Shroud Normal

[GlassCannon]

I'm in... You'll probably have to wait until saturday tho... I think I put 6 characters on timer yesterday.

The other ones are characters that are UNDEREQUIPPED and ILL-SUITED to running the shroud, so I BRING APPROPRIATE CHARACTERS to the raid.


Umm.. Was that too blatant?

Actually, that's how you're supposed to run the raid: Underequipped and ill-suited.

It's supposed to equip you in the process of you grinding at it 20 times.

[GlassCannon]

Hm....want to run a shroud tonight and die so I can try this out on you? Sounds like fun...if clicking it 10 times kills you 10 times, you'd wake up naked in part 5 when we finally started. Could be good for a laugh.

Definitely


Once I get this website built.

[Junts]

I didn't notice any stealth changes, only the known which were released in the patch notes.

I have been on runs BEFORE the patch where Red moves around a lot in pt 4. One run I remember he hunted a caster with no mercy into a few different corners lol. Poor guy couldn't get away

there remains one perfectly reliable way to move him off the center if for some reason you think you need to, too, without fail, every time.

rarely, however, do you need to, though depending where he goes it can increase your dps in a given round as you wont need to lose 15% of the time to getting out when blades come in.

[Mindspat]

The Shroud is no different for you all. We had 2 newbies in the PuG and they were right ****ed off.

OK, you're rant is starting to make more sense. You pug'd it and had at least 2 players who've never ran it before. Did you remind the new players that completion is a reward, not a right?

[Mindspat]

there remains one perfectly reliable way to move him off the center if for some reason you think you need to, too, without fail, every time.

rarely, however, do you need to, though depending where he goes it can increase your dps in a given round as you wont need to lose 15% of the time to getting out when blades come in.

On the count of three: Heave! Ho! Heave! Ho!

Put your backs into it!

[Junts]

On the count of three: Heave! Ho! Heave! Ho!

Put your backs into it!

cast sleet storm!

he will move outside the area of effect, every time, even if its just a scroll.

you need to do it once a round, though (he reappears in the middle when he comes back), and if your melees dont have freedom on, they'll hate you with a passion, but buffing fom and sleeting him out to the edges is a common tactic for non-normal shrouds, as you can stay in against him longer and fight less devils.

my bard will probably always fom the party before shrining in 3 and carry scrolls of it, though

[GlassCannon]

OK, you're rant is starting to make more sense. You pug'd it and had at least 2 players who've never ran it before. Did you remind the new players that completion is a reward, not a right?

Even so, a solid party that can complete Hound and potentially VoD(that's really pushing it though, you kind of need Shroud weapons to complete that one too... and that's also assuming that one of our clerics was hiding his inner powergamer) should be able to handle Shroud.



Newbies and New Characters that don't have Greensteel coming out of every orifice should be able to complete this.

[GlassCannon]

cast sleet storm!

he will move outside the area of effect, every time, even if its just a scroll.

you need to do it once a round, though (he reappears in the middle when he comes back), and if your melees dont have freedom on, they'll hate you with a passion, but buffing fom and sleeting him out to the edges is a common tactic for non-normal shrouds, as you can stay in against him longer and fight less devils.

my bard will probably always fom the party before shrining in 3 and carry scrolls of it, though

Forget FoM, just cast Heightened Extended Sleet Storm and Grease everywhere. Your party will love it!

[Junts]

Even so, a solid party that can complete Hound and potentially VoD(that's really pushing it though, you kind of need Shroud weapons to complete that one too... and that's also assuming that one of our clerics was hiding his inner powergamer) should be able to handle Shroud.



Newbies and New Characters that don't have Greensteel coming out of every orifice should be able to complete this.

did you play this game when people took weeks to master the shroud to achieve the first completion?


DDO RAIDS ARE HARD

the level cap hasn't even gone up - the power of a non-shroud-equipped character has barely changed from the day the shroud was released

of course it's hard.

[Angelus_dead]

did you play this game when people took weeks to master the shroud to achieve the first completion?

For your information, the first completion of The Shroud was 4 days after module 6 launched. It would've been 3 days, but some people had to work. And the first day had so much downtime, it hardly counts as really launched yet.

[Junts]

For your information, the first completion of The Shroud was 4 days after module 6 launched. It would've been 3 days, but some people had to work. And the first day had so much downtime, it hardly counts as really launched yet.

hum, for some reason i was told it took a long ass time (i guess t he teller told me it took them a long ass time)

it too quite a while to be puggable regularly, didn't it?

[GlassCannon]

hum, for some reason i was told it took a long ass time (i guess t he teller told me it took them a long ass time)

it too quite a while to be puggable regularly, didn't it?

