What I am tired seeing NERF!!!!!!!!!!

[dragonofsteel2]

It just get so tired of seeing this word if some class or build doing something someone feels is not in line with there ideas. Sorry instead of NERF, can we have some forward thinking to bring the balance back. Lets say help the following behind classes with new armor, enchantments and other. Why do we have to kill someone else build to help others did not think of them always?? Can we just help these classes with new items/ enchantments and other abilities to get them back in line. That one thing the game made mistake time and time again nerfing classes. Think of ways to make your class better and stop yelling and shouting about this person build is to good blah blah blah. If they or following the rules the game set a side they do not need to get hit by the NERF stick.

This just my opinion do not really care what other think, but must the time people yelling nerf just mad they can not create a character that is that good. If you nerf that character, that person will just make new toon that kicks butt while that person yelling nerf will start all over again with there NERF shouts.

Also run the risk that person good at making builds is just tired every build they think up gets slap down, because some think them following the rules is wrong. In turn just turn another player away.

So in turn if your shouts with stop with this nerf and start with can help my following behind build, I would understand more. This means just want to improve the fun in the game for yourself and stop wanting to take the fun in the game for others away.

[alchilito]

dear devs: nerf gondore

thanks

[Beherit_Baphomar]

I tried to read the OP, I really did.

Are you mad about a nerf or are you mad about people calling it a nerf when its actually (in your humble opinion) a game balancing change?

[Beherit_Baphomar]

dear devs: nerf gondore

thanks

Seriously, Gondore needs nerfed.

Dev's, log into Argo, play with Gondore and nerf everything about his build please.

[dragonofsteel2]

Seriously, Gondore needs nerfed.

Dev's, log into Argo, play with Gondore and nerf everything about his build please.

I agree that gondore needs a big giant NERF.

I tried to read the OP, I really did.

Are you mad about a nerf or are you mad about people calling it a nerf when its actually (in your humble opinion) a game balancing change?

Nah just other ways then Nerfing toons to get balance. Part it is they people yelling nerf on the forums. It gets annoying a bit reading nerf w/p , barb's , ranger/monks ect... To me just saying kill there toon so I can feel better. I believe in game balance though think should always work to that goal. I just think going backward with Nerfs is the wrong approach. ( In gondores humble opinion).

[TK.Halcyon]

I agree that gondore needs a big giant NERF.



Nah just other ways then Nerfing toons to get balance. Part it is they people yelling nerf on the forums. It gets annoying a bit reading nerf w/p , barb's , ranger/monks ect... To me just saying kill there toon so I can feel better. I believe in game balance though think should always work to that goal. I just think going backward with Nerfs is the wrong approach. ( In gondores humble opinion).

No they should nerf anything they feel like. I mean i intentionally spent hours and hours grinding out a character to fit a specific build type based on the available rule set. I spent ALL THIS TIME so that they can nerf it cos someone feels it makes them look bad or a quest too easy.

Next time I will roll a warforged sorc with an 18 int and a 18 wis and they should nerf every other build and quest so that my sorc can melee the reaver .....

[Milolyen]

What I am tired of seeing is the call for devs to stop nerfing classes by bringing other classes up to their power lvl AND THEN also see where people complain about blanket immunities, the ungodly number of hps trash mobs have, and blah blah blah.

Things not balanced at the moment:

AC - currently monk splashes are king here wearing robes and a heavy armor and shield wearing can not hope to attain that lvl. But we don't want to NERF monks so lets bring S&B up to their lvl mean while we still have to make things challenging so everything under a 60ac is basically equal to 1 ac.

Crit rage and tempest - currently the number 1 way to kill things not through dps but through stat dmgers and if it was not for red/purple named immunities (that most people seem to hate) they would be the ONLY way to kill things. Pretty much anything done here will be seen as a nerf. So hey lets give mobs a 60 - 80 con that way it will be a bit more of a challenge to kill them with WoP but oh wait that means they will have double to triple the number of hps meaning we will have to get like 3x better weapons than greensteel to make dps a viable option. Okay so instead of the + hp modifier lets make it a - hp modifier. Oh but wait that means that a larger chunk of hps will be lost for every -2 con dmg not really changing anything. So .... how do we bring other forms of dps up to current power lvls, without makeing everything to easy, without nerfing Crit rage, tempest or WoP, without introducing even more powerfull dps weapons and without going further away from pnp rules that people love so much?


Milolyen

[GlassCannon]

What I am tired of seeing is the call for devs to stop nerfing classes by bringing other classes up to their power lvl AND THEN also see where people complain about blanket immunities, the ungodly number of hps trash mobs have, and blah blah blah.

Things not balanced at the moment:

AC - currently monk splashes are king here wearing robes and a heavy armor and shield wearing can not hope to attain that lvl. But we don't want to NERF monks so lets bring S&B up to their lvl mean while we still have to make things challenging so everything under a 60ac is basically equal to 1 ac.


Crit rage and tempest - currently the number 1 way to kill things not through dps but through stat dmgers and if it was not for red/purple named immunities (that most people seem to hate) they would be the ONLY way to kill things. Pretty much anything done here will be seen as a nerf. So hey lets give mobs a 60 - 80 con that way it will be a bit more of a challenge to kill them with WoP but oh wait that means they will have double to triple the number of hps meaning we will have to get like 3x better weapons than greensteel to make dps a viable option. Okay so instead of the + hp modifier lets make it a - hp modifier. Oh but wait that means that a larger chunk of hps will be lost for every -2 con dmg not really changing anything. So .... how do we bring other forms of dps up to current power lvls, without makeing everything to easy, without nerfing Crit rage, tempest or WoP, without introducing even more powerfull dps weapons and without going further away from pnp rules that people love so much?


