you look at FB crit mutipliers they would gain SOME amount as well as they get that extra str mroe often, to lazzy to do the actual math atm.

[sephiroth1084]

Yes... lots of drawbacks.

But I don't think they compete with -900 damage/turn. Wouldn't that be something in a pnp game. Combined with deathless frenzy... might make for a few good suicide attacks.

Actually, I think the PnP Frenzied Berserker would come pretty **** close to doing 900 damage in a round.

18
+5 lvls
+6 item
+5 tome
+4 rage
+10 frenzy
+2 reckless rage (feat out of Races of Stone)
________________
50 Str (+20)



+5 enhancement(+5 2-handed weapon) + 25 Str +100 PA (Leap Attack) = 135

x5 attacks = 675 without weapon damage, or any special modifiers to damage (like holy, bane, whatever), and the PnP FB would have no issue with using a Vicious weapon, since he cannot die from anything but Disintegrate basically while frenzied (just hope the cleric can deliver enough healing to you before your frenzy ends).

Leap Attack doubles your PA damage (or increases the multiplier by 1 in the case of the FB's Supreme PA, as I read it...could mean more damage if read differently) as long as you jump 10 ft. at an opponent first. (feat out of Complete Adventurer)

Shock Trooper is a feat that lets you subtract from your AC rather than your attack bonus when using PA on a charge. (feat out of Complete Warrior)

And there are numerous ways to get a full attack at the end of a charge, but I would go with the lvl 1 barbarian alternate class feature (Unearthed Arcana maybe, or maybe Complete Champion) that let's you drop fast movement for the Pounce ability.

[Desteria]

Actually, I think the PnP Frenzied Berserker would come pretty **** close to doing 900 damage in a round.

18
+5 lvls
+6 item
+5 tome
+4 rage
+10 frenzy
+2 reckless rage (feat out of Races of Stone)
________________
50 Str (+20)



+5 enhancement(+5 2-handed weapon) + 25 Str +100 PA (Leap Attack) = 135

x5 attacks = 675 without weapon damage, or any special modifiers to damage (like holy, bane, whatever), and the PnP FB would have no issue with using a Vicious weapon, since he cannot die from anything but Disintegrate basically while frenzied (just hope the cleric can deliver enough healing to you before your frenzy ends).

Leap Attack doubles your PA damage (or increases the multiplier by 1 in the case of the FB's Supreme PA, as I read it...could mean more damage if read differently) as long as you jump 10 ft. at an opponent first. (feat out of Complete Adventurer)

Shock Trooper is a feat that lets you subtract from your AC rather than your attack bonus when using PA on a charge. (feat out of Complete Warrior)

And there are numerous ways to get a full attack at the end of a charge, but I would go with the lvl 1 barbarian alternate class feature (Unearthed Arcana maybe, or maybe Complete Champion) that let's you drop fast movement for the Pounce ability.

Ah yess the build the broke 3.5....

hehe ya the lion thing for pounce has isses in 3.5....

I know this build well sicne i had designed a charater almost exacly like that....

[Cold_Stele]

I have a couple of Barbs and a Ranger so I want to stress I'm coming from neutral ground in this post.

Firstly Ram's - I manage to keep Ram's on around 99% of the time - even on my Barb10/Rgr6. Whilst Raging also of course.

On the way to Hound is the only real exception (on my Ranger, because I'm not raging, it's no trouble to keep spamming Ram's, even if I know I'm going to only have it on for 30 seconds or so before it's dispelled again).

Secondly IMHO the real difference between the two basically boils down to this, when away from a cleric -

Ranger = alive
Barb = dead

If I forget and play my Barb the way I play my Ranger, I get ganked big time.

[noinfo]

Why not remove favored enemies and summon nature's ally too?

Well I don't remember summon natures ally being calculated into anything anyway so yeah why not, it is a spell after all.

Strange though favoured enemy isn't a clicky, with it I just swing my sword and do lots of damage :-) [really fast like :-)]