On argonessen, there were PuGs for it within the second week, completing it with great resource expenditure.

[Osharan_Tregarth]

Actually, that's how you're supposed to run the raid: Underequipped and ill-suited.

It's supposed to equip you in the process of you grinding at it 20 times.

Ummm.. No. Not really.

I can't speak for everyone else, as my gameplay habits are considered "odd" by a lot of my guild's standards...


But I have one(1) fully upgraded greensteel weapon, and it's on my ac tank. And he doesn't get used as a main tank in the shroud... People would rather have my dps ranger. Who uses plain old boring transmuting dwarven ax's on my boss fights.

I have one(1) spellpoint/cha item done, and it's on my sorc.

The other four or five characters that I run the shroud with, are equipped with other stuff. Transmuters, greater evil outsider bane, lots of cold iron arrows, etc.

All stuff that's gotten by chest pulls, not shroud crafting.

Thus my point....

People need to get the gear that's useful for the raids, not just think they can jump into the raid and succeed with their normal everyday quest running gear.

Back to my original point.. I'd expect that almost every quest in the game can be done by almost any random hodgepodge of level appropriate people, at least on normal.

I expect that raids need to have some careful, well thought out gear and characters if you are going to succeed without already having the gear you can get from that raid.

[GlassCannon]

I expect that raids need to have some careful, well thought out gear and characters if you are going to succeed without already having the gear you can get from that raid.

Gear that requires miracle loot rolls or at least 1 year of playtime, a minimum of 20 hours/week, and an understanding of the DDO Combat system that borders on Dungeon Master... gotcha.

So Raids are not for the average gamer, and new players shouldn't even think of going near them. Gotcha.

Essentially, Raids are a Veteran or Powergamer-only thing that casual newbies should avoid like a plague. Understood, loud and clear.

When I form up a Raid and the LFM says "NO NEW PLAYERS OR CHARACTERS", I fully expect complete understanding from the entire userbase.

[Nott]

Newbies and New Characters that don't have Greensteel coming out of every orifice should be able to complete this.

I'll assume that by "newbies" you really mean people who have never been in the shroud, but are otherwise competent. Is that a fair assumption?

If so... well, news flash: they can. Not the first attempt, and probably not the 10th attempt. Bottom line though is if they can eventually get past part 1, they can all get the first tier of Greensteel. This makes it easier to get past part two (though greensteel isn't a requirement for that part). Once they get past part two, part three can be done naked. Now all of these people can earn tier two upgrades.

Are you seeing the point? I'm not sure you are since you've already ignored it. If you think people without some level of gear should be able to complete a raid (whose learning curve provides that gear), I'd be interested in knowing your reasoning (though I don't hold much expectation that you can convince anyone).

[Osharan_Tregarth]

Gear that requires miracle loot rolls or at least 1 year of playtime, a minimum of 20 hours/week, and an understanding of the DDO Combat system that borders on Dungeon Master... gotcha.

So Raids are not for the average gamer, and new players shouldn't even think of going near them. Gotcha.

Essentially, Raids are a Veteran or Powergamer-only thing that casual newbies should avoid like a plague. Understood, loud and clear.

When I form up a Raid and the LFM says "NO NEW PLAYERS OR CHARACTERS", I fully expect complete understanding from the entire userbase.

Did you read what I posted my ranger uses? transmuting dwarven axes... Hit up the house D broker on any saturday or sunday...

Nothing in what I posted requires too much grinding... It does require some thought out purchases in advance, in order to bring the correct tools for the correct job.

Well, it's obvious to me that your point of view differs from mine, and you don't seem to be wavering at all. So there's not much point in attempting to discuss things further, since that doesn't seem to be the goal of your postings here.

Have fun with your future raiding stuff.

[Junts]

no raid on ddo is gonna be beaten by a party of people who dont know the quest or its challenges; they a re designed for foreknowledge, planning and practice

velah: bridges go boom fall far etc
marilith: knockdown
titan: pillars, gun, etc, we know how this went
reaver: fly, levers, puzzle, on the time limit
shroud: difficulty and items needed f or harryfights
hound: dog charm mechanic, spawn p ointsfor flayers etc
vod: aggro control, how mobs spawn etc

raids are supposed to require a lot of practice, its their design

[dragonofsteel2]

First - Fabrication. I used to see Misses due to Displacement. DBF ignores Displace. I have an active Combat Log below my Focus Orb 20 lines in length. I speedread. You probably never checked the log, just thought that since you were getting hit so often you might not be gaining from Displacement. I admit, those fireballs do get right through and tricked me for a while, but I guarantee that before this update Displacement did work.