Milolyen

Looks like you got the #'s backward on the CON loss affecting HP... if the HD are lowered to a d2 or a d4 to accomodate for an 80 CON(and a -30 to Fort Save to balance that ungodly CON out), the HP loss would be eqivalent to a +1 Repeating Light Crossbow hitting said monster, not a major loss of HP really...

Yes, HP totals need to drop. The highest DPS in the game should be able to 1-hit or 1-round at least, the biggest non-raid bosses out there. The moderate DPS builds should not need to take 3 minutes to kill 1 Frost Giant on Normal. That's freaking ridiculous.


Also, I stress over and over that the Monk AC Bonus should equal the % of Monk the class has, not a full bonus for only 1 level. This is game-breaking(especially with Dodge bonuses having no cap currently... IMHO Dodge needs to cap at either a +3 total bonus or a +5 total bonus, and yes a +3 would affect the Raiments directly).


On a thread-related side topic, having 9 Shroud items at Tier 3 should affect the Dungeon CR... if someone has that much time on their hands, they probably have every item in the game and can afford the uber Silver Flame potions that they have access to, thus justifying a boost to the difficulty for their equipment level. As for people who carry every piece of weaponry they have on their character, they should not be so harshly penalized.

[Randolf_Drake]

It is a shame when people start looking at the game...

Then they start to realize there is no balance in anything that is currently in the game.

I just wonder where all of the game mechanics went to...

Something just didnt sit right with me when I realized my + to hit was 4 times what my BAB is...

Everything in the game does not add up when you look at it.

I suggest just playing the game and not complaining, cause changing it at this point would result in DDO 2 :P

[Mindspat]

This just my opinion do not really care what other think...

What ever you say Miss Priss.

[Borror0]

It gets annoying a bit reading nerf w/p , barb's , ranger/monks ect... To me just saying kill there toon so I can feel better. I believe in game balance though think should always work to that goal. I just think going backward with Nerfs is the wrong approach. ( In gondores humble opinion).

There are a few factor to consider when developing an MMO:

• 1. Social aspect of the game
  A huge selling point of nearly any MMO out there is the social interaction. Strengthening that interaction between players is a good thing. In fact, that is what makes MMO's different from single player games. If there is a deterrent to grouping, it should be addressed if possible.
  
  
• 2. Verisimilitude
  Players like some amount of logic in their fantasy game. It makes no sense to them if the Wizard class is awesome at melee combat but is horrible at casting spells. There are some notions that makes the game what it is. If a change creates a ridiculous situation, it should be addressed.
  
  
• 3. Fun
  A change can create a situation where the game is no longer fun. I doubt I have to elaborate much on that one.
  
  
• 4. Time
  Balancing via non-nerf (in its colloquial meaning) could be way too time consuming that it wouldn't be worth the efforts put in it.
  
  
• 5. Technical limitations
  Available technologies may not allow a solution to exist or would cause too much lag.
  
  
• 6. Simplicity
  If a solution is too complicated to understand by the players, it should most likely be discarded as it would be a turn off for many players.
  
  
• 7. Limit to the power level an feature should have
  If addressing an issue means introducing a feature of a power level much higher than anything ever seen before, then the means to address that issue should be revisited. An example of that would be adding a +5 Mithril Tower Shield with a +25 Dodge AC bonus on it. Or, the creation of 10,000 HP characters.
  
  It's not in the area D&D characters are at. It's a totally different game.
  
  
• 8. Continuity
  Changing the game too drastically, all of a sudden is an incredibly bad idea as SWG's NGE have proved. Players play the game for a reason. If a player would desire to play a different game, they would play a different game. There are many things that gives a special feel to every good game. Be careful if you play with them.
  
  
• 9. Diversity
  There are limits to how much you can customize your character. The more 'must-haves' there are, the less customization there is. The more cookie-cutter builds get. To many people, the capacity to make your 'own' character is very important. If you make it that there is only one way to do it, it's not good design. Even if things are balanced. You must leave room to preference.

Sometimes, nerfing is the best way to go back to these criteria.

Inflation is one thing that creates a lot of problem. It can hurt the social aspect of the game, mostly in the case of AC where casual gamers cannot compete with powergamers. If the gap is big enough, it makes it impossible for the two type of players to play together. If that gap becomes too great, then it's the fun factor that is involved, the game will have become unpleasant for at least one of the playstyle. Either too easy for the powergamers, or too hard for the casual gamers.

Sometimes, a feature or a combination of feature add up together and end up being too powerful. So powerful that if you want to balance all classes back together it will be very time consuming. Then, you will have to rebalance content because it will be too easy.

If you let the inflation go too far, we will have 300 ACs. Critical hits for 2,000 damage. That's not very D&D-like, nor very healthy.

If you just add more and more stuff, you might be caught with overly linear builds.

There are a couple examples I could give, but I hope that is clear enough. While nerfing isn't a really fun thing to do, it sometimes has to be done. While buffing will make the players feel good for a while and might get a little more subscription, in the long run you are simply harming the game.

[Angelus_dead]

There are a few factor to consider when developing an MMO:

U responded srsly to Srs Thread! U loose.

[jmonty]

nerf and gimp are two words that are used way to often and improperly 'round these parts.