Second - His attack range was silly as I last recalled, twice his height in range, but hitting someone on the back wall from the other side of the area with melee attacks? Probably lag, but maybe a bugged hitbox too.

Third - The blades used to just slowly move around and gave you a chance to dodge them, now they move around like a Hasted Monk 16. Yes, I was said Monk and they did indeed move around much like I did - fast as hell.

Also, Hard? Maybe for a time Hard is the new Normal. I recall a few other quests wherein the difficulty was reversed for a while due to minor tweaks...

Additionally, the Fog tricks should not be made mandatory, but they do indeed help.

LMAO checked his trueseeing like 2 or 3 month out had Barb with no ac go in with displacement never once did get that message turn off all other logs to see just him hits and misses against me none of my attacks agianst him, open it up look through whole log not one displacement in it. This was not one time thing did couple times to make sure did not make a mistake. Although if had concealment up he will miss because that Trueseeing does not stop concealment. Second part you right its the lag the blades and mobs been hitting from across the room lots, also makes blades seem faster this more performance issue.


Second tired seeing oh its because got the uber weapons its so easy, nah p its practice and skill we had to get them weapons through beating the raid repeatedly. If talking about the mobs coming at you right away it the way suppose to be come on you die with him giving a speech about his guys kicking your butt. (This was kind widespread exploit that Trubine did nothing about.) Think suppose to get time to run over and get rdy for the fight?? Must the other issue people complaining about seem to be lag issues, would like to see these address soon.

Gear that requires miracle loot rolls or at least 1 year of playtime, a minimum of 20 hours/week, and an understanding of the DDO Combat system that borders on Dungeon Master... gotcha.

So Raids are not for the average gamer, and new players shouldn't even think of going near them. Gotcha.

Essentially, Raids are a Veteran or Powergamer-only thing that casual newbies should avoid like a plague. Understood, loud and clear.

When I form up a Raid and the LFM says "NO NEW PLAYERS OR CHARACTERS", I fully expect complete understanding from the entire userbase.

Understanding the combat system is the point accomplishing goals, the 20hours week not a need. If you good player 5-10hours a week is plenty to get gear. Yes it will take you longer then others that play more, but will get it sooner or later. Yes these means newbies and casual players can get involve in raids if they enjoy them. Though running to the boards about raid that is not super hard in my opinion just sounds like whining. Though maybe had bad day and some lag and other factors cause a lose. Now if Tribune really did make this raid that much harder sure I will see it next couple try have out there, first one did was with twink out guy so he not much tell tell sign.

[QuantumFX]

Glasscannon,

It doesn't require any arcane or high level weaponry to effectively deliver a beatdown to Harry.

Last I checked:

You can bypass Harry's DR with a ML:2 weapon if it's a +1 Silver <insert favorite melee weapon> of Pure Good.

Transmutating weapons are ML: 4 and often available in the House D weapon brokers. Do you know what the difference is between a +1 Transmutating Kopesh and a Supreme Tyrant Kopesh of Mineral when attacking Harry? +4 more to hit, +6 more pre crit damage and 2d6+1d4 post crit damage.

Any paladin capable of casting level 4 spells can create a +5 Holy Burst weapon capable of delivering all red numbers to Harry. Weapons created by the Holy Sword spell can keep up with Green Steel weapons.

Any ranger with tier 2 House D favor can stock up on ammo to bypass the material portion of his DR. (Silver) Then the ranger only needs to come up with a ML:2 pure good or ML:4 holy bow. Also, a ML:6 longbow is more than capable of keeping up with a Supreme Commander Greensteel longbow. It's called the Silver Longbow and could have been found by any archer while levelling up. In fact if the ranger has sufficent STR it can keep up with Supreme Tyrant bows.

[CSFurious]

so the first time someone goes into a quest, they are supposed to succeed?

once again, get a clue

i pull weapons almost every day in an hour or two of playtime that will hurt Harry

you should spend more time teaching these newbs how to play instead of spouting nonsense on the forums

Gear that requires miracle loot rolls or at least 1 year of playtime, a minimum of 20 hours/week, and an understanding of the DDO Combat system that borders on Dungeon Master... gotcha.

So Raids are not for the average gamer, and new players shouldn't even think of going near them. Gotcha.

Essentially, Raids are a Veteran or Powergamer-only thing that casual newbies should avoid like a plague. Understood, loud and clear.

When I form up a Raid and the LFM says "NO NEW PLAYERS OR CHARACTERS", I fully expect complete understanding from the entire userbase.